Steering drift / loose steering?

[Thursdave 10]

Hi folks. I've noticed that lately on my G60 the steering seems to 'drift' when going around a corner.

 

very difficult to describe, but basically what happens is when you turn in, it'll go where you want, but then with the steering wheel in the same position, the car un-steers itself (or goes more straight), so you have to steer further in to remain on the same line.

 

when you've finished turning the wheel will be centred at a different angle than it was before you started turning, so it's not the tracking (otherwise, as i understand it, it'd be off consistently?)

 

I'm flummoxed! I've checked the power steering fluid, and that seems fine - I did notice that both the track rods and the track rod ends look fairly rusted while I was changing the front brakes. Would it be a good idea to get these changed?

 

Could it be something like the actual rack mount rubbers letting go and letting the rack itself move slightly?

 

Cheers for the help!

 

Dave

[VAG-hag 0]

Check for a loose rack I had similar symptoms :)

[Thursdave 10]

you mean a faulty rack itself, or the mounts?

[STU175 0]

i had this happen when the u clamp that holds rack to the subframe wasnt done up tight enough.

the rack can move slightly. i tightened them up and it solved the problem

[VAG-hag 0]

Yeah make sure its clamped down

[Thursdave 10]

Sweet. Tricky job to do or can I do it on my drive?

[VAG-hag 0]

Axle stands and a couple of spanners is all you need

[davidwort 0]

as it's a G60 I'd check the top mounts on the front suspension struts, do you have any uneven tyre wear?

other things to check are inner track rod joints, where they screw into the rack - put car on full lock, engine off and rock steering slightly and get someone to listen for a slight clunk

wishbone bushes, drop links, arb mounts, engine mounts.

[Thursdave 10]

Tyre wear looks even, and the whole front suspension is new, so shouldn't be that.

I'll have a check of the rack mounts this weekend and go from there.

Thanks for all the help guys :)

[VAG-hag 0]

:D

[Jim Bowen 1]

Also worth checking the rear axle bushes i had some strange steering and found the bushes were totally buggered.

[PhillStorm 10]

Hi Dave,

 

I was just wondering what your steering problem turned out to be, I have the same symptom combined with a knocking/grinding noise. There is side to side play in the wheel and I'm sure I can feel movement at the rack end of the track rod bush , beyond the inner rod joint. I know this seems unlikely but I'm thinking new rack?

 

Also, I've checked the bolts that hold the rack onto the subframe too, they seem plenty tight enough.

[Thursdave 10]

Hi Dave,

 

I was just wondering what your steering problem turned out to be, I have the same symptom combined with a knocking/grinding noise. There is side to side play in the wheel and I'm sure I can feel movement at the rack end of the track rod bush , beyond the inner rod joint. I know this seems unlikely but I'm thinking new rack?

 

Also, I've checked the bolts that hold the rack onto the subframe too, they seem plenty tight enough.

 

 

I actually only got round to this this weekend! I checked the bolts holding the rack to the subframe, and did tighten them up slightly (only about half a turn each) and it's no better.

 

I did notice my PAS fluid was only just over the minimum so I topped that up a bit just a precaution, now about 75% between min and max.

 

It's still doing it! It's a really wierd feeling. Going to get a tech to look at it, I'm wondering whether it's the trackrods or maybe something to do with the PAS system itself, maybe a dodgy pump? I had to run it with very little tension for a while due to snapping the tensioner bolt, and thinking back, it was fine before that.

 

Could a dodgy pump cause this issue? I'd guess it builds the pressure then can't hold it, and so the steering 'un steers'?

 

Are there any pressure valves in the steering system?

[Dox 23]

PAS = Power Assisted Steering, there's still a physical connection between all components in the steering system as a failsafe.

 

If I understand correctly after turning in either direction after negotiating the bend the steering wheel is no longer in the same position (normally straight ahead) as before the turn?

 

Look for signs of the rack moving on it mounting - the bolts may be tight but are they actually holding the rack securely?

 

Use a pry bar on the wishbone by the rear bush - are the bolts holding the wishbones securely?

 

Are the engine / suspension subframe bolts tight and holding the subframe securely?

[Thursdave 10]

PAS = Power Assisted Steering, there's still a physical connection between all components in the steering system as a failsafe.

 

If I understand correctly after turning in either direction after negotiating the bend the steering wheel is no longer in the same position (normally straight ahead) as before the turn?

 

Look for signs of the rack moving on it mounting - the bolts may be tight but are they actually holding the rack securely?

 

Use a pry bar on the wishbone by the rear bush - are the bolts holding the wishbones securely?

 

Are the engine / suspension subframe bolts tight and holding the subframe securely?

 

Yeah, that's a good way of describing it. If you go into a left bend, wheels straight, steering wheel top at 12'o'clock, once you come out the other side and put wheels straight, the steering wheel top will be at 11'o'clock, and then when you go round a right hand corner, afterwards the top of the steering wheel will be at 1'o'clock, and so on and so forth, the speed and angle of the corner seems to affect the position of the steering wheel afterwards, so a fast, tight-ish left hander (like a slip road off a big roundabout) will leave the steering wheel offset more than a slight bend at 25/30mph.

 

I'll try and drop the subframe at somepoint and give it a good look over.

[PhillStorm 10]

Update:

I needed new tyres anyway and when I had the wheels off to change the tyres and with no weight on either wheel it was easy to see the play I could feel was the lower ball joints.

 

It's definitely worth checking because I had a very similar problem to you and they are cheap. I paid £18 per side for lemforder. It was actually only one side that needed doing/causing the steering problem but I changed both.

 

Just as a note about PAS pumps. Mine sprung a leak after being damaged by a speed bump and I ran it dry for a couple of months (easy install but expensive part). Just before I bought a new one I patched it up with some quick steel. It ran like new until the quick steel failed. There's a lot of talk about damaging PAS pumps with the wrong fluid or with low levels but I didn't see any of that after driving daily without any fluid for a good while.

 

The reason I mention it is because at no point did it affect the steering. Sure the steering was heavier but there was no sensation of drift or un-steer.

 

The reason I suspected a bad rack for this steering issues is because I ran it without fluid for so long, however after diagnosing the ball joints, the rack seems completely unaffected.

 

Good luck anyway.

[Thursdave 10]

Hmm, OK. I've got tyres to change as well, so I'll have a check when they're off! Was it the lower arm ball joint (that goes into the bottom of the hub/steering knuckle) or the track rod joints?

[Dox 23]

What happens to the steering wheel position if you brake heavily? Accelerate (or brake heavily in reverse - on a car park with lots of room etc) quickly from standstill?

[davidwort 0]

the rack is just that, a rack, it's a toothed bar with a tie rod screwed in either end, nothing can move really and it would be pretty obvious if the rack mounting bolts had come loose!

I still reckon it's one or more of the following:

suspension top mounts shifting

inner tie rod joint play (where they screw into the rack)

worn wishbone bushes

[PhillStorm 10]

Hmm, OK. I've got tyres to change as well, so I'll have a check when they're off! Was it the lower arm ball joint (that goes into the bottom of the hub/steering knuckle) or the track rod joints?

 

The lower arm ball joints,

 

There's a sticky on here somewhere about how much they can affect the handling on corrados

[Wullie 1]

Bear in mind that although the rack mounting bolts may be tight the actual rubber rack bushes might be shot and allowing the rack to move.

[davidwort 0]

Bear in mind that although the rack mounting bolts may be tight the actual rubber rack bushes might be shot and allowing the rack to move.

I dunno, I've had both types of rack rubber mounts off Corrados and they're not like an engine mount they take no stress they simply help reduce vibration and allow a small amount of subframe flex. they don't seem to wear at all from what I've seen, but I'd be interested to see one otherwise.

[STU175 0]

I dunno, I've had both types of rack rubber mounts off Corrados and they're not like an engine mount they take no stress they simply help reduce vibration and allow a small amount of subframe flex. they don't seem to wear at all from what I've seen, but I'd be interested to see one otherwise.

 

my one did however tight i done it up the rack it still moved slightly.

i fitted a poly one which solved the problem.

i didnt have as bigger issue as described above tho just a little bit of movement that was minor but annoying

[Thursdave 10]

OK, so for the past few weeks I've been slowly accumulating parts to get to the bottom of this, I ordered in new VW ball joints, front wishbone bushes, R32/TT rear wishbone bushes (because upgrade), ARB drop links, tyres and complete track rods with ends (from Heritage, obsolete from VW :()

 

Yesterday I got around to starting to fit things in a methodical way - I figured I can do one thing at once and by trial and error work out what the problem was.

 

So I started off by fitted the track rods, as quite frankly, they were easiest! Once they were on, I can do the ball joints next weekend, then the bushes, so on and so forth, but guess what!

 

The track rods fixed my issue of the steering losing it's centre! I've now got to track it up (and change rear axle bushes as the rear end is a bit skittery) but it's miles better already.

 

Thought you lot would like to know :)