Wheels arrived but damaged - advise needed

[KIPVW 0]

Disappointed in the amount of people who support the blatant telling of untruths, particularly someone who is a Treasurer for a related organisation. Sorry, but I feel pretty strongly about this.

Mods - should this thread continue? I know removing it is not changing much, but it's not the sort of content the befits this community (in my humble opinion).

 

(Not a dig at you Rams btw, you only asked some questions)

 

It doesn't matter if she is the treasurer for the club or not, it is just Judith's opinion personally that she is commenting on and quite frankly if i'd had a parcel just dumped on the drive that was damaged and not requesting my inspection before signing for the parcel AND the condition it arrived in i'd be pretty furious too.

 

Not saying that means i'd lie about it though but i cant see a successful result from the courier otherwise. We deal with couriers everyday at work delivering bikes mail order and always inform the customer to inspect it to make sure the box/packaging is not at all damaged as once it is signed for it is out of the couriers hands. Yet so many call a few days after to say it's damaged and there isn't much that can be done with the couriers other than our company sorting out some kind of good will gesture which in turn costs more money to sort out.

 

 

Really hope you get this sorted out Rams.

[captainredeye 0]

If a claim of not arriving was to be made I would have the seller do it and in turn then they refund you. Not to sure how to go about claiming damaged items , citizens advice and small claims court maybe the way to go.

[P3rks 11]

The problem here is that nobody will want to take ownership.

 

From what I've understood there is a German seller, a contact/intermediary, then Rams the buyer, then you have eBay and the shipping companies, German and English.

 

eBay won't do a thing because he's not payed via thier approved method of PayPal, the contact is just a middle man - other than liaise what else can he do? The seller could simply turn around and say not his problem. The couriers will blame everyone else but themselves - I guarantee that.

 

Was the shipment insured? Was it fully insured? Are wheels covered for insurance? Can you prove the true value of the wheels? We're they packed correctly? Can that be proved? Can you prove the wheels weren't damaged before they were sent? - these are the initial questions a courier will ask. They'll then also argue you signed for the goods or a neighbour did and you/a neighbour should have checked them first.

 

I know honesty IS the right thing to do. Morally speaking. I was brought up to have good moral, ethical values. But you have to understand that it's business. You're against not only a seller who has your money (and you have some broken expensive wheels in return) a seller who knows, if he chooses - doesn't have to do a thing to help you.. But also you will fight a company which it's sole existing purpose is to make money - they know the law, they follow the rules, make thier own terms and exploit them. By lying and saying they never arrived you cut out a lot of arguments they will make that simply you can't prove - its not unethical, it's just business, fighting fire with fire so to speak.

 

The choice you made is the 'right' one. But I'm afraid to say be prepared for a very long winded fight and/or an expensive bill.

 

Edit: this is a voice of relentless experience with couriers and damaged/lost items. The claim process will be long winded, any response will be long winded, any info they require will be long winded, if/when the claims rejected your appeal will be long winded - all designed so you give up because it's not worth the effort. Trust me, after 6-12 months of chasing and feeling no further forward than day one you just think **** it.

Edited June 8, 2012 by P3rks

[Jim 1]

Disappointed in the amount of people who support the blatant telling of untruths, particularly someone who is a Treasurer for a related organisation. Sorry, but I feel pretty strongly about this.

Mods - should this thread continue? I know removing it is not changing much, but it's not the sort of content the befits this community (in my humble opinion).

 

(Not a dig at you Rams btw, you only asked some questions)

 

Sorry mate, but I think that's pretty poor form questioning Butterfly. Reading back, unless a post has been deleted I don't actually see her advocating the telling of lies, nor do I consider it her position to act as some sort of moral police to advise what forum members should or should not be doing..? I consider Butterfly to be one of the most honest, upstanding people I know so it gets my back up to see people casting aspersions on people they don't even know.

 

For the record I personally would never dream of lying about packages not arriving. I think this should have been dealt with through the proper channels, but that's just my opinion and I don't feel in any position to make a judgement about whether it's right or wrong!

 

And yes, I think the thread should continue! :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Oddly enough my ZW1s arrived from Germany in that condition too. Those RH dishes are like cheese. They were clearly thrown around by the shipping companies involved. Just be wary of buying stuff from German ebay. They use the cheapest, crappest couriers known to man and as you've seen with your own eyes, the quality of the packing is terrible. They do this to over seas people because they know there's no come back. You aren't about to drive over to Germany and punch his lights out, so they take advantage of that.

 

Not all German ebayers are like that though, obviously, but enough of them do it for it to be a known problem though.

[Butterfly 0]

I hope that there isn't a tracker device fitted on the delivery vehicle. That will end this straight away...........

 

A tracker on the delivery vehicle would only prove that it was there. It wouldn't prove that a package was dumped on the drive.

 

And even if it could that doesn't provide a signed for receipt (if a signed for receipt was a requirement of the shipping terms)

 

 

Disappointed in the amount of people who support the blatant telling of untruths, particularly someone who is a Treasurer for a related organisation.

I did think I ought to quantify where my statement was coming from but hoped people would read the comment for what it was.

I said having a tracker on a van only proves that a VAN was in a certain PLACE. It in now way proves anything else.

 

I am making no comment on what is the right or wrong way to proceed with the problem.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Butterfly

[jamiehamy 0]

Everyone is absolutely entitled to their opinions, including people who hold a respected postion (and clearly are well respected and trusted).

 

However, in my humble opinion, with that position goes a certain responsibility which very often can be regarded as moral policing. If you are in a position where you are entrusted with other peoples money, then you need to ensure that you do not give people reason not to trust you or think 'that's dodgy'. Call me old school, I don't mind.

 

Hence my post - it's not personal in any way, I do not doubt for one moment Butterfly's integrity, but the post itself is pretty dubious.

 

I'll now climb down off my high horse and take a chill pill, I promise :)

 

---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 AM ----------

 

We wrote at the same time!

[OSV 0]

The reality here seems that as the courier left them without handing them over to a signed recipient there was no opportunity to inspect the wheels.. So regardless of who damaged them the first opportunity to report that they were damaged on arrival has been lost. I think it best to establish if the courier's policy requires signatures on receipt, this would undoubtedly be a good starting point,

[Butterfly 0]

so you get where I was coming from now?

Making no comment re the issue itself but discounting the 'if the vehicle had a tracker this whole problem is solved!!' statement.

:)

[Craig 0]

Sorry about the wheels mate. Really do feel for you, just want something to go right for a change without the ensuing hassle involved! Just bear in mind it will be worth it in the end and the final look will be faultless!

 

It wouldn't suit you to lie about the delivery and I think it would have just lead to more complications. As the wheeles were from an individual he's not like a company that would just write off the loss and issue you a replacement, I doubt this guy has another set he can send and he could afford to just do so anyway. I think what you have done is right although chances are it will just get ignored by the delivery company and that chap that poorly wrapped them.

 

To be honest I know you and your attention to detail and if the dishes weren't immaculate you would have probably had them refurbished anyway so now your potentially having to buy new dishes is solving that problem ;) if you can a small level of compensation back than take that as a bonus. You could use this excuse to paint the rims that grey I showed you on those other zw1s on eBay :)

 

Still need to go for a drive but think I need to sort this charger first, did you contact that fellow about the spray work on the bumper, that Might have to wait until i get this charger map sorted and csaba to fit my 312s.

[jamiehamy 0]

so you get where I was coming from now?

Making no comment re the issue itself but discounting the 'if the vehicle had a tracker this whole problem is solved!!' statement.

:)

 

I didn't then but I do now...lol

 

Cheers, J

[KIPVW 0]

Everyone is absolutely entitled to their opinions, including people who hold a respected postion (and clearly are well respected and trusted).

 

However, in my humble opinion, with that position goes a certain responsibility which very often can be regarded as moral policing. If you are in a position where you are entrusted with other peoples money, then you need to ensure that you do not give people reason not to trust you or think 'that's dodgy'. Call me old school, I don't mind.

 

Hence my post - it's not personal in any way, I do not doubt for one moment Butterfly's integrity, but the post itself is pretty dubious.

 

I'll now climb down off my high horse and take a chill pill, I promise :)

 

---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 AM ----------We wrote at the same time!

 

Not way does holding a position in a club form the basis of what you should bee allowed to say on a public forum and she didn't even suggest lying about it either, merely suggesting they had been in three area and nothing more to deliver the item.

 

My own opinions may be different but just because I'm chairman of a club doesn't me as no I can't have my own thoughts on any given

matter. I have to be reasonably diplomatic most of the time but you have really annoyed me with your comment and I actually think it rather bloody rude too.

 

Nothing personal mind just think it a pathetic comment.

[Critical_Mass 10]

Just to throw it out there... could the driver leaving them on the drive with no signature and therefore no opportunity for the recipient to check condition, be an admission of guilt?

 

Also, if the boxes AND polystyrene was damaged also, this suggests the wheels were damaged when they were in the box and more than likely the courier at fault. If the wheels were damaged before packing then would hte boxes be damaged also?

 

What are the chances of the seller packing damaged wheels and thinking of damaging the packaging to make it look convincing.. and the courier company usually ensure items are well packaged before taking them away - whether this was the case is another argument though.

 

What are the chances of the wheels been damaged by the seller AND also the packaging being damaged by the courier company on the same area as the damaged wheels.

 

For me its pointing towards the courier company mishandling the items and going on the above shouldnt be TOO hard to get your cash back.

[jok 0]

"with great power comes great responsibility"

Of course a mod can have his/her own opinion but voicing it is questionable.

Like celebs, politicians, sports stars etc. they can think what they like but because they can

Easily influence opinion because of their status if the subject is dubious they should shhhhh.

[KIPVW 0]

Thats just rubbish! but thats just my opinion.

[Jim 1]

It's irrelevant.. I said it last time and I'll say it again, she stated no preference for either the moral or immoral option.. to quote the post:

 

A tracker on the delivery vehicle would only prove that it was there. It wouldn't prove that a package was dumped on the drive.

 

And even if it could that doesn't provide a signed for receipt (if a signed for receipt was a requirement of the shipping terms)

 

I can't see anything in there either advocating (or disagreeing) about claiming that the wheels were not delivered. It's a simple statement of fact about how the courier company works. People seem to be pointing a lot of fingers about something that wasn't even said, or even implied! Oh, and Butterfly isn't even a Mod here.. she's just a user.

[Rams 0]

Hey guys,

 

We are a police of our own and actually feel humbled that so many share and feel my concern.

 

My 3 and half weeks of waiting felt like ages, then hearing from Barb that there were 2 big boxes outside made me fly down stairs with one shoe not even on expecting to meet the driver and had a pen knife with me ready to open them up. I walked into the road and saw nobody. Later that day called my neighbours and nobody heard anything or signed for anything.

 

Then I thought, let's see what the fellow forum members recommend and it was my German business partner who said immediately, say they didn't arrive. I said well, I don't want to get into trouble when after all I'm the victim but he said, at the end of the day, they were stupid and probably damaged them and if they take the risk of putting items outside in a risky way they will be vulnerable to covering my loss. It could have been anything in those boxes so it has to be crazy for them to just drop them without signature.

 

My dad said to me that they may have dropped them off without signature if they knew they got damaged and didn't want to accept responsibility so there are so many variations to this transaction but Ulf, my German business contact will speak to seller before we decided what to do next.

 

I really didn't want people to fall out over my dilemma, unfortunately it's difficult to understand someone from a forum than real life and one of my reasons I questioned the content in my post as I could tell if was a fine line but I understood all comments.

 

If it changes the mood, I now have a my feisty girlfriend Barb saying, " are these wheels going to become part of the furniture" and GET THEM OUT OF HERE!

 

Waiting to hear back shortly on the sellers opinion.

 

Rams

[Butterfly 0]

The thread is getting well off track in places...

Jamie has acknowledged he misread my statement and inferred I was expressing an opinion on how to deal with the issue and not merely commenting on the 'solution' of there being a tracking device on the van!

 

If anyone wants to continue the discussion on WHO should or shouldn't be allowed to voice an opinion on the issue in question of this thread can they start a new one and leave this for people wanting to answer the original question itself?

Thanks.

[Imgolfman 0]

Hi, I'm a courier. Leaving them outside like that is stupid but if it's safe to do so, I always leave parcels as I feel I'm doing the customer a favour so they get the parcel straight away. Saying you havent received could result in the driver being sacked. Whoever has the account with the courier company needs to put in a claim :)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Critical_Mass 10]

 

My dad said to me that they may have dropped them off without signature if they knew they got damaged and didn't want to accept responsibility so there are so many variations to this transaction but Ulf, my German business contact will speak to seller before we decided what to do next.

 

Exactly what i was suggesting above.

 

At the end of the day it would have been easier to leave them no signature then be able to deny the damage rather than you inspecting them.

[DriverVR6 11]

Rams, don't know what you paid for the wheels, but sometimes it's better just to put it down to experience. I've bought lots of stuff off forums, ebay, private ads, etc and the fact is that you sometimes get a bad deal. I just then don't ever buy from that person again, and hope to run into them again in the future when the tables have turned, but then that's just my way of looking at it and dealing with it.

 

Hope you get it sorted out to your satisfaction.

[MattPc 0]

Hi guys

 

My wheels arrived today from German. First of all, they were in my driveway and only found this out when my girlfriend was leaving and she said there's 2 big boxes outside with your name on them.

 

So excitedly I ran down stairs and brought them up into my apartment and was instantly thinking, the packaging is a bit doggy but got them out of the 2 boxes and they are all badly damaged.

 

Buckled is not the word!

 

So my contact in German advises me to say they didn't arrive as nobody signed for anything. Not my preferred route. But the wheels looked and were described by the seller to be in very good condition.

 

The sellers pictures show a nice set of wheels and I'm thinking they were damaged in transport. But who is responsible? The seller? Or the transport company? Also if the transport company, is that this side or the German side?

 

They were not packed that well, one box was worse that the other and when lifting the box the rim was dropping down into the cardboard making it easy to dent if it's hit a hard surface.

 

I'm really disappointed but would like to know what I should do. Otherwise, will need all new dishes unless these can be fixed but that's stage 2 of my questioning.

 

Any advise welcomed.

 

Rams

 

[ATTACH]65145[/ATTACH][ATTACH]65149[/ATTACH][ATTACH]65153[/ATTACH][ATTACH]65157[/ATTACH][ATTACH]65161[/ATTACH]

 

 

Rams,

 

I have had a similar situation recently, where I purchased a welder. I booked the courier myself with the addition of insurance. when the box arrived it was damaged so I took some pictures, I then opened it to find the welder had been dropped on one of the corners, twisting the chassis and damaging the internal components.

 

the courier I booked the service with had guidelines on packaging, which were adhered to, most courier companies have this information available to the consumer.

 

I then contacted the courier to explain what had happened and started a claim procedure, this evolved a short description of what the issue was, and to send them multiple photos of the box, the contents and all the damage. They then asked if i could sort out getting a quote for repair and replacement, and supplied these details to them.

 

the courier company will then look at the options and pick the best one, in my case I was able to get the welder repaired as it was considerably cheaper than replacing or repaying the the amount it cost me. I was then sent a cheque to the repair amount. I then sent the welder to the UK registered repair center for repair, and it is now as good as new.

 

Hope that will clear up some of your questions.

 

Regards

Matt

[WigsVR6 0]

It's irrelevant.. I said it last time and I'll say it again, she stated no preference for either the moral or immoral option.. to quote the post:

 

 

 

I can't see anything in there either advocating (or disagreeing) about claiming that the wheels were not delivered. It's a simple statement of fact about how the courier company works. People seem to be pointing a lot of fingers about something that wasn't even said, or even implied! Oh, and Butterfly isn't even a Mod here.. she's just a user.

 

That's exactly how I understood Butterfly's response. It was a statement of fact rather than influencing anyone's action. I only mentioned the tracker as it could "weaken" the argument of not receiving the items. Butterfly was indeed correct about proof of delivery with no signature is the ultimate test.

 

The delivery driver is the last part of the chain and the wheels could of been damaged at any point. If he's put them on his vehicle already damaged then its going to look bad on him when he makes that knock on the door. But he should of given Rams the opportunity to refuse delivery rather than just dumping them on the drive and that is down to his own integrity.

 

Hope you get it sorted quickly.

 

Alan

[Rams 0]

Little update.

 

I've taken the wheels to a good friend of mine and he said he would ask some he knows about fixing. He then told me about someone that does polishing and is superb. The dishes need a re polish as there are some scratches which I did know about from the seller.

 

I've now got an email address from seller wife's as he was at work and sent him an email in German translated by another German friend of mine.

 

I then received a text from my friend saying a price to have them split, the wheel totally re polished and to have the insides all cleaned up and painted. I then said but lets see if the dishes can be fixed otherwise it's probably cheaper for me to buy anther set. He replied, I've fixed the wheels already. So my friend is a legend, probably knew that he would sort them anyway but I know how he operates. He never brags about anything and probably won't accept anything for doing it but will buy him a nice present to say thank you.

 

So I will have virtually a brand new set of wheels, fully polished and just need to buy sealer and refit dishes. In the mean time, I'm going to see what the seller will do and if he can cover costs for damage or transport company and if anything comes it will all help.

 

So managed to turn around a bad situation into something positive and my Friend Kev said they definitely look like they've been dropped but he said it didn't take him long to sort. The smaller dink was harder to get out than the larger bend.

 

Will update regarding seller/transport soon as I hear more.

 

A few pics of the polishers work.

[jamiehamy 0]

Result!!