The Suspension Discussion Thread

[Human Joist 10]

This is copied from my original post but have posted it here as well as I need advice please

 

Right, research done. If I go for coilovers it's KW variant 1 for £639 best price so far. Most people on this forum seem to favour coileys but I am not yet converted so if I go for separate shocks and springs it's Bilstein standard height shocks for £150 all round and then HR springs for £171 then I need to source spring plates etc as mine has cheap nasty coilovers and they did not come with spring plates and other bits removed. I am stuck and not sure which way to go. HELP

Edited June 9, 2012 by Human Joist

[Human Joist 10]

Further to above if I stay with initial thoughts and go with standard suspension there are also two other makes that get mentioned on here a lot weitec and AP. Both companies do conventional set up for a VR. AP's kit is £260 weitec's kit is £360 and Bilstein B12 is £580. All lower car about 35-40 mm. Has anyone tried any of these makes and what did you think of them. Any advice is welcome as I planed to order them soon

[DriverVR6 11]

No way would I ever fit a set of coilovers to a road car. Completely pointless and nothing to be gained from doing so.

 

My advice is simply buy a reputable (Koni, Bilstein) set of dampers which are 20% uprated, or if your budget stretches that far get adjustable dampers. Add a set of slightly lowered 20% uprated springs. Make sure all the bushes are in good condition and have the whole geometry set up correctly by someone that knows what they are doing.

 

Do this, and your car will be comfortable and handle very well, if not better than a coilover set up. Sorry, but coilovers belong with the Max Power brigade that know zilch about car handling and are just into "slamming it man".....

Edited June 9, 2012 by DriverVR6

[Human Joist 10]

Cool. Cheers for advice. That was what I was thinking anyway but don't want to get the set up wrong. Just need to decide what make to go for AP, Weitec or Bilstein. Any offers of advice

[DriverVR6 11]

Go for Bilsteins if you want fixed rate damping, or Konis if you want adjustable damping. If I were you, I'd stick with the Bilsteins with fixed damping. And if you are going for slightly lowered/uprated springs then you should not really use the OE Sachs dampers as they are valved/setup for use with standard springs.

[Human Joist 10]

There is the Bilstein B12 set up for £580 or I can buy OE quality bilstein shocks for £150 then HR 35 mm for £171. What you reckon.

[DriverVR6 11]

If you want to use H&R springs then you really should use uprated dampers, so the OE Bilsteins will not be the ones to go for. Research the B6 & B8 Bilstein dampers as they will be better suited. The B12 kit is good, but make sure it lowers the front and rear by the same amount and is not too low. The biggest mistake, in my opinion, that people make is that they go too low and the suspension geometry is all wrong and never works as it should. Just price every different option up and then buy to your budget. As long as you stick to reputable makes of dampers and springs, which are not too low or hard, then you'll not go far wrong. Also take a look at the Koni STRT kit. Very well priced and worked very well on a 16v I'm running.

[captainredeye 0]

If you can stretch to the 3s, they are excellent. They are totally different units to the 1 and 2, hence the big jump in cost. They are also rebuildable and guaranteed for life (IIRC).

 

I tried a 24V Corrado with V1s and the ride was terrible.

 

I went for the v1's in the end the v2's seem a little pointless when a little extras gets you 3's, decision was made due to the pressing need for cams!

Have the shocks set almost to the highest point about 9 lines of thread left and it feels good the dampening feels better than the standard shocks i had on, just seems to take the edge off of the bumps.

I will admit though i would like to tweak it a little but for the time being i am happy with them and Like with anything you get a taste for higher spec and a lesser model wont be as impressive, would like to compare myself and see as you have quite different opinions on the v1's and 3's, more to the point what im now missing out on.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

There is the Bilstein B12 set up for £580 or I can buy OE quality bilstein shocks for £150 then HR 35 mm for £171. What you reckon.

 

Get the B12 kit. Just been revamped with Eibach prog rate springs. It's the only sub £1000 fixed strut option I would consider tbh.

The H&R green springs for the VR6 are harsh over bumps, just to warn you....

 

I went for the v1's in the end the v2's seem a little pointless when a little extras gets you 3's, decision was made due to the pressing need for cams!

Have the shocks set almost to the highest point about 9 lines of thread left and it feels good the dampening feels better than the standard shocks i had on, just seems to take the edge off of the bumps.

I will admit though i would like to tweak it a little but for the time being i am happy with them and Like with anything you get a taste for higher spec and a lesser model wont be as impressive, would like to compare myself and see as you have quite different opinions on the v1's and 3's, more to the point what im now missing out on.

 

If they work for you, then great :D The difference between V1 and V3 is huge, but the car I tried them on felt bad. Both under damped and over sprung, which is not a nice combination. KW do tend to run quite soft damping, compared to say, a Koni yellow TA.

[Human Joist 10]

Just before I ordered the B12 kit I got further advice about coilovers and that they were good with non oe wheels as it allowed you to get the right height to suit the car. Anyway could someone tell me the difference between KW variant 1 basic and the variant 1 inox line. I can get the basic for £490 and the inox for £600 and would like to know difference. Still not ruled out the B12 kit though

[24V Renshaw 0]

The inox are stainless steel

Bodies rather than plated steel so should stay looking better, but don't really offer much advantage Over well looked after standard ones

[Human Joist 10]

Oh right. Managed to make a contact that can get them at these prices so I could get the basic cheaper than the B12. Decisions decisions. Every time I make my mind up I read someone's post and I am back to square one. Stuck on the fence. What to do arghhhhh

[dannyboy 0]

Kev you swear by them B12's which is was looking into getting,do you know if theyre any good on 4 pots? How hard is the ride with them cause i do a lot of autobahn and dont have the best back for hard suspension

 

---------- Post added at 8:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 6:53 PM ----------

 

can anyone recommend b14s or even b16s pss9?.look pricey but top-range

[craigowl 0]

Not needing them from MOT or ride viewpoint, but would like to replace original rear (oil-filled?) shock absorbers.

Prefer Boge, Sachs other similar type - nowt hard, anyway.

Any advice, please, guys?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Kev you swear by them B12's which is was looking into getting,do you know if theyre any good on 4 pots? How hard is the ride with them cause i do a lot of autobahn and dont have the best back for hard suspension

 

They are VERY good dampers, that's why :D Yeah they should be fine on 4 pots. Bilstein, unlike KW, Koni, Weitec et al valve their dampers for specific models. I can't tell you how hard the ride is as it will depend on the springs that come in the B12 kit. They should be Eibach progressive rate springs now, which are relatively soft on the straights but when you turn-in, the spring rate stiffens up.

If you order them from somewhere like Balancemotorsport, Julian there really knows his apples and will try and find out the spring rate for you if you ask him. It was because of him I found out KW offer different spring rates on their kits. I wouldn't have known otherwise.

can anyone recommend b14s or even b16s pss9?.look pricey but top-range

 

They are rock hard.....but again.....brilliant dampers. It's a damn site easier getting softer springs for coilovers than it is fixed struts though ;)

[dannyboy 0]

They are VERY good dampers, that's why :D Yeah they should be fine on 4 pots. Bilstein, unlike KW, Koni, Weitec et al valve their dampers for specific models. I can't tell you how hard the ride is as it will depend on the springs that come in the B12 kit. They should be Eibach progressive rate springs now, which are relatively soft on the straights but when you turn-in, the spring rate stiffens up.

If you order them from somewhere like Balancemotorsport, Julian there really knows his apples and will try and find out the spring rate for you if you ask him. It was because of him I found out KW offer different spring rates on their kits. I wouldn't have known otherwise.

 

 

 

Sweet,cheers kev wont be getting the b14s or 16s then. That sounds spot on with the progressive springs,nothing worse than driving 7 hours back to uk in a car thats got suspension like a go-kart.Dont want anything OTT if you know what i mean,mines a road car not a race one.just need better suspension to take care of that horrendous nose lift and dive and keeping wheels on the ground more often so b12s sound the part.

 

Cheers kev!

[Human Joist 10]

If you want standard shocks try eurocar parts. They supply Bilstein for £50 a corner or thereabouts

[dannyboy 0]

I have standard shocks and springs on the car,they cant really cope with the extra torque the tt engine puts out.They arent bad on normal drive,but not very reactive and ride feels bit too soggy.Im well aware that stiffer suspension does excatly what it says on the tin,obviously there are a few exceptions where progressive springs and shocks give that all important smooth ride on normal straights and stiffen up when things get twisty.this is what im looking for!

 

Id love to see a magnetic dampers kit for a raddo,cant image they'd be cheap though

[Human Joist 10]

Have now found a site that does KW V1 basic for £470 delivered. Apparently KW are on an old skool offer till end of month then prices go back up. Mine to be ordered in next couple of days. If anyone has found them cheaper anywhere else let me know ASAP as it very nearly time to order

Edited June 20, 2012 by Human Joist

[G-Lad 0]

Give it to me straight folks! I've read a load of comments on this thread and now i'm worried...

 

I had all of the suspension on my VR6 replaced about three years ago. New Febi and Mahle parts all round except for Sachs Advantage dampers and retaining the factory springs. New standard wishbones and bushes, new rear bushes, new ARB bushes etc.

 

since fitting a set of 16 x 7.5 BBS RCs the ride looks silly but the car is amazingly stable at high speed.

 

i've picked up a set of second hand H&R green springs and have just splashed out on £100 worth of top mounts, bump stops, lower spring mounts and boots etc.

 

would I be totally nuts to fit these spring to get slight lowering purely for aesthetic reasons?

 

i'd like things to be a bit stiffer but i'm worried i'll totally spoil the geometry and make the car handle really badly.

 

i'm also paranoid about making the rear really crashy after having a set of orange H&R springs and Boge Turbo Gas dampers to my Mk2 Golf 16v. I eventually ditched the golf rears and fitted genuine 5 door rears.

 

I am not going to buy all new dampers too since the Sachs one are only 3 years old. I'm more likely to just sell the H&R springs and new rubber bits (and then feel gutted!).

 

hit me with the hard advice folks!!!

 

 

chris

Edited February 17, 2013 by G-Lad
removed accidental double submit

[g0ldf1ng3r 15]

Give it to me straight folks! I've read a load of comments on this thread and now i'm worried...

 

I had all of the suspension on my VR6 replaced about three years ago. New Febi and Mahle parts all round except for Sachs Advantage dampers and retaining the factory springs. New standard wishbones and bushes, new rear bushes, new ARB bushes etc.

 

since fitting a set of 16 x 7.5 BBS RCs the ride looks silly but the car is amazingly stable at high speed.

 

i've picked up a set of second hand H&R green springs and have just splashed out on £100 worth of top mounts, bump stops, lower spring mounts and boots etc.

 

would I be totally nuts to fit these spring to get slight lowering purely for aesthetic reasons?

 

i'd like things to be a bit stiffer but i'm worried i'll totally spoil the geometry and make the car handle really badly.

 

i'm also paranoid about making the rear really crashy after having a set of orange H&R springs and Boge Turbo Gas dampers to my Mk2 Golf 16v. I eventually ditched the golf rears and fitted genuine 5 door rears.

 

I am not going to buy all new dampers too since the Sachs one are only 3 years old. I'm more likely to just sell the H&R springs and new rubber bits (and then feel gutted!).

 

hit me with the hard advice folks!!!

 

 

chris

 

---------- Post added at 8:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 8:25 AM ----------

 

Give it to me straight folks! I've read a load of comments on this thread and now i'm worried...

 

I had all of the suspension on my VR6 replaced about three years ago. New Febi and Mahle parts all round except for Sachs Advantage dampers and retaining the factory springs. New standard wishbones and bushes, new rear bushes, new ARB bushes etc.

 

since fitting a set of 16 x 7.5 BBS RCs the ride looks silly but the car is amazingly stable at high speed.

 

i've picked up a set of second hand H&R green springs and have just splashed out on £100 worth of top mounts, bump stops, lower spring mounts and boots etc.

 

would I be totally nuts to fit these springs to get slight lowering purely for aesthetic reasons?

 

i'd like things to be a bit stiffer but i'm worried i'll totally spoil the geometry and make the car handle really badly.

 

i'm also paranoid about making the rear really crashy after having a set of orange H&R springs and Boge Turbo Gas dampers to my Mk2 Golf 16v. I eventually ditched the golf rears and fitted genuine 5 door rears.

 

I am not going to buy all new dampers too since the Sachs one are only 3 years old. I'm more likely to just sell the H&R springs and new rubber bits (and then feel gutted!).

 

hit me with the hard advice folks!!!

 

 

chris

 

get yourself some KW's!!

 

get em outta the box, fit em, run it for a week, drop it, forget it....job done :D

[matttromans 0]

Morning All,

 

The time has come to tackle the ageing suspension on the VR. I've trawled through this thread with interest and just wanted to confirm my thinking. Kevin Bacon - Your views are much appreciated (as you are now endorsed on the EE advert, and clearly connected, i'm sure you'll be along shortly!).

 

What I want out of the upgrades is a 'fast road' set up, its got to cope well with bumpy B roads, corner like a house fly and be comfortable. My driving is a mix of long motorway hauls, ring road session, and country lanes. I very occasionally take the VR out on track, but am not aiming to build a track weapon. Its a road car. I mild drop would be nice (25-40mm max), but this is secondary really. I'm not fussed about having adjustability, I just want something thats spot on out of the box.

 

On my most recent MOT a lot of the bushes were given as advisoraries, along with the ball joints - not bad for 140k, so all of this is going to get done at the same time. This however does mean that the budget for the new kit is not going to stretch to the KW V2's or 3's.

 

So as I see it my options would seem to be the Bilstien B12 kit, which sounds exactly what i'm after. The KW V1's seem to make a lot of people on here happy though. Are there any other set-ups I should be considering at this sort of price bracket - about £150 a corner? Out of these two i'd really appreciate thoughts/comments/opinions.

 

Cheers

 

Matt

[jamiehamy 0]

Matt, if you look elsewhere you'll see me banging on about standard height and today is no exception EXCEPT I've just fitted a H&R rear ARB.

 

I'm on standard height springs with Koni T/As all round and the H&R on the back. I have the R32 wishbone bushes and Genuine or Lemfoerder ball joints and track rod ends. and the car handles like a dream. Very little roll on corners, very comfortable on b-roads (on which I spend a lot of time).

 

Before I fitted the ARB, tight twisties induced a lot of lean, which I could live with, but the difference with the ARB is tremendous, I wish i'd done it years ago.

 

I'm hoping to get a second hand set of Bilstein shocks soon as the Koni's at 100k miles old, so will see what difference they make.

 

But overall, I'd say without a doubt my setup would meet your requirements. I'd invite you to try if you were nearer, you might be surprised!

[matttromans 0]

Jamie, Thanks for your reply. Sticking with the standard ride height is a serious option - I reckon the guys at VW probably knew what they were doing! However, as mine is quite a late car, it does seem particularly tall....So, for this set up presumably i'd keep the current springs (or after 140k is it worth getting new as well?), new std dampers (sachs/boge whatever?) new bushes and ball joints, and a new rear ARB (that is fitted as well as the existing one, correct?). I guess what i'm trying to achieve is OEM+ if that makes sense - what the storm always should have been, a mildly uprated VR6.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I'd get the B12 kit as it only drops 25mm or so. Bilstein know what they're doing more than VW do ;)