VR6 running issue with video - fixed :shock:

[zak 0]

I have changed the head gasket and got the car up and running, i ended up doing a comprehensive freshen up at the same time and also completed the following work:

 

Rebuilt head including news guides, stem seals, relapped valves, skim and new tappets

New chains, guides and tensioners

New Clutch

New crack pipe and oil cooler hoses

 

After starting the car for the first time there wasn

[Toad 0]

At this point i scanned for fault codes and it showed a fault with the intake temp sensor........

 

A quick search on the forum brought up that it was common for the wiring for the intake temp sensor and the black water temp sensor on the thermostat housing to be confused with each other and for the wiring to be connected incorrectly.

 

So to conclude I

[zak 0]

it was only running for a few minutes at most without coolant, nothing substantial.

 

Could the maf be faulty even though its not coming up as an error code on vag com? Something is causing the overfuelling and theres not much left to change!

[pete_griff 0]

it was only running for a few minutes at most without coolant, nothing substantial.

 

Could the maf be faulty even though its not coming up as an error code on vag com? Something is causing the overfuelling and theres not much left to change!

 

that's unlucky my friend, i guess whatever your problem is it must be exactly the same as mine, being as mine persisted after doing my head gasket. i labelled up all my connectors with insulation tape when i removed them, so my wiring should all be in the right place.

 

short of the maf/injectores or something along those lines i can't think what else it would be either. mine had a new coilpack, plugs and leads and was still doing it - difficult one. please keep us all posted, i'm obviously especially interested as well.

 

really hope you manage to get it all sorted buddy...

[mattkh 0]

Could the maf be faulty even though its not coming up as an error code on vag com? !

Hi

Use some mild carb cleaner to clean the maf sensor to rule it out.

[zak 0]

Pete i'm confident that the wiring is all correct now, regarding the injectors i have a few spare that antonio_b12 lent me so i might try them but i don't think it will make a difference.

 

I fitted a new vag lambda earlier this year so i can't see that causing any issues its just he maf left really. Will cleaning it really help? it may just be operating out of its range and thats why its not coming up on vag com. I have the 6 pin maf which is quite expensive so i would like to confirm its the maf for sure before i change it. Its quite annoying now as the cars been of the road for a month now!

[fla 9]

Mmm, you're not having much luck, Zak. Overfuelling could be a combination of things - check the fpr at the end of the fuel reail, if there is a problem, more fuel will be chucked down to compensate.

Re the smoke, what colour is it? If its white then it may just be condensate in the exhaust system being evaporated, which may happen if the ca has been standing for a few days in this weather. Have you cleaned out the injectors? If not, get some carb cleaner spray and pulse teh injector open with a 1.5V battery and spray the carb cleaner through it. What about the seals for the injectors? Did you change them? Have a sniff around the injector area to rule that out.

What about teh head bolt tightening sequence, i assume this was correct and that the torque was right too? I'll send you a copy of the sequhnece from Benrly if you need.

Also, pull the plugs and have a look at the sparks, maybe clean them up a bit and see what they look like again after a run.

Give teh MAF a good old spray with carb clener too - there is sufficienet distance from the spray point to not damage the wire. also, check for any air leaks in the whole intake system.

[dr_mat 0]

MAF - Will cleaning it really help? it may just be operating out of its range and thats why its not coming up on vag com. I have the 6 pin maf which is quite expensive so i would like to confirm its the maf for sure before i change it. Its quite annoying now as the cars been of the road for a month now!

 

Yes it could well be the MAF, but try another one, there's usually a couple up on ebay for not too much. More likely is an air leak post-MAF, pre-lambda, causing the lamdba to read low and the ECU pumps more fuel in. You could also have a stuck/faulty injector or a bad ECU. (Does only one cylinder overfuel?)

 

Bear in mind it's normal for a VR6 to stink and run rich for the first few minutes on a cold start. You need to wait till it's been running for a good ten minutes and the idle has dropped right down to ~650 rpm before making any decisions about how well it's running.

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

have you had it on the road yet and put some miles on it?

[zak 0]

James no not had it on the road yet its still in my garage, if i did it would leave a smokescreen behind me so don't think its possible unless i wake up early and do it while the neighbours are asleep :lol: But the smoke is similar to before,

 

this is when the car is cold

 

and this is after 5-10mins of running :eek:

 

 

Dr Mat I'm going to pick up a maf later so will try that and see if it makes any difference, ive already swapped the ecu to a known working one.

 

Hassan. the head was torqued correctly, i used the sequence i found on here and that was the same as the russian technical site. Will the fpr make a difference? do you know how much they are? I haven't changed the plugs but i did clean them up when i replaced them. As for air leaks i can't see anything obvious and theres only so many places there could be a leak.

 

I'll be doing a a more in depth fault finding investigation tommorow so hopefully will be able to to trace the problem otherwise :brickwall:

[RedTyphoon 0]

Hi. I had similar problem but much worse. Try to check that big connector located near auxiliary water pump. Disconnect it and apply some contact cleaner. Ive spent a lot of time to find out whats wrong,changed everything i can. It was just bad contact. But not sure if you have same problem. Good luck!!!

[PROVR6 0]

The smoke on start up up dosen't look too bad, on warmp up it does. When I first got my car it smoked similar but had stood for 4 months without being driven. Turned out it was a clogged fuel filter and needed a good run. Have you tried checking the coolant tank with a headgasket tester for exhaust fumes in the coolant? Maybe your new headgasket hasn't sealed.

[zak 0]

well the maf didnt work.... next :brickwall:

 

i put my hand up against the exhaust and the fumes felt wet, not sure if that makes any difference?

 

Regarding the head gasket i was thinking the same, where can i get a tester from?

[fla 9]

Was it wet as in petrol or condensate? After 5-10 minutes the temperature in teh exhaust is high enough to evaoparate any reesidual water (assuming its not been standing for 3 months or so) and any unburnt fuel. Do the exhaust fumes smell at all? Of petrol, i mean? Check the jubilee clips either side of the maf and that the air inlet pipe joining to the MAF housing is not split. You've checked it before i know, but just open the water header tank running the engine to see if you get any pressure buildup, or foaming, just to confirm teh new gasket is okay, although i cant see that as being a problem. This is a weird one. Perhaps drop Haywire a pm - i'm sure he'll give you some good pointers.

[Toad 0]

Have you filled it with coolant yet? Just wondering as it'll start to get awfully hot in places if you run it without, and also the ECU picks the temp up from a coolant sensor, so if there's no coolant it'll think it's still at 23 degrees or something and the engine will still be on the cold start map and be over fueling, hence the smoke perhaps?

[zak 0]

I only ran the car for a few minutes without coolant, after which i filled up the system and ran the engine with the heaters on untill the fans kicked in.

 

I'm going to spend some time this evening an recheck that there are not any splits or vacuum leaks then take it for a run first thing tommorow morning. I'm also planning on doing a compression test tommorow and will see if that brings up anything. I did use a gsf headgasket which was made by victor reinz, maybe i should have just gone with vw as i did with most of the other parts.

[dr_mat 0]

That really sounds like it's water coming out. That definitely doesn't imply a fuelling problem, so tbh I'd be inclined to get it out on the road and see what happens. If it's using butt loads of water you've clearly got a leak somewhere (usually the HG, but could be elsewhere too), but it's also possible it's just burning off and it will dissipate after a while.

 

I've heard that Victor Reinz HGs are the same ones VW use, so I would say poor components is unlikely to be a problem.

[fla 9]

That really sounds like it's water coming out. That definitely doesn't imply a fuelling problem, so tbh I'd be inclined to get it out on the road and see what happens. If it's using butt loads of water you've clearly got a leak somewhere (usually the HG, but could be elsewhere too), but it's also possible it's just burning off and it will dissipate after a while.

 

I've heard that Victor Reinz HGs are the same ones VW use, so I would say poor components is unlikely to be a problem.

 

I used the same HG and so far its fine - yes i believe thet the Victor Reinz are OEM.

 

It does seem like water, true. Unless its something major like a cracked block, hope not though. If it is water then teh plugs will be super clean, being steam cleaned all the time. Check them before and after a run.

[zak 0]

heres a pic of the of the skimmed head, the engineering firm skimmed it 7 thou, there are two bits of corrosion i was concerned about but they advised it shouldnt be an issue

 

i dont have pics of the block but i did scrape all the old gasket material off and rub it down with emery paper slightly

[zak 0]

heres my compression test results

Cyl 1 2 3 4 5 6

Dry. 151 160 152 161 154 154

Wet 158 166 165 180 170 170

 

Figures in psi.

 

 

I warmed the engine up untill the fans kicked in, pulled the fuel pump relay and fuse and disconnected the lv wiring to the coilpack. After which i removed all the plugs and took readings for each cylinder one at a time while cranking the car over.

 

Does this confirm the head gasket has sealed? i dont have the tool to analyse exhaust gasses from the coolant expansion tank, will i still need to do this?

 

While i was out working on the car i pulled the wiring to the lamda and ran it for a few minutes and i have the same problem, When i get time i'll go through and check out the values in vag com see if i can spot anything there.

 

I'm pretty stumped not sure what to do next, If i can i'll take it for a spin early tommorow morning or later this evening and see if it makes a difference.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Those head pits ideally could have done with being ground out and JB welded before skimming, but they're very normal for a VR6 and why G11 was scrapped and replaced with G12 and G12+.

 

Compressions are within tolerance. You never get 180 across all 6 on a VR6, except on factory fresh ones.

[zak 0]

i took the car for a drive this morning, it drove well and picked up nicely from the bottom end. After the car warmed up it started smoking again so i took it for a short blast stretching the legs of the engine up to about 4-5k. This didnt make any difference really it was still smoking as it was in the videos i put up so i decided to come home. On the way home the engine jolted and cut out, i feared the worse as yesterday the engine had developed a tapping noise from the chain side. I managed to coast to a stop in to a petrol station where i tried to crank the engine as it span so freely i could tell there was no compression so i called my brother who towed me home.

 

Once home we cranked the engine and you could see the cam was not spinning through the oil cap so it seems that the someting has happened to the chain. I will have to strip the engine down again to find out what the problem is but im sure there will be a damaged/snapped chain and some bent valves involved. Not sure how this could have happened as i torqued the chain guides and tensioners up correctly and i turned the engine over by hand a good 5 - 6 times to ensure the timing was correct. When i first started the engine after the rebuild and the oil had built up pressure the chain was silent it only became noisy yesterday.

 

The question now is should i stick with this engine, what if i build it back up and i have the same smoking problem?

[dr_mat 0]

You are having no luck mate, that's a real bummer.. :(

 

I guess the fate of that engine can only be decided when you know how much damage there is. :-\

[zak 0]

after two years of faultless running its one thing after another right now, too annoyed to work on it today so will strip it down tommorow. Shouldn't take too long to do as i know where everythng goes off the top of my head now.

[BILLCOR 1]

No luck at all mate, I see you've posted on ED38 for another engine, in the long run would it not be worth buying one from Vege, at around £1800 delivered to your door and no worries of it going tits up ? I am having similar smoking problems after having Shrick 268 cams etc fitted, I'm being told it may just be valve stem seals but they will not know until its apart AGAIN :mad2: all costing more cash, its all a complete PITA :?