VR6 wont start after first long run. NOW Fixed!

[skid 1]

Gave my project VR6 its first decent run since i rebuild the top end.

Seamed to run well out to my mates (35miles), stopped at his house and then tried to restart it 5 mins later for him to hear how the engine sounded but it wouldnt run.

He initialy thought let it cool could jut be a hot VR6 prob.

Anyway an hour later it still wouldnt start and run.

It would start and cut out instantly every single time.

Even giving it some throttle it would start rev up and cut out instantly again.

Phoned the AA but unfortunetely they sent a local garage with no tools/diagnostic gear, so basically got the lorried back home last night.

 

AA is going to come round to day to run it on the diagnostics (VCDS).

It was checked recently and it had some faults which i sorted out, basically a couple of sensors, cleaned up ISV etc.

 

Got it checked by Graeme(coullstar), initially it showed Camshaft position sensor, but once started the car it cleared.

 

My gut feeeling is its the CPS.......................Any thoughts guys?

 

Def cant be the Crank position sensor as its getting spark and fuel and intitially starting.??

Edited May 1, 2012 by skid

[Portent 0]

MAF? When I left mine disconnected by accident the car started and immediately stalled again.

[Roger Blassberg 0]

Despite what you say, it sounds like the crank position sensor - starts then dies almost immediately. It will run without a good cam position sensor, you just won't get sequential fuelling and you'll be down on power.

 

As an alternative, perhaps the ignition switch is faulty; they are cheap enough (get a genuine VAG one though) just awkward to change.

 

Unfortunately, the crank position sensor will ALWAYS show a fault with a stationary engine, which can be confusing; try taking it out and cleaning it.

 

Best wishes

 

RB

[skid 1]

MAF hasnt been touched since the run.

But it was cleaned out previously and has been assembled correctly again

 

---------- Post added at 9:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 9:27 AM ----------

 

Thanks Roger, thats what i was thinking.

Take out the orginal sensor and give it a clean, then re try to see if it starts.

I have phoned VW and ordered a new one anyway, which will arrive on monday.

Just spoke to a friend(VW tech) he says if it starts and instantly cuts out could be an Imobiliser problem, weather its the new alarm or the original VW imobiliser.

He said to try disconnecting the Battery for 30 mins and trying again.

[tonedef 9]

Mine used to start and cut out instantly on odd occasions, normally when it was hot but also when cold so no obvious pattern. I suspected the immobiliser as the cause and swapping the key reader coil made it go away, either the coil was the fault or maybe just the contact wasn't too good and swapping in fixed it. It's an easy try just to mess with the connector a bit, unplug and plug back in a few times to clean and reseat the pins?

[skid 1]

Well i did the battery disconnect then reconnect..........Nothing.

Removed and cleaned the CPS...........nothing.

AA came out and had a look but their diagnostic wont read a car older than 2001..............so not much help there.

I am going to phone my Alarm istaller and check with him, also see if somebody local can Vagcom it......apart from that i am stumped, well till i get a new sensor at least.

[floppyman 0]

What year is your vr? Sounds like immobiliser

[skid 1]

Its a 1995.

Just spoke to alarm installer and he says it wont be alarm/immobiliser as its wired through starter motor and it wouldnt even initially start.

[tonedef 9]

But the original VW immobiliser does allow it to start for a second or so before cutting the ignition. Just because you've an aftermarket one fitted doesn't mean the original was removed, mine's certainly still got both.

[VAG-hag 0]

What year is your vr? Sounds like immobiliser

 

This gets my vote too..... put ignition on, have a brew/ chat for 5 mins then fire it up. Worth doing a search on the connector that sits in the dash that may need a fettle. Mine sufferers from this too

[dr_mat 0]

The original immobiliser operates through the ECU, nothing to do with the starter circuit. There's a chip in the key and a reader coil in the steering column. If the crank sensor is dodgy .. it's not unusual when they're borderline that they will stall after getting hot, and then won't restart .. but it will restart once the engine is cool. And basically without any reliable crank sensor signal the ECU won't even put fuel in while you crank the starter, so I don't think that's your problem.

[1xshaunx1 27]

could be fuel pump relay under dash in the fuse box, no 167 relay can be very tempremental when old

[skid 1]

I am not thinking its the CRANK sensor........I am thinking its the Camshaft sensor.

As stated it must be getting fuel as we can smell it and it briefly kicks with higher revs if we give it some throttle, but dies instantly every time.

[floppyman 0]

I am not thinking its the CRANK sensor........I am thinking its the Camshaft sensor.

As stated it must be getting fuel as we can smell it and it briefly kicks with higher revs if we give it some throttle, but dies instantly every time.

 

Again....

Imobiliser

[dr_mat 0]

And, again, the engine will *not* stall if the CAM sensor has failed.

[Stonejag 10]

Again....

Imobiliser

Again again...immobiliser! ;) A while back, just for fun I tried mine with a new key I had cut (without the chip in) and it would start and run, give higher revs with throttle etc, but die after 2 seconds when the ECU failed to read the chip, exactly like yours. It even throws an error code on Vagcom when this happens so you can try starting again and watch the screen, it will tell you!

 

If you're dead set on replacing the cam position sensor I do have a spare I'd part with if you offered me enough money ;)

 

Stone

[skid 1]

Ok so I am prob looking at immobiliser probs.

So what now? Search under the cowal for the receiver coil, and wiggle it about?

Or turn on ignition leave for 10 mins then start?

Basically I have no idea what I am looking for :(.

I did get a complete lock system off my mate, maybe swopping ignition barrel and key ?

Any photos, links to guide me guys

Much appreciated for all your help and replies.

[job705 10]

Ok so I am prob looking at immobiliser probs.

So what now? Search under the cowal for the receiver coil, and wiggle it about?

Or turn on ignition leave for 10 mins then start?

Basically I have no idea what I am looking for :(.

I did get a complete lock system off my mate, maybe swopping ignition barrel and key ?

Any photos, links to guide me guys

Much appreciated for all your help and replies.

 

hope you able to sort this out m8

[floppyman 0]

Theres allways the option to remove the immobiliser, but, its not a cheap thing since the ecu has to coded by someone in the know how (stealth).

The very first thing you should do is follow the wire that comes from thw reader coil (circle black plastic around the ignition switch) and every plug you find along that wire, unplug it spray some contact spray or wd40 and connect again.

Im shure that will help alot.

The immobiliser detects voltage resistence and a dodgy connection will cause more resistence.

[RW1 0]

Ok so I am prob looking at immobiliser probs.

So what now? Search under the cowal for the receiver coil, and wiggle it about?

Or turn on ignition leave for 10 mins then start?

Basically I have no idea what I am looking for :(.

I did get a complete lock system off my mate, maybe swopping ignition barrel and key ?

Any photos, links to guide me guys

Much appreciated for all your help and replies.

 

If its the Camshaft Position Sender, fault 00515, the engine will still start and continue to run, not die, just it will be in limp home mode feeling like a cylinder's worth of power is missing.

 

If its the standard immobilser blocking, then a fault code will appear, 17978. Thats associated with this type of failed start.

 

Waiting 10 mins will do nothing.

 

You can't swap the key because it contains a small encoded chip to the immobiliser. But I suggest you check the chip has not fallen out of the key fob plastic body, if the body is damaged.

 

It looks like this, the little rectangular object in the plastic body, top right.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]60833[/ATTACH]

 

If lost, you are stuffed as unless you have a spare key with the chip, you will need to get new keys encrypted to you Corrado's immobilser at the dealers.

 

First things is to get the ECU fault codes, read the engine and immobilser memories again so see whats there in the way of stored codes. Clear down the fault first and then try starting, then read the new fault codes in both ECU. Immobiliser is controller 25.

 

Haven't read anyone mentioning the ignition key sensor to immboliser connection under the dash above the spoiler switch. (ETA: Posted by Floppyman while writing this!) Disconnecting and spraying with WD40 to see if its a micro-corrosion problem blocking the key signal. Follow the shiney black cable off the steering column wiring to the immobiliser box on the inside of the dash. Disconnect the brown 3 pin connector carefully as they are small fine pins and sockets. Spray with WD40 and re-connect.

 

After this it gets more difficult to pin point. So try check the key fob out if its split open at all, try the WD40 trick, get the ECU re-scanned (clear faults down first, try starting and then look at the faults codes and what they are.).

 

.

[dr_mat 0]

Unfortunately for you, the whole point of the engine immobiliser is to make it hard to nick the car if you don't have the right key .. :)

Fortunately, since it has run ok in the past for you chances are it's just a bad connection in the reader coil or its connection back to the ECU. Have heard about this many times before.

[alexvr6storm 10]

Just had something similar today, battery was disconnected for a week or so, re-connected it, went out for half an hour drive and running fine. Nipped into a shop, came back and she just fired up and then died immediately. Was stuck for over an hour, kept on trying to start her with no joy. 2 hours later my old man turns up with a tow rope and she fires into life....

He was not happy!!! Does disconnecting the battery upset the ecu or is this immobiliser?

[tonedef 9]

Disconnecting the battery does upset the ecu but only the optimisation settings, will still fire and run OK so probably not related to the cutting out issue. It's so frustrating when you give up and ask for a tow just to find that it fires into life and runs fine the next six months! Of course that's standard Corrado lulling you into a false sense of security territory!!!

[CazzaVR 0]

Would always try the immobiliser plug/clean with WD40, as it's free to fix and a pretty common problem.

 

Also worth checking all the intake hoses. Make sure they're all connected properly/not split/blocked etc. A blocked ISV pipe will cause stalling.

[skid 1]

Well not progress today as we were at the Balmoral 10k race.

But i did manage to check the key and the small chip is still in there, also gave it a quick spray with electrical cleaner( which also happened to spray back in my eye aarrrrrrrrrrrrgh).

Removed the steering cowal and found the reader coil for it, managed to remove it at the next 2 connections and replug back in(too much a rush to clean them out today). but even that made no differance.

Had to rush off for the race, just as well as the battery was getting flat trying to turn the car over so much over the past couple of days.

So thats been charging all day while we were up at Balmoral.

ISV and all air pipes have been checked and fully cleaned out last month.

 

 

Again i must state how much i appreciate the help and replies guys :)