What is the point on bigger disc setups?

[timmaaah 0]

I'm after some reasons as to why bigger brakes equal better braking.

 

I can make the ABS kick in with my standard brakes. This kicks in when the wheels start to lock up. Fitting bigger brakes can only reduce the braking effort needed on the brake pedal, they can't improve the mechanical grip from the tyres. Bigger brakes can never make the car stop quicker, only reduce the effort needed on the brake pedal.

 

What is the appeal of fitting larger brakes?

 

Cheers :)

Edited August 28, 2012 by timmaaah

[owen g60 10]

It's a simple case of leverage/centrifugal motion.

 

The further away from a pivot point the less effort involved.

 

The closer to the edge of a spinning object the force is applied the easier and quicker it stops.... Go spin the drum on a washing machine and try to stop it with your hand near the centre of the drum then do the same thing near the lip.

 

You will then see the theory in practice

[timmaaah 0]

It's a simple case of leverage/centrifugal motion.

 

The further away from a pivot point the less effort involved.

 

The closer to the edge of a spinning object the force is applied the easier and quicker it stops.... Go spin the drum on a washing machine and try to stop it with your hand near the centre of the drum then do the same thing near the lip.

 

You will then see the theory in practice

 

So as I said, bigger brakes = less pedal pressure/effort - it doesn't make the car stop any quicker, yes?

[OllieVR6 0]

Well actually, the science is behind heat dissipation. Bigger disks have bigger pads. More surface area means they can stop the car with less effort which equals less heat. Less heat means better overall performance and less chance of brake fade.

[timmaaah 0]

Well actually, the science is behind heat dissipation. Bigger disks have bigger pads. More surface area means they can stop the car with less effort which equals less heat. Less heat means better overall performance and less chance of brake fade.

 

So in real world normal road terms, there is no difference? If you have brake fade on GB roads, you are driving too fast. Regardless - bigger brakes cannot stop your car quicker than smaller brakes - that is dictated by mechanical tyre grip.

 

To recap - bigger brakes DO NOT make your car stop any quicker? Yes?

 

---------- Post added at 12:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 AM ----------

 

To elucidate - I am fed up with people saying how they have put a bigger disc and calliper on and how much 'better' the brakes are. This is a complete and total fallacy. It matters not how big your brakes are. Bigger brakes will need less pedal effort but can not increase the amount of 'brake' that is generated - it's your tyres that do that.

Edited August 28, 2012 by timmaaah

[OllieVR6 0]

Well there's a reason faster cars have bigger brakes :thumbleft:

[timmaaah 0]

Well there's a reason faster cars have bigger brakes :thumbleft:

 

Which is....?

 

Are you saying that bigger discs on a 'Rado make it stop quicker?

 

If you can activate the ABS with standard brakes please explain how bigger discs and callipers can make the car stop quicker.

[OllieVR6 0]

Check this out:

 

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-parts/brake-upgrades3.htm

[timmaaah 0]

Check this out:

 

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-parts/brake-upgrades3.htm

 

I have already talked about fade - please explain how bigger brakes can MAKE A CAR STOP QUICKER. You cannot brake more than the ABS lets you.

[lewvw 10]

Bigger brakes make faster, safer braking easier. There, said it :)

[timmaaah 0]

Bigger brakes make faster, safer braking easier. There, said it :)

 

How? Please explain. Standard brakes will activate the ABS - at that point your braking is dictated by the mechanical grip from your tyres. Please explain how bigger brakes can negate the ABS and the grip from your tyres :)

[OllieVR6 0]

Well here's a page that supports what you're saying:

 

http://www.autos.com/aftermarket-parts/why-a-big-brake-kit-wont-make-your-car-stop-faster

 

It depends really how you interpret what people say. For example:

"I am fed up with people saying how they have put a bigger disc and calliper on and how much 'better' the brakes are."

 

That could be taken to mean quicker or, 'more effectively and consistently'. As you say, technically 'quicker' is wrong but 'better' can be considered correct.

[timmaaah 0]

So all that bigger brakes do is reduce pedal effort? (caveat - unless you are hooning it around a race track where you need optimal cooling).

 

How can bigger brakes negate the ABS on your motor? How can they be 'better'? You won't stop any quicker :)

[lewvw 10]

How? Please explain. Standard brakes will activate the ABS - at that point your braking is dictated by the mechanical grip from your tyres. Please explain how bigger brakes can negate the ABS and the grip from your tyres :)

 

Anyone can lock up the ABS at low speed, but if you are doing 100mph and need to stop fast then bigger brakes will slow you down more effectively. Even when the ABS is working bigger brakes will be slowing you faster.

[OllieVR6 0]

I guess it depends who you talk to. I have the front brakes from a Golf VR6 waiting to be fitted to get some extra 'bite' as the standard brakes feel a bit pants compared to modern cars.

 

If I was running an R32 or FI I would upgrade to some 312's or even 4 pots. If the car can go faster than it was designed to then a brake upgrade should also be fitted so that you continue to get effective and consistent braking (see what I did there? )

[timmaaah 0]

Anyone can lock up the ABS at low speed, but if you are doing 100mph and need to stop fast then bigger brakes will slow you down more effectively. Even when the ABS is working bigger brakes will be slowing you faster.

 

Press the pedal hard enough and the ABS will kick in at whatever speed. Please explain how bigger brakes slow you down more effectively.

 

---------- Post added at 12:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 AM ----------

 

I guess it depends who you talk to. I have the front brakes from a Golf VR6 waiting to be fitted to get some extra 'bite' as the standard brakes feel a bit pants compared to modern cars.

 

If I was running an R32 or FI I would upgrade to some 312's or even 4 pots. If the car can go faster than it was designed to then a brake upgrade should also be fitted so that you continue to get effective and consistent braking (see what I did there? )

 

Please explain how bigger brakes can negate the ABS. Thanks :)

[lewvw 10]

How can bigger brakes negate the ABS on your motor? How can they be 'better'? You won't stop any quicker :)

 

You will because the ABS is pulsing a bigger caliper with more friction material on a bigger disc. Therefore you WILL stop faster. If bigger brakes are not better then why did VW fit massive brakes to an R32, why not just 1.4se brakes?

[timmaaah 0]

You will because the ABS is pulsing a bigger caliper with more friction material on a bigger disc. Therefore you WILL stop faster. If bigger brakes are not better then why did VW fit massive brakes to an R32, why not just 1.4se brakes?

 

So - how can bigger brakes make you stop quicker when you DON'T use ABS, bearing in mind that the mechanical grip from the tyres is constant, regardless of brake size.

Edited August 28, 2012 by timmaaah

[owen g60 10]

You will because the ABS is pulsing a bigger caliper with more friction material on a bigger disc. Therefore you WILL stop faster. If bigger brakes are not better then why did VW fit massive brakes to an R32, why not just 1.4se brakes?

 

this is what i was looking for...

 

If for example the ABS will pulse 30 times on one rotation of a standard rotor.... if you go bigger it will then pulse maybe 45 times on the larger one.

 

You are therefor applying more barking force per one rotation of a wheel and will slow quicker

 

---------- Post added at 12:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 AM ----------

 

So - how can bigger brakes make you stop quicker when you DON'T use ABS?

 

because usually you come off the brakes when you start to skid then re apply... or is that just me?? basically doing the same function as the abs

[bristolbaron 10]

one of us isnt clever enough for this conversation, but im not sure which. im out.

[timmaaah 0]

this is what i was looking for...

 

If for example the ABS will pulse 30 times on one rotation of a standard rotor.... if you go bigger it will then pulse maybe 45 times on the larger one.

 

You are therefor applying more barking force per one rotation of a wheel and will slow quicker

 

---------- Post added at 12:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 AM ----------

 

 

because usually you come off the brakes when you start to skid then re apply... or is that just me?? basically doing the same function as the abs

 

You cannot negate the mechanical grip from the tyres.

 

Please see my edit:

 

So - how can bigger brakes make you stop quicker when you DON'T use ABS, bearing in mind that the mechanical grip from the tyres is constant, regardless of brake size.

[Goldie 2]

My take is less effort for comparible or increased amounts of friction without causing then disc to be stationary, therefore no lock up and activation of the ABS. As stated all to do with leverage across the disc and increased pad contact either through larger pad and or more force being applied through more pistons..

 

In short they just are better, thats why super cars have brakes that are bigger than our wheels...

[timmaaah 0]

one of us isnt clever enough for this conversation, but im not sure which. im out.

 

Bye?

[OllieVR6 0]

one of us isnt clever enough for this conversation, but im not sure which. im out.

 

Yeah I'm off to bed :)

[owen g60 10]

as per my first post... the closer to the edge of a spinning object the braking force is applied the quicker it will stop.

 

however if you lock the wheels then there is no improvement.

 

 

if your theory is correct that they are no better then why before ABS did higher performance cars have bigger brakes that a small MK1 golf for example?