early vs late rear spring uncompressed lengths

[boost monkey 0]

Hi all,

 

can someone confirm that early springs are actually shorter than lates? IIRC, the set of lates I had in my shed back in the old house were maybe 20mm longer than the earlies when stood side by side and I'd like to know as I've just bought some "early" springs which seem to be lates (they're ORANGE YELLOW YELLOW colour coded which is late AFAIK?)

 

also, will there be any problem with regards to compatibility with other early rear suspension hardware that I have got to assemble the rear struts? Will i have a serious rake wagon if i fit them? :lol:

 

Thanks,

 

Jon.

 

p.s. yes I searched.

[Jim Bowen 1]

i'd like to solve this mystery as when i buy -40mm springs for my late VR they drop the front -90mm

 

i reckon they are designed to the early springs and they take 40mm off that, so fitted to a late car the drop is massive

[davidwort 0]

early 4cyl cars always seem to sit lower than later ones and it's not just sagging/broken springs :lol:

so I'd say there is a couple of cm in it.

 

dunno if this helps at all:

 

climatronic wiring-Golf from May 01.pdfrear_springs.gif[/attachment:rxqi0op8]

 

2.8l 24v Climatronic system.pdfearly_front_springs_etka.gif[/attachment:rxqi0op8]

 

late_front_springs_etka.gif[/attachment:rxqi0op8]

[boost monkey 0]

Cheers davidwort, not just a PAS pretty face huh :norty: :lol:

 

why does ETKA/VAGCAT list the KR under early AND late? What was the definitive cross-over year? :scratch: The springs are deffo ORANGE YELLOW YELLOW as opposed to the GREEN ORANGE they should be?

 

so looks like my car is gonna be taking on dragster status then, although seller just confirmed they came off a G reg so i'm bigtime confuzed.

 

TBH, I'm gonna go away and flick through my photo library: if i used to have OYY springs on then it'll prob be fine :|

 

 

*always causes a problem*

[boost monkey 0]

edit: never bothered cleaning old springs to the point of IDing their colour codes so back to the drawing board!

 

maybe i should just put them on. elite dragster status won't fail an MOT unless the inspector is a Mopar hating SOB.

[Lufbramatt 0]

noticed on the part numbers up there for the front springs, the second one down with the 357 part number is a passat B3 front spring- the passats used slightly longer struts and springs up front than the golf mk2 platform (springs are about an inch or so longer on a passat than a golf), which may explain the increased ride height of later cars.

[Jim Bowen 1]

i think your right too, a 40mm drop on a passat would then be a true 40mm drop on a late corrado. instead of fitting a 40mm kit and going down 90mm

 

i may phone up Pi and weitec about this, as its false advertising in my mind, i've bought two sets of springs now and they lowered over twice what it says on the tin

[vwdeviant 0]

Jon, want some 60mm springs and Boge Struts?

 

When I finally get the coilies fitted?

[Yandards 0]

Later VR and very late valver (2.0l) springs used a spring that was designed to be progressive and provide lateral force compensation for an improved ride. As such the uncompressed height will be different when compared with other springs. Later cars as specified above always sit higher than earlier cars due to the spring changes and the spring top mount design difference.

 

What you also are failing to take into account is that these springs have been on a car for 18 years on the 'G' plate, there is no way they will not have settled over time to a different position than when the left the factory; as such you can't make a judgement beyond the colour coding to see if they are correct.

 

As for 'those springs also fit' classic case of parts bin raiding, after all the springs are designed to do a specific job at a specific loading range - as most VWs accross the range weighed in to within a few hundred kilos of each other (excluding polos obviously) then it makes sense to mix and match spring set-ups.

 

As for aftermarket spring lowering heights you need to consider that these figures are given based on using a certain type of spring top cap and top mount arrangement, if you use the wrong set-up it wont work correctly resulting in an incorrect ride height.

[davidwort 0]

one other thing with the spring top caps, I think the passat and corrado (with early style top mounts) have a spring top plate that lowers the car slightly compared to mk2 golf items, I've heard of some people using passat/corrado plates to lower a golf at the front a little (10mm ish) rather than buying aftermarket lowering caps designed for the mk2.

So it's not as simple as passats have longer springs than golfs, passat spring top plates are slightly different to compensate too.

[David Winter 0]

I owned a Storm several years ago and had lowered it and kept the original springs. This sat very high at the back. The Storm went and eventually I bought an earlier VR6 with a much better more level stance. Anyway I replaced the shocks recently and as I still had the springs off the Storm I compared and measured them.

Storm/late VR6 rear springs- 345mm

Earlier VR6 rear spring-325mm

Its surprising how much difference 20mm makes. Had I known when I had my Storm that the earlier rear springs were slightly lower I would have sourced some as I wanted to keep it original and spoilt it with over low and stiff eibach springs.[/

[Lufbramatt 0]

i see what your saying, but the passat spring there is the VR6 passat spring (92mm top coil) which used exactly the same VR6 type top mounts withy a separate bearing as the late corrados, so the whole assembly should be the same.

 

But yes, the older passat top mounts with the buitl in bearing do sit much lower (id say as much as 15mm), when i changed the springs on mine i also went to the VR6 style topmounts, and although the car was lowered 40mm all round, the back dropped much more than the front and gave it a distinctive reverse rake, so i had to put a set of lowering spring caps in to level it off with the late top mounts.

 

Its a well known fact in passat circles that golf struts are definatly shorter than passat items- you can lower the front of a mk3/4 passat about 30mm just by using STOCK golf VR6 shocks and springs. The passat is just slightly bigger all round :D

[Jim Bowen 1]

so if i wanted to lower my late VR at the front by about 30mm what could i do? am pretty set on buying some coilovers now, but would i be better ordering ones for a late passat?

 

Is there a chance the KW1's are designed to a golf/early corrado strut length? I want to be sure that by replacing the current -40mm springs with the KW1's (which say a minimum of -40mm) i won't be stuck in the same situation I.e: front too low

[Lufbramatt 0]

id have to check the part numbers of the struts them selves too, as on a golf mk3 vr6 strut the body of the strut is shorter too (so the spring platform is slightly nearer the hub), not sure if the vr6 corrado used passat strut bodies too, or just the passat spring.

 

otherwise the passat coilies might still be too long for the rado, but surely rado coilies a the higest setting would give you the look you want?

 

ive got a set of stock passat struts in the garage which i could measure if anyone has a set of stock corrado ones to compare against?

[Jim Bowen 1]

i was hoping so, that the coilovers won't be too low, as it stands the front wishbones are higher at the wheel than where they join car, only by about 10mm

 

think i'll be happy with them level

 

i binned all my original stuff :(

[boost monkey 0]

3corsameal, if you could stop hijacking both my current threads that would be really helpful! It's a bit sh

[davidwort 0]

unless you've got a broken spring I can't see a late rear spring sagging enough to make it shorter than an early one, even if they are the best part of 20 years old, the bushings and top spring packing on the rear are another matter though, new vs old.

Of course if the previous owner was a paving slab delivery man...

[vwdeviant 0]

Jon, want some 60mm springs and Boge Struts?

 

When I finally get the coilies fitted?

 

Well Jon do ya?

 

:grin:

[Toad 0]

so if i wanted to lower my late VR at the front by about 30mm what could i do? am pretty set on buying some coilovers now, but would i be better ordering ones for a late passat?

 

Is there a chance the KW1's are designed to a golf/early corrado strut length? I want to be sure that by replacing the current -40mm springs with the KW1's (which say a minimum of -40mm) i won't be stuck in the same situation I.e: front too low

 

Why not order some PI springs for a very late VR with the late top mount? That might make a bit of a difference.

[boost monkey 0]

sorry about the earlier pram toy flingage, if someone could hand them back up I might stop crying :nuts:

 

Jon, I'm alright cheers mate. going back to standard! although the car isn't going to be done until well into 2009 with my lack of time / money / health / energy atm. Guh.

 

Is this what getting old feels like?!

[Jim Bowen 1]

so if i wanted to lower my late VR at the front by about 30mm what could i do? am pretty set on buying some coilovers now, but would i be better ordering ones for a late passat?

 

Is there a chance the KW1's are designed to a golf/early corrado strut length? I want to be sure that by replacing the current -40mm springs with the KW1's (which say a minimum of -40mm) i won't be stuck in the same situation I.e: front too low

 

Why not order some PI springs for a very late VR with the late top mount? That might make a bit of a difference.

 

thats the setup i have now, late Pi springs with the 92cm top coil and late top mounts, i had weitecs before that with late top mounts, and the same before that but with early top mounts :(

[Yandards 0]

I hear your points Yan, you could also argue that the early springs originally on my car would have deflected the same amount (if the springs are the same material) so the length ratio of the two sets should be the same? (if both springs compress 10% say over a set amount of time then surely the "late" will still be longer than the "early".

 

True but like Dave W mentions just below your original post you don't know what those springs have been through in 20 years. Even if the car sat parked on a hill for a few years it will have an impact. I guess my point was more that you can't guarentee that the length comparison is going to be acurate based on a single set of springs. Or that at some point in time the springs have been changed for a different set from another car, just look at the suggestions on this thread with reference to Passat and Golf items.

 

Without access to my usual resources I can't really add any more information to this thread, suffice to say there are some very fundamental variations to the corrado spring packages over its brief production span.

 

For those of you with aftermarket kit I know the Konis have an adjustable rear spring plate to change the ride height if required - next time read the instructions... :)

[David Winter 0]

I personally dont think the springs sag that much over time especially at the rear. I rebuilt the rear suspension on my early VR with new shocks and mount rubbers and this reinstated exactly the right height. It is a nice set up, I think a lot of people dont realise how good an original set up with new shocks bumpstops etc is. I dont like the late ride height but the set up on my current early Vr with the deeper chin spoiler and more level ride height is brilliant. I ruined my old storm and to my experience most stiffened spring set ups are just too uncomfortable on our roads. Its not at low speeds but undulations on motorways that I hated with my lowered storm. Both sets of original rear springs were in good condition and had not covered horrendous miles when I compared these.

[boost monkey 0]

cheers for the help guys. If they're lates then they won't match up to my other strut items. What should I be checking the springs against as the rear top plate isn't really shaped to the springs I think? not like the front ones are anyways.

 

ta,

 

jon.

[davidwort 0]

cheers for the help guys. If they're lates then they won't match up to my other strut items. What should I be checking the springs against as the rear top plate isn't really shaped to the springs I think? not like the front ones are anyways.

 

ta,

 

jon.

 

the rears have a rubber, specially shaped packing piece on the top plates