Vortech charged VR or R32 engine conversion??

[KADVR6 0]

i miss my old 46k 12v :( at least with that in the car it bloody ran :lol:

 

i keep on getting told that when the r32 is running properly i will love it, but when i had 95% of the parts ready for either the rotrex or turbo sitting in front of me, then i decided to use my "spare" engine instead, at the time there were about 5ish r32 corrado's about?? by the end of this year there will be more r32 corrado's than vrt corrado's.

 

did i do the right thing?? time will tell i suppose.

 

karl

[Goldie 2]

R32 does seem to be the hot topic and yes im on the bandwagon, ive got one almost ready to go into my car.

 

I dont get the which is cost effective arguement, charged turbo or 24v. We dont buy these cars because of the cost effective side. For me i want an R32 because i enjoy the feel of a NA 6 pot and call me vain, i think its a nice looking engine in the bay. Go with what suits your wants from you car and how you want to perform, sound etc etc..

 

I know at the moment it looks like every 12v will become a 24v but a couple of years ago it looked like everyone was going to charge their VRs and they didnt.

[KipVR 1]

Oh yes, sorry Pete, you do, i was only thinking in terms of radially.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Speaking of the R32 -> MK2 install which Stealth Racing have just completed, I've seen and heard it running and I can tell you this, it is the best R32 install I've seen to date :D

 

It's super neat, starts on the key and makes 273hp after a Vince special remap. All MK5 hardware, ECU and software.

 

Brembos of any significance will not fit behind BBS RXs without spacers. My AP calipers are comparable in size to Brembos of the same power and there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell of those fitting behind my old RXs. RCs, maybe, with a little push out.

 

18kg lighter than a 12V, that's a handy saving. Equivalent to shifting the battery weight. Another good weight saving comes from binning off the over bloated fans and using slimline items, approx 10Kg.

[pete_griff 0]

really want to drive my car side by side with a charged example once it's all done!

 

:wave:

 

i meant a SUPERcharged example - and a basic one at that - i would get trounced by a properly done supercharged setup, let alone your shiny new rebuilt VRT - have you got your C2 software all sorted yet, or are you still pootling off boost? - i'll give you a run if that's the case! :norty: :lol:

[Toad 0]

Ok im not going to argue this to much but..

 

1. It's smoother

 

Probably in standard form,but with short runner and 263 in N/A form its super smooth and turbod its very smooth,nothing like the original motor.

 

2. It's going to be more reliable than a re-built VR.

 

Sorry i dont get that,how will it be? Rebuilt fresh and new will be less reliable as a used motor?

 

8. It's quiet.

 

Yip your right the 12v in worn form can sound top end rattly.

 

Just wanted to stick up for the 12v engine a bit more.

 

1 & 8 as James said, it might well seem a whole load quieter and smoother than a 15 year old 100,000 + mile old VR, but having done Dinkus's chains, tensioners, tappets and cams this summer, it completely changed the car so quiet and smooth. Needs to be seen/heard to appreciate it.

 

2 Reliability.

 

This is something I don't get... A lot of people knock the 12v, citing bore wear,tensioner failure etc. Firstly, I personally don't feel these issues are as bad as people make out, The 12v engine is very strong and will continue to run with some major faults (Was it ChrisHill who dropped a valve this year and kept going?).

 

Secondly, I think the 24v and R32 are still young and we've yet to find out what faults they will have.... for a start, there are twice the tensioners, 12 pushrods as well as the 12 tappets, which will start to wear.

 

I also am not a fan of second hand engines. I probably worry too much, but I don't really trust people enough to sign £1500-2000 away on an engine, wiring looms and converting a car, only to find out that the engine is fooooked.

[yeti 0]

Woth mentioning probably a mate has had his car back from storm for a few weeks now after they fitted a 9ker mk5 r32 engine into it for him, the dyno graph they gave him made near as dam it 300bhp, he's got increased mpg (the car was/is an ealy model mk3 2.8 vr) but the amount he paid it is more than worth doing the work yourself!...

 

TBH this is what started me thinking again of binning the 2.8t project as its the r32 engined corrado i'd always wanted, yes its smoother on stock management but for me as well its gonna be as much about driving a car that i've built and put so much time and efort into to make mine, for that reason alone i think it doesnt matter what engine you put in, its your car and if you lot are like me, when you see a car you think - whats that missing, how can i improve that to be more focussed to me using the car as i intend... and besides, once you've swapped one engine and loom in, whats to stop you doing a different one in a few years time :-)

 

o and this talk of cheapo turbo upgrades to get 300bhp out of a vr sounds awesome, will that kit work on an r32??... looking at some of the projects being built around europe/world with the turbo kits, the limits seem to only be limited by money with this engine as i've seen dyno runs on you tube with well over 600bhp... o and i cant wait to see the lizard r36 roll out either, v special!

[zak 0]

From a different angle i like my engines to look factory in the bay and all the vr6 turbos ive seen look messy in the bay where as you can maKe an r32 look like this.

 

Admitedly its in a smoothed mk2 golf bay but it does look amazing 8)

[Leonard 0]

I really dont get VW 'nuts' and engine conversions.

 

The 12V in the Corrado is arguably the best watercooled VW engine ever. Why would you want to get rid of it? Why would you want to make it smoother? Quieter?

 

Would anyone here go out and buy an E30 M3 and stick a E46 M3 engine in it? You wouldnt as it is a class act already.

 

Yes the C could handle a bit more power but add a VSR/cams and a remap and it should be spot on. If you want to go faster spend the remaining engine conversion money on something really worthwhile like track time, advanced driving lessons and if needs be a CBR600!

 

I know people do it to be different but its already been done now, so again whats the point.

 

IMO If you are going to spend a lot of money on your car to make it into something it is not, then you either bought the wrong car in the first instance or you have had a change of lifestyle and would probably be better off selling and buying something else. Caterham, M3, 911, R32 whatever floats you boat.

 

Not flaming anyone here just had to get that out of me :D

 

Cheers

 

Matt

[Leonard 0]

Damn Zak despite having just written the above I have got OCD so am REALLY LIKING how tidy that engine bay is! :D

[The_Dude 0]

Mmm, that is nice.

I can't really add much to this except I am happy with my V9 and 300 horses, but as George W. has shown, once you have power you always want more and it won't be long before I start thinking about upping the ante.

I think this may be the answer

As seen at the 20th anniversary, R32 Bi-turbo

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Secondly, I think the 24v and R32 are still young and we've yet to find out what faults they will have.... for a start, there are twice the tensioners, 12 pushrods as well as the 12 tappets, which will start to wear.

 

Same amount of tensioners and 12 Rockers, 24 tappets actually chap :D

 

Would anyone here go out and buy an E30 M3 and stick a E46 M3 engine in it?

 

No. I would follow this man and fit an M5 V10 into it :lol: - http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2929437

 

From a different angle i like my engines to look factory in the bay and all the vr6 turbos ive seen look messy in the bay

:camp:

 

and this talk of cheapo turbo upgrades to get 300bhp out of a vr sounds awesome, will that kit work on an r32??...

 

Absolutely not! Turboing gets VERY expensive where the R32/24V are concerned. Cams are more than twice the price. Short runner intakes are 3 times the price and only 2 or 3 people make them. The stock plastic manifold will blow apart if you push more than 15psi through it. Turbo manifolds are expensive and in short supply too. Expertise in mapping ME7 24V ECUs for turbos is also in short supply too. One of the very few companies who can cover all of these bases in one shop is Hpgturbo.de

 

Nothing messy about this install 8)

[KipVR 1]

Ok im not going to argue this to much but..

 

1. It's smoother

 

Probably in standard form,but with short runner and 263 in N/A form its super smooth and turbod its very smooth,nothing like the original motor.

 

2. It's going to be more reliable than a re-built VR.

 

Sorry i dont get that,how will it be? Rebuilt fresh and new will be less reliable as a used motor?

 

8. It's quiet.

 

Yip your right the 12v in worn form can sound top end rattly.

 

Just wanted to stick up for the 12v engine a bit more.

 

1 & 8 as James said, it might well seem a whole load quieter and smoother than a 15 year old 100,000 + mile old VR, but having done Dinkus's chains, tensioners, tappets and cams this summer, it completely changed the car so quiet and smooth. Needs to be seen/heard to appreciate it.

 

2 Reliability.

 

This is something I don't get... A lot of people knock the 12v, citing bore wear,tensioner failure etc. Firstly, I personally don't feel these issues are as bad as people make out, The 12v engine is very strong and will continue to run with some major faults (Was it ChrisHill who dropped a valve this year and kept going?).

 

Secondly, I think the 24v and R32 are still young and we've yet to find out what faults they will have.... for a start, there are twice the tensioners, 12 pushrods as well as the 12 tappets, which will start to wear.

 

I also am not a fan of second hand engines. I probably worry too much, but I don't really trust people enough to sign £1500-2000 away on an engine, wiring looms and converting a car, only to find out that the engine is fooooked.

 

 

Toad your taking what I originally said out of context as VR6NOS did, I said that a low mileage factory 24V is likely to be more reliable than a RE-BUILT old 12V. I'm not saying that the 12V wasn't a good engine for its time, is was fantastic and mine proved to be reliable untill 120k with me driving it, which is a miracle.

[Leonard 0]

No. I would follow this man and fit an M5 V10 into it :lol: - http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2929437

 

You are a philistine Kev lol

[KipVR 1]

I really dont get VW 'nuts' and engine conversions.

 

The 12V in the Corrado is arguably the best watercooled VW engine ever. Why would you want to get rid of it? Why would you want to make it smoother? Quieter?

 

Would anyone here go out and buy an E30 M3 and stick a E46 M3 engine in it? You wouldnt as it is a class act already.

 

Yes the C could handle a bit more power but add a VSR/cams and a remap and it should be spot on. If you want to go faster spend the remaining engine conversion money on something really worthwhile like track time, advanced driving lessons and if needs be a CBR600!

 

I know people do it to be different but its already been done now, so again whats the point.

 

IMO If you are going to spend a lot of money on your car to make it into something it is not, then you either bought the wrong car in the first instance or you have had a change of lifestyle and would probably be better off selling and buying something else. Caterham, M3, 911, R32 whatever floats you boat.

 

Not flaming anyone here just had to get that out of me :D

 

Cheers

 

Matt

 

Here was my choice Matt, a rebuild the existing 12V of an R32 conversion. Same price. Which would you go for?

[Leonard 0]

Here was my choice Matt, a rebuild the existing 12V of an R32 conversion. Same price. Which would you go for?

 

I know what you are saying but surely a complete R32 conversion is going to cost at least 2k more than a replacement 12V? Unless you are doing all the conversion work yourself of course.

 

I

[KipVR 1]

I'm doing most of the conversion work myself (except wiring) but getting some help/premesis which is costing £1000 so they work out about the same once you've paid for all the new components and machining etc for the 12V.

[yeti 0]

 

and this talk of cheapo turbo upgrades to get 300bhp out of a vr sounds awesome, will that kit work on an r32??...

 

Absolutely not! Turboing gets VERY expensive where the R32/24V are concerned. Cams are more than twice the price. Short runner intakes are 3 times the price and only 2 or 3 people make them. The stock plastic manifold will blow apart if you push more than 15psi through it. Turbo manifolds are expensive and in short supply too. Expertise in mapping ME7 24V ECUs for turbos is also in short supply too. One of the very few companies who can cover all of these bases in one shop is Hpgturbo.de

 

Nothing messy about this install 8)

 

 

down boy! it was only a flippant remark, i've looked into the hgp kits for a few years and have be astounded by the neatness and power produced by them, they look almost stock! 8)

[Leonard 0]

I'm doing most of the conversion work myself (except wiring) but getting some help/premesis which is costing £1000 so they work out about the same once you've paid for all the new components and machining etc for the 12V.

 

That is cool and I respect what you are doing, but for most people myself included an R32 conversion would be around £4.5k For that money (or less) I have already decided if my engine ever gets beyond repair I will be going for one of these high performance blocks http://www.eurospecsport.com/products/e ... vr6-2v.htm

[Kevin Bacon 5]

mmm, I'll have a 3.4 long block at $10,000 please :D

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I said that a low mileage factory 24V is likely to be more reliable than a RE-BUILT old 12V

 

How many rebuilt 12Vs (standard spec) have you seen fail in a catastrophic way?

 

How many 12V engines are there in use, globally, compared to 24V?

 

The 12V is like all other VW engines, past and present. Look after it, and it'll look after you. Period.

[KipVR 1]

God, I wish I'd never mentioned reliability :lol:

[Toad 0]

Secondly, I think the 24v and R32 are still young and we've yet to find out what faults they will have.... for a start, there are twice the tensioners, 12 pushrods as well as the 12 tappets, which will start to wear.

 

Same amount of tensioners and 12 Rockers, 24 tappets actually chap :D

 

Sorry...

 

Bad combinations of words used there. Do the tensioners not control the VVT? I also get confused between rockers, pushrods etc. I'm too used to nice simple OHC engines :)

 

Anyway, the VVT setup is another thing that can wear and adds extra complications.

 

 

Toad your taking what I originally said out of context as VR6NOS did, I said that a low mileage factory 24V is likely to be more reliable than a RE-BUILT old 12V. I'm not saying that the 12V wasn't a good engine for its time, is was fantastic and mine proved to be reliable untill 120k with me driving it, which is a miracle.

 

No I'm not... If I had the choice of a reputably proffesionally rebuilt 12V and a used, admittedly low mileage 24V engine and had to pick the one that would be most likely to cover another 100,000K, I'd go 12V.

[KipVR 1]

How many 12V engines are there in use, globally, compared to 24V?

 

12V- Passat, Golf 3 and Corrado, Sharan/Galaxy any more?

 

24V- Passat, Golf 4 & 5, Touraeg, TT, A3,Q7, Transporter, any more?

 

Not much in it I should think.

 

Toad, so you find a person that can build engines better than purpose designed machinery,VAG build procedures and quality control (they exist, but not for the amounts of money I have) and go the 12V route rather than the 24V route, you'd still have all the old auxilary components and sensors etc to contend with.......

[vwdeviant 0]

Erm do I mention the R36 then? :lol: