Speed Cameras cause accidents...?

[Roger Blassberg 0]

personally I dont give a a t0** if the goverment monitor my movements, I've got nothing to hide.

 

At the moment you may not feel that you have.

 

Then, Big Brother decides that something, anything, that you took for granted as your normal, human right, is no longer acceptable (to Him) or can be used as a revenue generator.

 

Too late you realise that you have accepted 24hour surveillance of your movements.

 

We shuddered, shook our heads sagely, when the exposure of the Stasi files showed how the DDR citizens had been spied on from within, how the despots behind the despised Iron Curtain treated their "comrades" in the "workers' paradise". But, of course it could never happen here. This is a free country.

 

Read Orwell (1984) and Huxley(Brave New World). And then think again. How quickly we forget that our freedoms cost the blood of our (recent) ancestors, how easily we let them slide silently away, little by little, under the pretexts of the War Against Terrorism and all the other invented or fabricated crises.

 

"Do as we say and you will have nothing to fear". The Dictator's message down the ages.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

It's not the cameras that 'cause' accidents, it's the drivers. Enjoy the relative freedom they afford whilst you still can. Things are going to get a whole lot worse in years to come.

 

If people panic brake when they see a bright yellow box on the side of the road then they're stupid idiots quite frankly, and there's no point doing that with speed traps either because once you see them, they've already clocked you, so just take the ticket on the chin and not endanger other people's lives by doing emergency stops.

 

What bugs me is the morons that slow down to 60 on motorways when they can merrily pass the camera at 70, or even 85 if you know the region's trigger points, which happens to be 85 (true mph) in most areas due to speedo 'allowances'.

 

We're all warned when a stretch of road has cams (fixed or vans - same sign warns of both), so I just sit at 85 along that stretch. So there really is no excuse for blaming shoddy driving on cameras.

 

Yeah they're cash cows, but the goverment have always hit offenders of any crime where it hurts - in the wallet. So why are cameras so loathed? You can all see them, they're big yellow boxes......just slow down when you see one :-)

[catch_twotwo 0]

We're all warned when a stretch of road has cams (fixed or vans - same sign warns of both), so I just sit at 85 along that stretch.

 

Well this is all well and good, except if you look around you'll see big sections of road with these signs where no speed camera's exist. It's the rule to have a sign within a few miles of a camera or speed trap. It's not the rule to ONLY have them in those locations. They use this warning signs too much and therefore make there warning obsolete.

 

You can all see them, they're big yellow boxes......just slow down when you see one :-)

 

Kev... didn't you just get done saying...

 

If people panic brake when they see a bright yellow box on the side of the road then they're stupid idiots quite frankly

 

Now you say brake when you see one ? you can see peoples dilema here.... what do you do ? it's human conditioning....

 

If drivers didn't just break on instinct in a split second when prompted by visual stimulation, then we'd hit every stupid little kid that wants to run after his shiney red ball. It's an automatic reaction.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Oh come of it, stop being so pedantic. I said "Slow down", not lock the feckin brakes up..... there's a big difference between the two braking methods there, I think you'll agree?

 

The warning sign - They can be erected anywhere where traffic cameras are used. Just because they might use a camera van once in 18 months on said stretch of road means jack, they still have to put a sign up.

 

Carry on blaming cameras if you like, it will get you no where. Why is it I've got a clean license after 15 years of driving and without the use of detectors? It's because I look further ahead than the end of my own bloody bonnet. Things will get worse in the future and Gatsos will seem like a friendly warning compared to what the G'vnmt is proposing....

[catch_twotwo 0]

Well my license is clean as well...

 

what I was trying to say was that if you slow down then the person behind you (who's probably looking at the camera/speedo/road angel thing) has more chance of hitting you than if it wasn't there at all.

 

I don't blame them for catching me speeding (as they don't) I don't however think that they're put up for the purposes of safety entirely. I believe in 100% disclosure and the government believe in hiding everything behind a curtain of "It's in your best interest"

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Well that argument falls into the "tailgating" catergory unfortunately. If people left enough space between eachother then I'm sure accidents would cut in half over night......a person is intelligent, but people are dumb....you just can't tell them. I tend to look through the car in front anyway as I hate not being able to see what's going on ahead, and is why I never follow trucks. I always overtake them where possible.

 

I agree some cameras are pure profiteering.....there's no need for 7 on the same 40 mile stretch of the A14 for example.....but the point I was trying to make was they're clearly visible and there should be no need to jam the brakes on....but again that's a people thing rather than a camera thing. People jam their brakes on like half a mile back of a truck indicating to pull out, you just have to be vigilant and watch out for inconsistent and nervous drivers.

[catch_twotwo 0]

Agreed. It's a people issue.....

 

In Germany though, as I said, they target tailgaters more than speeders and get better results than we do here. Guess there's just not enough profit in targetting them in the UK though as it's costly to get the equipment and network running for it. Hence why we get the easy option of "$afety camera$"

 

Even my dad puts on his breaks when he's sees a speed camera now and he's never drien over 30mph in his life :roll:

 

7 Camera's in 40 miles.... :lol: try the A13 flyover past Pitsea (IIRC) it has 4 in about 3/4 mile.... 1 before the bridge, 2 on it, and 1 after it. Only seen 1 accident on that bridge in the 10 years I've been driving past it. Very much an accident hotspot :-P

[Walesy 0]

"Do as we say and you will have nothing to fear". The Dictator's message down the ages.

 

 

..New sig for VR6 me thinks....

 

 

Carry on blaming cameras if you like, it will get you no where. Why is it I've got a clean license after 15 years of driving and without the use of detectors? It's because I look further ahead than the end of my own bloody bonnet. Things will get worse in the future and Gatsos will seem like a friendly warning compared to what the G'vnmt is proposing....

 

 

 

*dons flamesuit*

I have to agree with St Haywire there, i've not ever had any speeding points and have covered silly amounts of mileage, out of my circle of friends i'm the only one that has never been done having done 10 times the ammount of driving and I put that down to one thing, the fact that i'm more observant than them... :lol: :wink: . There's nothing wrong with putting your foot down as long as you do it in apropriate circumstances, it's usually those that are driving too fast in areas that they shouldn't be ( stretches of road that have cameras for example :wink: ) that get done.

[catch_twotwo 0]

Guys.. this isn't about points. I too have none on my license.

 

It's about the so called safety of them. You have to agree when you look at it just from that angle they don't do what it says on the tin.

[catch_twotwo 0]

Just for effect ;)

 

 

[craigowl 0]

catch-twotwo said

Even my dad puts on his breaks when he's sees a speed camera now and he's never drien over 30mph in his life

 

Can he spell words like "brakes", though. Or is that just an Essex thang?

 

(Sorry, catch two two - I'm seriously prejudiced - my brother-in-law comes from Grays after all. :wink: )

[NickRStorm 0]

I would say that the majority of fixed position speed cameras tend to be used to make up for poor road design / surface material / maintenance. They merely (forcibly) shift responsibility from the road designers / builders / maintainers back onto the motorist, who, as an individual, is in the weakest position.

 

I also find it interesting that the revenue figures for specific cameras are practically a national secret!

 

However, all this will be as nothing compared to the possibilities that the national rollout of ANPR cameras present for the powers that be: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/15/vehicle_movement_database/

 

The police state is rapidly approaching!

[Trig 0]

I'm going to agree with the likes of Walesy & Haywire on this.

 

It has to be said, not many cameras in my area compared to the rest of the country but if I go into an camera area I make sure the speed i'm doing is sensible, then what's the problem? If people slam the brakes on when they see something yellow than they are incapable of driving properly and as much of a danger as someone who doesn't indicate properly, but what can be done about it? People need to be more observant and less impetuous... guess that's why your constantly looking in your mirror when learning to drive! :)

 

I've never had a fine & they've never really spoilt my driving experience so I guess they don't bother me as much as some.

[JoeNose 0]

That safe speed graph on road deaths says it all.

 

What gets me is that the "constant survellience" ANPR news story seems to generated no significant political protests at all. Looking at the process abuses of camera partnerships (and police - plenty of examples at pepipoo.com) - not to mention the numerous mistakes made by Transport For London's Congestion Charge system - I wouldn't have any confidence whatever that people won't be screwed by this system. Frankly there's only so much personal data I want to give to our civil service's hopeless computers and employees who don't give a f**k. No I've nothing to hide, so they dont need to know.

 

Actually, I don't buy the "I have nothing to hide" outlook at all. Why not data-tag every citizen and install CCTV in private homes if we have nothing to hide?

[H8RRA 0]

.. Why is it I've got a clean license after 15 years of driving and without the use of detectors? ...

 

 

you're wide open there mate - cos you drive like a pensioner? :)

 

i have rarely been caught but I have 3 points from a mobile that was in the lake district - on a country road in the middle of nowhere, on a dual carriageway that i believed to be 70mph, just over the brow of a hill - no chance to slow down even if i thought i needed to.

 

it was obviously and totally a trap and this is what toally pisses people off - no chance to see it and on a stretch where you could easily think the speed lmit was 70 - but i later found was 60 (seemingly the central reservation wasn't wide enough for the limit to be 70)

 

you can picture the scene though, people - and no doubt lots of bikes, driving on quiet country a road, over the brow of a hill and slamming on the anchors as other cars come over the hill and see slow moving car and speed camera's - so-on and so-forth.

 

ANYWAY, this braking issue seems to have taken over here but looking back, that was only part of what i was suggesting. Even if you don't need to brake and potentially cause accidents - (and this this does happen as a result of camera's so theres no point denying it doesn't ) , people will look down to check their speedo just to make sure. due to the amount of camera's around and the increase, this means

- you have people braking - yes call them idiots if you like

- you have people looking for them as they are paranoid, especially if you are in an unfamiliar area and don't know where they are

- you are constantly taking your eyes off the road, where they should be, to check your speedo even if you are totally blameless and trundle around at 30 all the time.

 

i know many who drive from a to b, have no passion for cars who are caught as they slip up by a couple of mph. In the last five years, the motorist has been criminalised and had their pockets picked as the amount of convicted drivers has increase from 5% to over 55% of all licence holders since the introduction of speed camera's

[catch_twotwo 0]

Yep H8RRA you got trapped alright.... and they say it's about sefety. Yeah sure.... why hide the camera's then. A few years back they did until the rules where changed remember. At least now you have a chance to see it.

 

... and yes Craig he can spell better than me ;) I guess I should never think about my work and type. Dealing with a computer that breaks, is easier than dealing with brakes for me :lol:

[saysomestuff 0]

I've never had a problem with speed cameras really - from out in the country so there weren't that many about, and in Cardiff you rarely get the chance to reach the speed limit, let alone exceed it!.

 

I did read a very interesting article once about the 85th percentile which essentially proves that speed cameras are specifically placed in areas where it may force the driving speed to become unsafe. Bear with me but I think it goes like this.

 

the 85th percentile is apparently statistically the safest driving speed - it worked out that it was the speed at which 85% of the tested population felt safe driving in any given condition. Anywhere above or below this is less safe.

 

Speed cameras are placed in locations where the 85th percentile exceeds the exisiting speed limit (there are other factors like 5 serious accidents or whatever), meaning that drivers are forced to drive at a speed which is less safe. Lower, but statistically less safe.

 

Anyway, I honestly believe that it's all down to driving standards. There is an older population than ever before (easier test), cars are cheaper to buy (or credit easier to obtain!). Standards are shoddy throughout the country, lane discipline non existant and insurance bandings insane

 

(why not base it on standard of driving rather than everybody else's ability to avoid your idiotic manouvres?)

 

More cars, less time and patience = stupid mistakes, agressive driving, and hesitant people get worse for fear of making more mistakes!! lol

 

How about all this camera funding pays for compulsory tests every two years. The score of which dictates your insurance banding!?!?

[craigowl 0]

H8RRA said

Theres many area's where you would definately NOT get away with 85mph.

 

My son's bro in law got done for 85mph on motorway up here. I was surprised by that but took it on board.

 

Mostly, if wanting to drive as briskly as possible, I allow 10% over limit on speedo (where safe, obviously). Difficult with VR6, this.

 

Never booked in 34 years, by the way. Not even a parking ticket. Mostly its because I am a coward when it comes to trying to park in tight spaces in town and would prefer to walk a few hundred metres than bend something. :oops:

[andy 0]

I have one speeding ticket, driving carefully, not in a rush, it was down a hill, a dual carraigeway, open road, no side roads, no buildings, pathways or pedestrians. There was a camera sign a mile or so before hand, I was on the general lookout but how are you supposed to know if its fixed or mobile. I came down the hill, it always was a 60 limit. I'm doing mid to high 50s. Never thought anymore of it. Two weeks later, SP30 through the door, its been changed to a 50 limit and they've placed an obscured camera the far side of a bridge right at the bottom of the hill, (obviously to catch people out and generate money). Now thats harsh. I googled it and found it to be one of the most criticised cameras in the country. Loads of locals had been done, they'd literally just changed the number on the sign and placed a camera there. There was no safety safety issue whatsoever.

[saysomestuff 0]

Mostly its because I am a coward when it comes to trying to park in tight spaces in town and would prefer to walk a few hundred metres than bend something. :oops:

 

Lol I think alot of us on here could relate to that!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

.. Why is it I've got a clean license after 15 years of driving and without the use of detectors? ...

 

you're wide open there mate - cos you drive like a pensioner? :)

 

 

LOL, you wouldn't say that if you saw what I was up to on the way to work this morning :lol: Had a brilliant and friendly duel with a 997 and an E46 M3. Let's just say three decent 6 cylinder engines in a line giving it the big un from 80mph is a sound I'll never forget :-)

 

With me it's just luck and knowing where the cameras are ;-) If I ever got radar trapped at the speeds I drive at, they'd throw the book at me, but it's the risk you take. I didn't charge my VR to drive it like miss daisy!

 

As I say, I can happily waft past the cameras in my region at 85 as they don't trigger till about 90, as I testified on one of the older local gatsos when it was out of film ;-)

[H8RRA 0]

There was a camera sign a mile or so before hand, I was on the general lookout but how are you supposed to know if its fixed or mobile.

 

i too researched many things about camera's when I was harshly prosecuted and I can assure you that there has to be a speed camera sign to indicate that your in a camera zone within 0.5 mile of any speed camera, fixed or mobile site. If there isn't you cannot be prosecuted. you are fully entitled to ask where the sign is located and in what relation to the camera you were flashed by. i went back and checked.

 

also, all mobile sites are set locations. they are not random and have to be published on the local constabularies website. not helpful when you're driving down the road but at least you can check in advance or at least check your local area regularly. :roll:

[White2505 0]

Speed cameras, that'll be those large flourescent yellow things on the side of the road, if you're not scanning far enough ahead to see them you pretty much deserve to get caught. (we can all give examples of cameras where they are somewhat obscured by local features) if you are'nt local and don't already know where these are you have no right to be speeding in an unknown area and then gripe about getting caught afterwards.

 

For many of those with the knee jerk reaction to the yellow box its a combination of not looking far enough ahead and being a habitual speeder.

Afterall if youre hitting your brakes hard enough that the vehicle behind you runs into the back of you you have to question how much over the speed limit where you travelling when you approaching the speed camera??

 

The car behind you is so close they'll hit you if you brake..... you should be travelling slower then not faster, they'll either back off, overtake you or continue to tailgate you but at least if they do hit you it will be at a slower speed and offer less chance of serious injury to those involved. Frustrating as the damaged car is it's still better than being maimed or killed.

 

Cameras are there to make money...... so what! can you think of any other law enforcement system paid for by the offender rather than the general public??....... stick two fingers up at the government money grabbers by sticking to the speed limit, it aint rocket science. If you do get caught it's no good manking about it, afterall you had the choice whether to exceed the limit or not.

[craigowl 0]

IMO - this is still one of the best countries for freedom of the individual.

 

60-70 years ago millions of people here and across the world sacrificed more than most of us will ever have to to keep it that way.

 

How many of you mumping about speed limits and cameras are willing to move out to some other country that is not like the UK, to enjoy the rest of your life?

 

About 5% or less, I expect.

 

If you are a law abiding citizen who obeys the rules most of the time, there are hardly any tough injustices.

 

If you are caught and penalised for breaking the rules implemented by a democratically elected UK government, don't whinge about it, please unless you are on the point of emigrating.

 

Try and look at life with a much broader perspective.

 

That is IMO only, but I have a relatively long overview.

[H8RRA 0]

Speed cameras, that'll be those large flourescent yellow things on the side of the road, if you're not scanning far enough ahead to see them you pretty much deserve to get caught. (we can all give examples of cameras where they are somewhat obscured by local features) if you are'nt local and don't already know where these are you have no right to be speeding in an unknown area and then gripe about getting caught afterwards.

 

if you read the thread, you'd see your off the mark and thats not what its about.

 

and from what your saying, its okay to speed if you're local and know where the camera's are but if you don't know where the camera's are, its okay!? Good contribution :roll:

 

How many of you mumping about speed limits and cameras are willing to move out to some other country that is not like the UK, to enjoy the rest of your life?

 

If you are caught and penalised for breaking the rules implemented by a democratically elected UK government, don't whinge about it, please unless you are on the point of emigrating.

 

you're being very selective about what you're reading here. There's nothing democratic about speed camera's and its not a whinge about speeding. the 2 main points here which are

 

1. the dangers that occur due to the camera's - people braking/not looking at the road as they should be - these cannot be denied.

 

2. they are not safety camera's as portrayed OR a crusade to save lives (any government wanting to save lives would ban smoking and not cop out as ours has and make up ludicrous smoking bans in food-serving pubs only rules). they are money making cash cows (quote, the wire :) ). Read the title of the thread and don't harp on piously about "....don't break the law.......move elsewhere if you don't like ....." Not relevant.