1.8T vs VR6

[Dub Style 0]

okay so lets hear it, wot are the good and the bad bits of both engines, which is more tunable.............i'm soooo tempted for a 20vt transplant but dont wanna regret it......

[bcstudent 0]

Based on the lush driving position and handling of the Corrado combined with the power delivery and performance of my mum's 53-reg Leon Cupra (180bhp) I really can't imagine a better combination. However, I've always prefered the whizz-bang performance of blower-enhanced motors as opposed to the sheer grunt of larger capacity engines.

 

The 20vT is way more tunable in my opinion and for a relatively small amount of cash. This, however, also depends on your donor engine...i.e. 150bhp, 180bhp, 210bhp, 225bhp. I, personally, am holding out for a 225bhp motor as I believe it's worth the wait.

[PhatVR6 0]

I'd rather poke my eyes out with a shitty stick than swap my VR for a 1.8T.

[crazymarcel 0]

Nothing beats the sound of a VR, probley the more expensive to tune, with a turbo on though would imagine it has a bit of go.

 

1.8t sounds :( but probley cheaper to tune and maybe more reliable being a newer engine.

 

You wanna R32 engine

[coullstar 0]

I'd rather poke my eyes out with a s***** stick than swap my VR for a 1.8T.

 

Enough said. Soulless engine in my view. The 20vt is 100 times more tuneable but it just has no character.

[Robbo149 0]

I'm having a dlemma too at the mo. whether to keep ploughing money into my VR or take on a little 20VT Mk4 Polo project I have in mind!

 

The 20VT is highly tuneable, & relatively cheaply. The VR6 ain't the most durable engine VW ever made (especially now most are over 10 years old and have done 100k+. But you only have to drive a sweetly running :roll: VR to realise how addictive they are! The best things in life are usually somewhat flawed :wink:

 

Cheers,

Robbo

[Rossco 0]

20VT all the way, natural progression from the G60 i rekon

[ruffy 0]

I'd rather poke my eyes out with a s***** stick than swap my VR for a 1.8T.

 

I luv this discussion it cracks me up every time .. :lol:

 

All those die hard vr6 boys..

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I'd rather poke my eyes out with a s***** stick than swap my VR for a 1.8T.

 

Yep, I would agree with Paul's rather eloquantly put comment........ :lol:

 

My own preference, having already done my turbo engine stint, would be to bore the VR to 3.0, Shrick Big valve head, etc etc...... It's a unique engine and adds a lot of character to the car. It is after all the main reason why the VR6 Corrado sold so well....because of the engine.

 

But if you're not bothered about engine tone, the 1.8T can deliver some mighty outputs if built properly.

 

So many people assume it's just a case of banging a chip in the 1.8T and bingo, you've got 30093 bhp. It's urban myth. Chip a TT 225 engine with a Revo or similar and 250-260 is good going with the standard intercooling. All this carp from ShabbaSport about 280-300 is rot.

 

You need to A) look at the turbo size, blade pitch etc etc, B) intercooling and C) Air and fuel and potentially water injection. I don't know what the internals can handle but they may need upgrading too, depending on boost levels.

 

So it's not a cheap option at all.

 

If you want around 250 bhp, then yeah. More requires more work and expense.

[Trilidon 0]

1.8t is a great engine. Built to handle tons of boost already.

 

Not sure why it doesn't have character or what gives an engine character. I think its the overall car that is the character..

 

1.8t is a *very* fun engine. like the G60 you get alot more bang for your buck with it. If you want to go the distance VR6 might be better, but getting a 1.8t to 300 whp is doable and honestly not to much work.

[20v turbo 0]

i agree with the fact that 1.8t has no character,when you listen to a vr6 you know straight away what it is and you know its going to shif listen to mine and until it dumps the charge air it well could be a n/a 1600,the g60 is a tottaly different sound but again very distinctive especially hennys with that toothed belt f++king sounds great 8)

but as for the 1.8t being no fun to drive well i think its more fun than my g60 was apart from the wheel spin :x and as for modding its far cheaper to obtain 280 300bhp than with a vr6

 

just my opinion

[PhatVR6 0]

I'd rather poke my eyes out with a s***** stick than swap my VR for a 1.8T.

 

I luv this discussion it cracks me up every time .. :lol:

 

All those die hard vr6 boys..

 

have you noticed how it's always the 1.8T owners and wannabe's who bring it up though, and not actually the VR owners, who are usually generally very happy with their cars.

[CoxyLaad 0]

I had a 1.8T

then I sold it to get a VR6

 

now I have a V6 24v

I wouldnt change back to the 1.8T

I found it fun but tiring.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

have you noticed how it's always the 1.8T owners and wannabe's who bring it up though, and not actually the VR owners, who are usually generally very happy with their cars.

 

Are you a regular again now Paul? You've been quiet recently.

 

Yeah this is one of those topics that always gets a good debate going!

 

I personally feel Corrados should retain the engine they were given. The cult status and heritage of the VR unit in the Corrado is half it's appeal and it's just not right taking that out and putting an engine that sounds like a sewing machine in it's place.

 

I prefer Henny's approach. Take the original engine and give it bags more go. All the wiring is all there, it's how VW intended and it's easier to sell on.

[Guest]

I've got both, VR6 and 1.8T, both 'fiddled' with.

 

Would I replace my VR6 engine with a 1.8T? - No.

 

Would I replace any other Corrado 4-pot engine with a 1.8T? - Yes, without hesitation, subject to the following caveat :

 

There is absolutely no point (cost vs. benefit) in a 1.8T transplant unless you intend to go over 250bhp.

[Dub Style 0]

I think it comes down to expense really, i mean the VR6 is a big lump so you've got to have far more potential over a 1.8 its just that every thing is so damn expensive when upgrading, maybe giv it a few more years and you'll see more kits supercharger/ turbo etc but cheaper.................personally i think if a vr6 should be used to full potential you need use the engine Capacity more by taking away all fiddly sensors etc and use the block to its full potential.........................like you've all heard 'Size does matter'.......... :D

[Jim 2]

If both of the engines behaved exactly the same, were equally reliable, offered up identical performance and cost the same to run, i'd take the VR6 engine ANY day. The sound of the VR6 engine really does take some beating in both untuned, and tuned shape.

[dr_mat 0]

Well I wasn't going to bother posting to this thread. It's obvious for those that are regulars on here that I'm more into keeping the car relatively standard, and that I bought a VR6 cos it's the only VW engine worth having (except maybe the W12.. which is based on the VR6 anyway..). :)

 

The VR6 retains an element of exclusivity, and has a touch of the subtle about it. There's nothing subtle or particularly clever about the 1.8T - it's just a competent blower engine, and EVERYONE has one. The VR6 in 12v form hasn't exactly taken the world by storm (ahem) and therefore it's a much rarer and sought-after beast. It's also gloriously smooth, it has a fabulous but SUBTLE engine note that the average man on the street would barely even notice if it went past them at 5k revs with a wide open throttle. It's that stealth mode that is the most interesting.

 

There's *enough* performance out of the box on the VR6 to keep you entertained (though it really does benefit from the wider torque band with the VSR), though of course it's not the fastest "mass market" car on the road now (TWELVE YEARS later!!!).

 

It is probably one of the coolest, however... :) 8)

 

For me, the Corrado *is* the Corrado VR6, and although I can understand the appeal of the Corrado with the other engines, they just aren't the real thing IMHO. And that goes for G60s, 16vs and 1.8Ts aswell.

 

I'm just fortunate enough that my credit card company gives me enough credit line to RUN a VR6!!! :)

[Jim 2]

Hm some fair points dr_mat - but it always seems that for VR6 owners, the Corrado 'is' the VR6. I guess I am in a reasonably good position in that I can say I have owned a 2.0 16v, a G60 and have driven a few VR6's. I personally feel that in fettled form the G60 is just as good as the VR6 for a few reasons.. the only thing it lacks is the V6 snarl which makes the VR6 engine for me.

 

But the G60 does make a totally different sound which is equally pleasing, believe me.. as you pull through 2000, 2500, 3000 and then onto 3500RPM the engine just seems to change its note to something not unlike rally car or something and the noise just becomes so addictive. I quite often find myself just dawling up to that 3500RPM point just to hear the change in engine note, whilst trying to surpress that huge smile on my face.

 

But engines aside i've always tried to like the Corrado for its shape / design and look past the engine a bit - they all look the same once you detail a few bits and stick some alloys on, and thats what counts for me. The walking away and looking over your shoulder in the car park means as much to me as the booting it down the road side of owning it!

[Robbo149 0]

The walking away and looking over your shoulder in the car park means as much to me as the booting it down the road side of owning it!

 

Excellent point, exactly the thing that makes up my mind to keep my C when I think of selling, even after all the cash I've had to throw at it, it still looks so damned good :roll:

 

Cheers,

Robbo

[LJ 0]

As Dr Mat said, if you've got the VR6 then VSR it!

For a 12yr old car it's still pretty damn quick and the VR6 sounds the dogs bits when at full chat.

 

As for the 1.8T, considering it as a conversion for my G60 as it's cheap'ish for ~250bhp if I can get a 225 unit. The more I consider it though, I love the sound of the G60 too much that I might just go the 16v G60 route and at least have an engine that is different from all those 1.8Ts, still original to the car, and sounds great to me. Now of dreaming of 1.9l 16v G60 engines ...

[emax 0]

I've got both, VR6 and 1.8T, both 'fiddled' with.

 

Would I replace my VR6 engine with a 1.8T? - No.

 

Would I replace any other Corrado 4-pot engine with a 1.8T? - Yes, without hesitation, subject to the following caveat :

 

There is absolutely no point (cost vs. benefit) in a 1.8T transplant unless you intend to go over 250bhp.

 

Which again in a FWD car, you probably wouldn't want to go much over that figure anyway if you wanted the car to remain driveable?

 

I wouldn't dream of swapping my VR for any 4 pot engine - if I felt the urge to have a more powerful car, I'd buy something else.

 

Blue Nothelle? (aka Glenn Cooper unless I'm mistaken?). How's the VR coming along? Been on the track yet with it?

 

If it's you, thanks again last year for your help in diagnosing/resolving my stalling problem :wink:

[ruffy 0]

I'd rather poke my eyes out with a s***** stick than swap my VR for a 1.8T.

 

I luv this discussion it cracks me up every time .. :lol:

 

All those die hard vr6 boys..

 

have you noticed how it's always the 1.8T owners and wannabe's who bring it up though, and not actually the VR owners, who are usually generally very happy with their cars.

 

Look chap I'm happy with my car .. I didn't start the thread.. :roll:

I've got a Vr6 in the garage being rebuilt I have no problems with them.. Just prefer my 1.8t cause they have no character :lol: ..

[Guest]

There's nothing subtle or particularly clever about the 1.8T

 

In that case, perhaps you can explain how to design a 1.8 turbo charged engine that has a very low boost threshold, low lag and a flat torque curve with 80% of peak delivered by 2000RPM. One that can pass EU4 emissions and is durable enough to pass Audi's sign off criteria, namely 180 hours continuous at WOT, peak power RPM, a minimum of 3 times without failure. Then add a basic head & port design good enough to to be used in a N/A version of the same engine allowing it to flow ~74% of the capacity of the 2.9VR6 from ~62% of the displacement.

 

On the contrary, there's a lot that's clever about the VAG 1.8T engine.

[Guest]

Which again in a FWD car, you probably wouldn't want to go much over that figure anyway if you wanted the car to remain driveable?:

 

You'd be surprised Euan, I've driven Guy's car in its current form and it's far from being an undriveable monster. It just feels like a VR6 but with more mid range and top end. You can "light em up" if you treat the throttle like a switch, (it's still on open diff) but it's harder to keep traction in a standard 1.8T in slippery conditions. At these outputs, how you get there is more important than the peak number in driveability terms.

 

How's the VR coming along? Been on the track yet with it?:

 

It's just gone back on the road. It's hasn't been on track yet, I did Donington & Combe in the Ibiza. The VR6 is going to Vince next month for all the 'gearbox-off' work, after which it'll be entering my "lab" ;) for a tug of war over which car gets the development funds first.

 

If it's you, thanks again last year for your help in diagnosing/resolving my stalling problem :wink:

 

De nada, my pleasure.