crap steering

[deamon90002004 10]

hey all, i would like some advice as to what could be wrong with my steering on my standard 91 g60 (early spec), it's mainly in the wet i have issues, i have good tyres with enough tread, but the car just wants to slide wide at the front on the bends even at 40 and it scares the hell out of me, my golf which had the same tyres and went around the same bends at 60+,

 

things i have noticed are

 

sit still and turn the wheel to the left i can feel a small clunk (but loud enough for my passenger to hear) and when i straighten back up and when you turn to the right after half a turn

 

bit of a numb feeling through the steering wheel (but im used to no power steering) but the car still feels like it has a bit of weight when turning

 

checked my tread depth and on the n/s/f the inner is worn slightly more and o/s/f is about equal across the tread

 

car tracks true

 

when im going through the lanes i feel like im being pulled all over the place and it gives me no confidence to drive quick

 

i did read about changing all lower ball joints and track rod ends, but i've been quoted by my local vw specialist about £300 to do that work, and i don't want to go through all that if it wont help

[davidwort 0]

Sounds like knackered wishbone bushes, but could be partly track rod inner joints, outer joints, dampers, roll bar links... Best get a garage to inspect it thoroughly if you can't diagnose it.

[Diamond Hell 0]

If it's 'narrow track' and you're handy with a welder and have workshop equipment access you can improve things a lot.

 

Replace the bushes with OEM quality, but replace the rear ones with MKI TT control arm bushes. These are solid, bunded rubber and will make the steering a lot pointier and take a significant amount of slop out. They push right in.

 

Before you put the new bushes in, clean the control arm up and then stitch-weld it - 1" of weld, then 2" of no welding. The standard control arms are only spot-welded together and are pretty sloppy. Again this will tighten things up further.

 

People have already said replace the ball-joints and track rod ends, but only do this if they're sloppy. Replace the anti-roll-bar drop links while you're there, they're cheap and they get sloppy too.

 

Any idea how your top mounts are, condition-wise? If they're shot go get a top-of-spring upwards assembly from a Golf3 in a scrapyard (make sure you have the same size spring top as you currently have) and buy new top mounts for that set up - it is more simple and robust and takes out the stupid castlated nut on top of the strut.

 

Finally, the biggest difference you will make to the handling is getting the front end aligned properly. As already mentioned in another thread, for road I'd go -1.5 degrees of camber and 0 toe - if you can't do your own alignment, take it to Protyre, or similar and give them those specs. They should also be able to tell you the full alignment of the car front to back and side to side, so you know whether you're all tracking straight. All this should even your tyre wear out and you should find the car turns in a lot sharper and nicer.... unless you drive like a pussy, in which case the inside of your front tyres will wear a touch faster than the outside of them.

[VAG-hag 0]

Check that your steering rack is secured too

[davidwort 0]

...

Before you put the new bushes in, clean the control arm up and then stitch-weld it - 1" of weld, then 2" of no welding. The standard control arms are only spot-welded together and are pretty sloppy. Again this will tighten things up further.

...

 

that's interesting , I've heard of seam welding subframes and wishbones before, possibly increasing vibration if you do the main rear subframe, but aren't the wishbones designed to crumple when hitting a kerb etc?

[Dox 23]

Any advisories on your last MOT for worn suspension or steering components?

[Yandards 0]

If you do start swapping out suspension rubber components then make sure you do all of them at the same time.

 

The reason is that by fitting one/two new bushes etc they will take up the slack in the existing worn bushes causing them to wear out faster.

 

A complete new set followed by a bit of 4 wheel alignment action to cover camber as well as tracking makes a world of difference.

[Diamond Hell 0]

aren't the wishbones designed to crumple when hitting a kerb etc?

 

Yes and that's why I'm directing you to weld 1" and leave 2" gaps. This is what I did on mine and when I got taken out on the 'ring at 100mph in Oct 2012 the control arm folded where it should and there was no damage to the main subframe of the car. Here's the bent control arm and an undamaged one for comparison:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]76757[/ATTACH]

 

 

Works for me :thumbleft:

[deamon90002004 10]

Apparently the car was stored from 2005 till about augustthis year but passed on the mot with no issues, which is annoying cos my exhaust rubbers have been replaced too many times with the pipes not meeting correctly and blowing, so im thinking thr guy i bought it from may have done a deal with tester and missed alot, but i can get new control arms on the front with new bushes off ebay, did that on my golf and was amazing to turn in, do you think it might be worth going polly bush all round?

[davidwort 0]

Standard bushes are fine, you just want everything new

[Diamond Hell 0]

Don't polybush, especially not the back bushes on the control arms. They are significantly inferior to the TT bushes, which not only improve the steering feel and turn in, but are also particularly hard-wearing.

[Yandards 0]

Poly bushes will also wear the wishbone arm Bush hole oval as they are too stiff and the rear Bush is designed to move.

[deamon90002004 10]

I was looking at ebay for wishbone bushes and ones there is ones fitted with r32 bushes, would that be an option to go with te tt rear bushes?

[dragon green 5]

I was looking at ebay for wishbone bushes and ones there is ones fitted with r32 bushes, would that be an option to go with te tt rear bushes?

 

I've got the R32 bush mod on mine

[deamon90002004 10]

I've got the R32 bush mod on mine

 

What do you think to the mod? Does it feel really good?

[sexybourbon 0]

Whats the difference between the tt and the r32 bush

 

Does stitch welding make that much difference ? Do you have any pics of the quality of welds ? I have all the equipment to do this just need to polish up on my welding i havent done anything for a while

[dragon green 5]

What do you think to the mod? Does it feel really good?

 

I replaced top mounts,ARB links,ball joints at the same time,trouble is the weather changed,so I put the snow tyres on !

I take it easy with them on,so I can't really comment,first impression is,feels the same.

[deamon90002004 10]

i think i may have found my issue, the inner edge on both tyres are bald and now worn down to the limit markers :/

[Diamond Hell 0]

Whats the difference between the tt and the r32 bush

 

Possibly the R32 bush fits the wide-track control arms and the TT one fits the narrow-track control arms?

 

 

Does stitch welding make that much difference ? Do you have any pics of the quality of welds ? I have all the equipment to do this just need to polish up on my welding i havent done anything for a while

 

I think it'll make a bigger difference to the narrow-track control arms - they're an older design and they're less robust.

 

This is how I welded the control arms:

 

 

I also did quite a bit of work around the end where the large bush is.

 

I've done a couple of sets since and I'm about to strip down those on my Corrado and strengthen and re-bush them too.

 

Then I have the rear beam bushes to do...

[deamon90002004 10]

Righty, ive had tyres changed big help on the grip and tracking set, but told i have play in the top mounts, best to get g60 ones or go for uprated from like a vr6?

[VAG-hag 0]

Whats the difference between the tt and the r32

 

Think they are the same buddy