Corrado Track Setup

[mic_VR 3]

Calling all you guys who get your 'rados out on the track I'm interested in hearing what setups people are running.

 

ie: I am currently running the Weitec Ultra GT shocks and springs (60mm drop) and I've done quite a few trackdays without any issues, in fact most people have commented on how well it handles both on the track and the road...... but that was with standard wheels/tyres.

 

I'm now running 17's with 205/40 tyres on 8J wheels with an ET35 offset. And as the weather is getting better I'm thinking of getting back out on the track with my new racing brakes and 24v conversion...... but I'm getting rubbing issue at normal road speeds let alone throwing it into Riches or Quarry at full pelt! :lol:

 

I'm already thinking get the arches rolled, and somehow sort the wheel liners but I'm wondering if there is anything else I can do. I don't really want to raise the car as I think it looks the nuts, so I guess I'll be thinking about something height and damping adjustable to stiffen everything up for the track.

 

So what you all using? If people could post: Suspension (type, height, damping etc), ARB's, Wheels, Arches, Lowering etc that would help.

 

Cheers

Mic

[dukest 0]

I think your ride height is just fine tbh Mic, no need to go lower unless you're really going all out to track it and nothing else. I would 100% get the arches done and stick on an arb or two, just the benefit of being on 17s and holding it flatter will be a revelation i think. Whether you go front and rear or just rear arb is up to you really. I've found mine still more understeery than is ideal with front and rear eibach but at the same time it's not that hard to bring the end round either. I blame both of them on height-induced bodyroll to be honest which you should suffer less from, but, depending how you like it, fitting both may be best to start with to see how it feels.

[Jim 2]

Strut braces and uprated ARB's next perhaps Mic?

[davidwort 0]

get some more negative camber on there, VR is about -1 to -1.5 standard, saloon car racing uses about -3 IIRC :)

I don't know anything about a suitable setup for the corrado track wise, but it's worth finding out what the mk2 track day chaps use in terms of toe and camber though, I bet they have them toeing out (instead of parallel) and more negative camber than spec though. It's something you could adjust at the trackside if you are driving the car there and back too.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I think your ride height is just fine tbh Mic,

 

Where as I feel it's too low :D

 

Visually it looks fantastic but if it were my car I would be hoiking it up an inch :D

 

You could always just try some stiffer springs Mic, but it depends what kind of cornering speeds you want to achieve!

 

I've found mine still more understeery than is ideal with front and rear eibach

 

On what wheel/tyre size? On 15s that should give you a nice balance but on 17s, I agree, the shallower tyre profile + a stiffer bar can exacerbate understeer. One solution is to obviously refit the stock front bar, which on a road car feels perfect to me. Understeer practically non-existent. It cocks a rear leg easier, but it feels soooooo much better. On the track you might want that flatness back given the cornering speeds you guys hit......tis a tricky one. Ideally you want an adjustable front bar :D

[Joe M 0]

I think your ride height is just fine tbh Mic,

 

Where as I feel it's too low :D

 

Visually it looks fantastic but if it were my car I would be hoiking it up an inch :D

 

You could always just try some stiffer springs Mic, but it depends what kind of cornering speeds you want to achieve!

 

 

Agree with Kev, have a look under the front of your car, if the wishbones are pointing down towards the engine your losing a lot of the effects of the ARB's. For best handling you want the wishbones facing slightly up towards the engine.

You can then set the rear to match, or even play about with it making it slightly higher or lower than the front to see how it affects the handling.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

For best handling you want the wishbones facing slightly up towards the engine.

 

I can see a bead of sweat forming on Mic's forehead at the thought of jacking it up :lol: To get the wishbones parallel (the bare minimum I will use on a car) requires at least a 2-3 finger arch gap, which is most Corrado owners worst nightmare :D To get the wishbones pointing where they should be requires the standard VR6 '4x4 height', which is exactly why VW shipped them at that height. :D

[Joe M 0]

Yep, its unfortunate but thats the way they are. I used to jack mine up for trackdays and probably about the same height as yours for road use. The regular changing of heights stopped the coilovers siezing up at least. :grin:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah that's true, although I've managed to seize all 4 of my KW spring perches. Too much adjustment I think :lol:

 

2-3 finger gap in road spec is about right. It lowers the C of G enough to make cornering feel kart like and stable but still allows some travel / height for B roads and every day obstacles like multi-storey carpark ramps and speed humps.

 

Although I've never tracked my Corrado (but have a MK2) I would imagine you're getting a lot of compression at those cornering speeds, for which you need good travel as you say. I bet the kerbs give the dampers a right hammering as well!

[Wendy 0]

Strut Brace and Quaiffe Diff.

[dukest 0]

I think your ride height is just fine tbh Mic,

 

Where as I feel it's too low :D

 

Visually it looks fantastic but if it were my car I would be hoiking it up an inch :D

 

You could always just try some stiffer springs Mic, but it depends what kind of cornering speeds you want to achieve!

Yes, it does all hang on whether it needs to stay a road car too! I appreciate that in terms of suspension geometry too low isnt great, but at the same time didnt you guys investigate upside-down droplinks or something to cope with that? I guess there must be a compromise between geometry performance and lowering the centre of gravity in these non-professional situations?

 

I've found mine still more understeery than is ideal with front and rear eibach

 

On what wheel/tyre size? On 15s that should give you a nice balance but on 17s, I agree, the shallower tyre profile + a stiffer bar can exacerbate understeer. One solution is to obviously refit the stock front bar, which on a road car feels perfect to me. Understeer practically non-existent. It cocks a rear leg easier, but it feels soooooo much better. On the track you might want that flatness back given the cornering speeds you guys hit......tis a tricky one. Ideally you want an adjustable front bar :D

havent taken it on track on the 15s since 2009 Kev so yes, this past year that experience was all on 17s. given that Mic is sticking with those then maybe staying stock at the front is best. Did you end up finding an uprated front since having gone back onto your Speedies?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Nah, I put that one on the back burner John. It drives superb on 15s with just a rear bar too :D Having said that, that's on winters. I haven't had a chance to really push it on summer 15s yet but at normal speeds the cornering and turn-in are superb.

 

Yeah we did find a way to invert the tie rod but it's not enough on it's own. The wishbone needs moving down as well. It started getting complicated and expensive so the fire fizzled out of that one. Still definitely want to do something like that at some point though as I think it will transform the Corrado tbh.

[Joe M 0]

I have seen ball joint extensions available for Golfs that move the wishbone down, it opens a whole can of worms with bumpsteer though and having to move the tie rods as Kev says.

[mic_VR 3]

I can see a bead of sweat forming on Mic's forehead at the thought of jacking it up :lol:

 

Yes but still been than that clenching feeling everytime I throw it about to much at the moment.

 

I might start with some 40mm springs on my current setup, although I'm not sure they'll be stiff enough. It's that or say bugger it and go for a height adjustable set.

 

Dukest - You're running a 40mm drop aren't you?

 

The one thing I have got to my advantage is the fact it's not a daily so could set it up a bit harder with a more race focus.

 

Wendy - what's your current setup? You still tracking yours or have you moved onto something a little better now?

[coullstar 0]

My wishbones are sitting level if not slightly down. Ive found the car fine so far but I have adjustable damping as well soIve played around to get a nice setting. Did understeer in the wet mind you. Best idea would be rolling the arches to start with then trying the car if it were me.

[dukest 0]

mine's about 35mm drop i think Mic. I have a set of brand new PI springs which i think would be harder but not quite as low as yours if you wanted to experiment? that said when Fla had some on his with TT comps he was having rubbing issues as well hence my vote for at least a bit of arch attention still.

[Wendy 0]

Mic - No, I have never tracked my Corrado, only done the two very short sessions at Coombe which were both CCGB events when they let us have some time on Track for National Days I think it was.

 

I have also not moved onto anything regarding a Track Day Car, although I have my National B licence now, generally I felt the finances were too tight for me to able to enjoy it sufficiently - being too concerned that if there was any major damage done, I would not have the funds to rectify it - all meaning I would not drive the car on track as I really wanted.

 

So, I have just being sticking to Hiring a Track Car for Track Day Events which although not cheap, means I do know where I am financially.

 

Re the Strut brace and Quaiffe Diff I mentioned earlier - I know someone who had this set up and went on Track with them several times and thought the set up good. Handling was solid, secure and felt planted, I think the car had 16" wheels too. I can probably find out more information on it if interested.

 

My Corrado is relatively standard and only really improved for better road use - with my driving !!!! :lol: :lol:

 

Every so often I do look at the Porsche Cayman, having ruled out the 997 as too excessive for road use - for me !!!! We all know I would properly drive it (as Jim can testify in accompanying me on a test drive and you having driven in convoy in Germany :lol: ) and if I didn't lose the back end, then probably my licence. !!

The 996 I feel is too dated and pricey for what it is but Cayman keeps rising in price - so annoying !!

Which brings me to looking for a £1000 run around, to reduce the miles and useage on the Corrado and have better fuel economy, but then my heart is not really in it, I love the drive and thrill of the Corrado too much.

[Joe M 0]

Yes, it does all hang on whether it needs to stay a road car too! I appreciate that in terms of suspension geometry too low isnt great, but at the same time didnt you guys investigate upside-down droplinks or something to cope with that? I guess there must be a compromise between geometry performance and lowering the centre of gravity in these non-professional situations?

 

 

There is always a compromise, but it all depends on yourself what level that compromise is.

Its not all down to centre of gravity, theres also a roll centre to consider. Imagine looking at the front of the car and drawing straight lines through the wishbones, that will give you a rough idea of where the roll centre is (this is a rough guide, not exact). Now the closer that point is to the cog the less roll there will be, so you can see that a standard car will have the roll centre above the cog, as you lower the car they move together, then as you keep lowering the roll centre will disapeer into the ground.

I would say its best to have the roll centre slightly above the cog, then as you go round a corner and the suspension compresses it moves towards the cog giving best anti roll charecteristics.

If the roll centre is below the cog, as you turn and the suspension compresses the roll centre moves away from the cog, meaning the harder you turn the worse the anti-roll gets.

This is a very simplified way of saying it, as there are many other variables which also affect things, you just need to have a play about and see what your happy with.

[dukest 0]

This is a very simplified way of saying it

ok, well that statement is all relative.. :)

i cant pretend to have a detailed understanding of suspension set up so I can only really frame the experience I've had so far based on how its felt and what knowledge i do have. happy to hold my hand up and say that the interaction of roll centre and CoG is a beyond my current appreciation!

all i would say is mine is higher than most on the 35mm h&r springs and is certainly not ideal on track (although short of 3 way suspension i dont think i'd change the set up for the road).

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I would say its best to have the roll centre slightly above the cog, then as you go round a corner and the suspension compresses it moves towards the cog giving best anti roll charecteristics.

If the roll centre is below the cog, as you turn and the suspension compresses the roll centre moves away from the cog, meaning the harder you turn the worse the anti-roll gets.

 

Spot on :D

 

Another way to think of it is the parallel bars that gymnasts use. If you imagine your shoulders are the inboard ARB supports and your hands are the outboard droplinks, so long as your shoulders are above the bars and your arms at 45 degrees, you can push down on the bars (wishbones) very hard.

 

If your shoulders are level with the bars, you can't push down at all and there's very little control.

 

If you follow a BMW Mini, you can clearly see it's rear arms pointing upwards a good 30 degrees. That's the angle we need to aim for, but as Joe says, when the Corrado's roll centre is optimal, the wishbone angle no longer is! Catch 22!

 

there are many other variables which also affect things, you just need to have a play about and see what your happy with.

 

Absolutely. Even tyres can make a huge difference!

 

At the end of the day, it's good to use these basic chassis principals as a guide but if you like how it drives as it is, there's no need to change anything really. It's only when people find the car's limits a little sooner than desired do they start fiddling with this stuff :D

[Jim 2]

We all know I would properly drive it (as Jim can testify in accompanying me on a test drive and you having driven in convoy in Germany :lol: ) and if I didn't lose the back end, then probably my licence. !!

 

Umm... yep.... I think the salesman was just as surprised as I was on that test drive. I was fairly eager to get out at the end! :)

 

Still gutted you never bought it though Wendy.. I thought I'd at least have had a chance to drive it in a car park or something, as bribary for doing some computer repairs for you :D