The Forced Induction 20V Thread

[dannyboy 0]

cheers man found it yesterday evening. Typical,ive found both them yesterday and spent ages days before hand!! thanks anyway :thumbleft:

 

Went to the breakers today and got connector and e-pedal off golf tdi.wiring is different colour on some connections but should be the same. just finished splicing the wiring.Not the most fancy wiring you can have but its practial and works.Plus if the connectors are wrong way around i can swap'em.

Sorry for gash photos,dam energy saving bulbs

[dannyboy 0]

Does anyone know which PAS pump to use on the 20vt? G60 is offset quite a bit and destroyed one trying to adjust it! so VR or g60 ones are a no-go.Think theyre 52mm ones

 

Looking at several at the moment, golf mk2 pumps look correct(41mm offset) or golf mk4 1.4 one like this

http://cgi.ebay.de/Servopumpe-VW-Lupo-6N2-Golf-4-1-4L-44KW-Bj02-/310303614228?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item483f896514

 

also added bonus of the feed pipe beening straight rather than bent at an angled elbow and clearing crossmember

 

although i thought golf mk4 pumps were banjo bolt unions.Cant be that big a job to swap the threaded union inside the pump for raddo one so the orignial hard pipe can fit.Or am i barking up the wrong tree?

[G60_edge 0]

What did you go for in the end?

If I could find a good source for mk2 pump I'm going to do that. Otherwise, mk4 and try and get a banjo fitting put on the end of the existing pipe

 

Does anyone know which PAS pump to use on the 20vt? G60 is offset quite a bit and destroyed one trying to adjust it! so VR or g60 ones are a no-go.Think theyre 52mm ones

 

Looking at several at the moment, golf mk2 pumps look correct(41mm offset) or golf mk4 1.4 one like this

http://cgi.ebay.de/Servopumpe-VW-Lupo-6N2-Golf-4-1-4L-44KW-Bj02-/310303614228?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item483f896514

 

also added bonus of the feed pipe beening straight rather than bent at an angled elbow and clearing crossmember

 

although i thought golf mk4 pumps were banjo bolt unions.Cant be that big a job to swap the threaded union inside the pump for raddo one so the orignial hard pipe can fit.Or am i barking up the wrong tree?

[fabsp 0]

does anyone have a parts list needed to put a AGU into a shell that originally had a 9a in it?

 

cheers

[Turborado 10]

Just a quick question, has anyone else had their engine blow up while boosting? my engine had a destroyed crank and casing, big ends and snapped a conrod clean in half. Im running an AUQ with a K04 pushing about 275bhp, not 100% what the boost is, but basically this has happened to me twice lol

[MaverickG60 0]

Just a quick question, has anyone else had their engine blow up while boosting? my engine had a destroyed crank and casing, big ends and snapped a conrod clean in half. Im running an AUQ with a K04 pushing about 275bhp, not 100% what the boost is, but basically this has happened to me twice lol

 

Christ, I've gone for an AUQ also, hope that doesn't happen to me! That said I only have the tiny standard blower. At an educated guess maybe it was producing too much boost for the standard internals? The BAM engine, for example, has forged internals I believe which comes equipped with the K04 as standard so it's designed to take the punishment but it's not uncommon for people to run nearly 300bhp on a so to speak inferior 20vt engine and have no probs.

 

What engine did you have the 1st time? Same code?

 

Does seem odd it's happened twice!?

[dannyboy 0]

I'm running quite high boost at the moment, 29 psi peak dropping to 21 psi on my APX engine which is the same as BAM without the vvt and wideband.I've had no problems but I'm turning mine down now only to help with drivablity issues and the sanity of my tyres. I made sure my engine was in good health before I even thought about re-mapping. Sorry to hear that two engines went,very unusual if you have a higher bhp engine as they have a lower CR to deal with higher boost.only running a 20 vt on 95 octane with anything higher than 15 PS I and small intercooler will cause problems long term.Its the high torque that destroys these engines and rods are the weakest part even on the higher bhp engines.I'm running 102 octance constantly with a large golf g60 intercooler so I can use the boost without any problems,well at least that's what vagcom is telling me.I've just bought a revo SPS to control the timing and boost at the turn of a switch.

[Turborado 10]

I kept it as AUQ each time i replaced the block, just because it was cheaper to buy a bare engine block and use my ancillaries. I have been toying with the idea of either disassembling a BAM engine or investing in a complete bottom end overhaul and putting in heavy duty rods, bearings and bolts but its alot of pennies atm haha.

 

On mine i never use anything less than super unleaded 99 octane, and I am running a huuuuuge intercooler from a mercedes sprinter, so when i need the power its there but its just really un-nerving when i put my foot down as am constantly worried about a repeat of the engine destruction.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

If the AUQ is a derivative of the AGU K03 engine, then it's nowhere near as strong as the K03S (BJX) and KO4 (BAM) engines.

 

I've blown a standard AGU with just a Revo map on it, which is ~ 190hp.

 

I have to say though, these 1.8T motors only ever blow from detonation with the KKK blowers. I've only seen one bend a rod with a bigger Garrett blower, such as the GT2871.

[MaverickG60 0]

If the AUQ is a derivative of the AGU K03 engine, then it's nowhere near as strong as the K03S (BJX) and KO4 (BAM) engines.

 

The AUQ comes with a K03s as standard, don't they? Mine did. I always thought the AGU was the next best thing to the 'scene' BAM or APX engines as it had larger intake ports or something???

 

Turborado - I don't know if your problems are stemming from the fact your using the larger K04 turbo with an engine that was never designed to take it? Might also be worth finding out exactly how much boost your actually making because if it's a similar figure to what dannyboy above is getting with a APX engine, which is from a 225 Audi TT, which has, as standard, a K04 turbo and forged internals then maybe what fishwick is saying might be the case, it simply isn't up to the job? Maybe consider winding the boost/hp down a bit and see how you get on. Please anyone jump in hear if I'm talking pish.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Could be, I'm only familar with a few 1.8T variations. The AGU is popular for it's head, but the block is essentially just a 16V. It's the weakest of the lot, but it was only designed to be a low boost motor with no more than 200hp, tops.

AGU head on BAM block was also popular but it doesn't really make a whole heck of a difference until you start bolting big turbos on really.

 

No K04 can make enough boost to bend or snap a rod on 225 engine if it's mapped correctly (i.e. no pinking or jammed shut wastegates) but could do on the weaker engines, especially if the boost is high and the exhaust manifold is restrictive, which is definitely a 1.8T weakness.

[DANG60 0]

How much torque is the car producing? i think the general agreed limit as in its not worth taking the risk over and above 300lbft, anything after that and uprated rods are required. Have heard stories of ko4 equipped cars bending rods alot of stories of that on cupra net. I think its to do with the fact a k04 is a relativey quick spooling turbo and can deliver a big dollop of torque low down.

 

On a side note Fishwick - I saw somewhere on the net a car like yours running one of integrated engineerings 044 fuel pump and surge tank. I dont suppose it was you was it? Ive just ordered one and was wondering where you found the best place to get fittings from?

 

cheers

[Turborado 10]

My car is producing 265lbft of torque, so not an insane amount

[dannyboy 0]

I agree with fishwick,Dan and maverick on this one. The auq engine is the 180 from the seat leon which did come with the k03s Turbo on it.if you have a k04 on it and running high psi on it,the 9.3 CR is too high for that kind of boost even with a massive intercooler on the pressure in the cylinder may be too great for the cast components to handle. The AGU engine was looked for because it had bigger inlet canals and valves.but as fishwick said this was only any use when using bigger turbos so unless your putting over 320+ PS on the engine its not worth it.

I had to wait two years before I found a 225 engine at a decent price with low mileage before I could start my project.if u want high power go for the higher PS engines otherwise stay within limits of the lower powered engine.350 NM is quite high for that engine,mines about 390 nm which is considered close to the Max 'safe' limit

Edited February 11, 2012 by dannyboy

[MaverickG60 0]

Turborado - out of interest what management system are you using, OEM or something like OPEng? I'll be using QPEng and I have a mate who's running the same and it produces 250bhp at approx 19psi boost and that is plenty quick enough, his engine is either a ARX or ARZ from an Octavia with a K03s. I remember when I spoke to Turbo dynamics about having my K03s 'tarted' up to be essentially a K04 within a K03s shell they reckon the upper operational limits of the K03s for longevity and reliability was approx 210bhp, K04 was approx 265-270bhp. That said almost everyone runs slightly more and has no probs. I think if you intend to use any 20v that was designed to have either a K03 or K03s turbo you should, for reliability sake, use that turbo and likewise if you find a BAM use the K04.

 

I only ask about the management as it might be the way it's set up to deliver the power that's causing you to ruin your engines. Also what Dang60 said about the K04 being by trait a quick spooling turbo and it almost 'shocks' the internals and they sh*t themselves as a result?

[Turborado 10]

I'm using Qpeng engine management

[Rob_B 0]

My first question is have you got any det? The MBE set up does not use a knock sensor so it is mapped conservatively from Qpeng. If you have a crap injector or weak fuel pump then this is not covered by the ecu.

Get it put on a dyno and get some afr readings.

Secondly, is your map specifically for an auq with a k04?

I don't think you are running too much boost, I think you have an underlying problem.

No reason why it should go bang if it's fuelled properly

[MaverickG60 0]

Glad you got on this Rob, I figured you'd have a more in depth explanation.

[DANG60 0]

Yeah seems strange your rod snapped ive only ever heard of people bending them. there is a good possibility it could be det as this has a massive impact on cylinder pressures. There are people running alot bigger turbos on standard pistons with 9:5:1 compression so dont think the type of engine is to blame.

[Turborado 10]

I need to get it running again but will definitely get it on a dyno and check for faults, but on my not running subject i have just had a new crank position sensor fitted but i dint have a spark, anyone got any ideas?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

On a side note Fishwick - I saw somewhere on the net a car like yours running one of integrated engineerings 044 fuel pump and surge tank. I dont suppose it was you was it? Ive just ordered one and was wondering where you found the best place to get fittings from?

 

cheers

 

Yeah I have got one of those pump setups. I get all my fittings from www.speedflow.co.uk mate. You will also need a check valve for the 044 or it will drain back and give you starting problems. Speedflow sell a pukka high flow one specifically for the 044, which I used with great success - http://www.speedflow.com.au/valves.html Yep, that link is the Australian Speedflow, but the UK site sell them as well, it's just not advertised. Need to ring them and ask for it.

 

I have to say, that 044 is a noisy little fecker, even when submersed in fuel but the surge tank works a treat. I went a bit overkill and fed my 044 with a Walbro GSS340 intank (255lph high flow). You may find the stock intank can't keep up with the 044, which will make it (the 044) even noisier.

 

I also have one of these, which has the even mightier Bosch 040, but in a stock housing, which is a nicer solution imo - http://www.spturbo.com/onlinestore/index.php/tuning-and-fuel/pump/mk3-intake-fuel-pump.html

 

How much power are you gunning for? You do realise a GSS340 + 044 package is enough for 600hp easily don't you? :D A 600hp 1.8T will demand Huuuuuuuuuge cash reserves :D

 

Hope that helps.

[DANG60 0]

Ah great, thanks for the info, yeah that one from sp turbo does look like a better solution mind. I went for that as i liked the idea of a surge tank. Theres a possibilty ill do a few track days so the surge tank can only help things.

I'll just see how the orginal pump copes and then upgrade from there if need be. The car was originally a 16v so it has an intank and inline pump so i'll just mount this in the original location.

 

Haha no car wont be anywhere near 600hp, it should hopefully be around the 380 ish mark, and as im finding out it costs an absolute fortune, keeps me away from the pub though i guess.

 

Thanks again for the information.

[stereoflaver 0]

I have a AGU engine and am about to start my conversion, I wanted to use the stock ECU that comes with the engine, where can I get it decoded ?

[GrahamU 6]

have a look for Andyout on clubGTI, he removes the immo for cheap money, he did mine

[stereoflaver 0]

have a look for Andyout on clubGTI, he removes the immo for cheap money, he did mine

 

Thanks al have a look on club gti.

 

 

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