Used Values - has the bubble finally burst?

[Pat_McCrotch 0]

Looking at the For Sale section it appears that the price gap between true s**ters and the decent stuff seems to be widening. There are people still willing to pay £4000+ for a decent VR6, but the problem with that is the people with the ropey stuff (rust, poor paintwork, no chains, 150k+ miles) still cheekily try and ask £3000 for them and eventually struggle to sell for even £2000. The 8v's and 16v's are fairing even worse. I went to see a garaged (up to 2008), fully VW Serviced N plate 16v that was on Autotrader last week, in much better condition than any 16v in the For Sale section at the moment (hardly difficult) which was offered to me for £1500. Still too expensive in my eyes but the best condition 16v i've seen in a long while.

 

But, I've seen people trying to sell much worse 16v's, with engine problems, in the For Sale section for £2000. What planet are these people on? :cuckoo:

 

The scary thing is you can buy a 52 plate Ford Fiesta nowdays for less than £1500 and I think despite the fact that we love the Corrado that the dreaded rust, insurance costs, and poor maintenance by owners is finally taking it's toll on the used values. This coupled with the Corrado's overplayed image as a future classic leading to rather bold claims on for sale threads by members like, "That's a bargain" and "I can't believe this hasn't sold", despite the fact they've never seen the car in there life and are in no position to judge the condition of the vehicle in question.

 

A prime example is a car which me, supercharged, and Mr. Haywire viewed on the classifieds a few weeks back that at least 3 people described as a 'bargain' on the thread after seeing some carefully angled photo's. "A few rust spots" turned out to be a quite litterally rotten quarter panel, door, sills and even a rusting boot floor! Within 3 minutes of looking at the car I had to tell the guy i'd be wasting his time looking at it any further :wave: Makes you wonder how many people have bought a car on the For Sale section have ended up buying a bag of nails due to peoples thread comments... :gag:

 

So, is it just a coincidence nothing in the For Sale section is moving or do you think people are being too unrealistic about the values of 15+ year old cars?

 

Discuss :|

[dukest 0]

I've thought that there's been a LOT of cars for sale this year, especially the first few months, and supply has outstripped demand in hard times. I think as you say there are a lot of other cars out there for less money than a decent VR6 which arent stupid to insure, arent crap on fuel consumption and dont have bits going obsolete every other day. Yes the Corrado is a better drive than some of them, but not all, and its not a daily driver in any normal motorist's eyes anymore. For non-VW enthusiasts its just another interesting car from the past that they'd never consider owning for a second. For those of us that are, people dont want cars that are showing their age, they want one that looks good. Anything with rust or things not working is a "project" and projects start life as sub-£1k cars.

 

Plenty of people say that we should talk up the values of the Cars for Sale but anyone that owns their daily driver as a long term investment is kidding themselves. Concours cars will be worth a bit more in 10 years, anything else will need to be in very good condition and definitely sub-150k to make anything more than £2-3k ever again. And that definitely doesnt include anything but the youngest of valver's which just arent going to be interesting to anyone unless they actually want to drive old cars just for the sake of it. You just have to look at the people selling valvers to buy VRs to see that people want some character in their driving experience if they're going to be paying dearly in running costs and effort for the privilege.

[C488ADO 0]

see im one of those people who value thier car at 5-6 grand all day long ....

 

 

why??

 

find another one like it really.....and when you do i bet it will be priced very similar of not even more so....

 

 

i couldnt build my car for that now.... still.....i havent got overly expensive parts on my car but what i have got is some nice bits and pieces and everything i have got is of good quality and extremly clean ....i could strip my car and get that value i rekkon...the shell and the interior are concours the running gear is new ish (12-18 months) the car is probably worth more to me in time than bits! lol

 

there have been a few nice examples go on here for well over 5 k same old though isnt it.....its only worth what someone is willing to pay.......of course that depends on the seller and how desperate he/she is trying to get rid of the car too, ive toyed several times recently of selling my car due to the love hate relationship we all seem to develop over time, but mine is now back in the garage and has been for the last 2 weeks having some body work done and a manual gear box conversion with some tricks, so ive started to miss it already im glad i havent sold and i will be glad when ive still got it next year and i will be even more pleased when its finally charged!!!!

[dukest 0]

yours is obviously not standard and sounds close to concours though.

there cant be a comment valid for every car and so I was only talking about loosely standard cars. that said, people do often fall into the trap of thinking their car is worth what it cost to build which is certainly not the case, nor are they worth as a car what they are in parts, as Billcor's car showed.

[C488ADO 0]

totally agree...

 

but

 

 

chris on here sold his car in parts for more than what it was worth as a whole.... lol well done to him

 

 

ok it must have been a ball ache to strip the whole damn thing but if you got the room and time to do it fair play...

 

keep breaking them boys !!! one day it will make the prices go up but like you said probably the next 10 years or so....lol

 

 

 

just a last min thought, has any one noticed the price of mk2 golfs of late??

 

a couple months ago they were featching very strong money indeed is this still the case? and why all of a sudden such a hike in prices if they are ??

[dukest 0]

maybe i didnt say it right, but yes i was saying that they are worth more in parts too, especially modified ones.

[vornwend 0]

Hard to second guess I think. Some convincing arguements above but on the other side of the coin I think there is something very special about these cars which may defy logic- we know they have always had good press through the years which has given them credibility amongst petrolheads but more importantly people who who have driven them have loved them and been hooked. Inevitably the numbers of decent examples will dwindle and the people who were hooked and had to sell may get to the point in their life where they have some cash to splash and they may just do that on an old Corrado that comes up. In 15 years time if there are less than say 750 around the prices could be quite high - say just 50 come up for sale each year, could imagine good ones then going for big money. At the moment though I'm not anywhere near thinking of mine as an investment at least in financial terms the emotional investment is something different and that is still giving a great return so I'm nowhere near contempating cashing in.

 

My prediction - 2025, "VR6 in great condition, 150,000 miles, 50 kilos of receipts :shock: , £27,500" Start saving now :)

[James. 9]

Perhaps there aren't enough Corrados "seen" on the roads anymore. Because they're not in the shop window so to speak they will continue to get overlooked. Then a potential owner sees one and thinks I'll have a go at that. Allows their heart to rule their head and then sells it on in six months time as it's nearly bankrupt him/her and sells it on as a "project".

 

I remember the last Corrado I owned was sold to its new owner. He knocked me down on the couple of niggles that needed rectifying. And I mean small niggles.

Two years later I saw the car for sale at a show with new wheels and other bolt on goodies. I felt a fondness for that car and questioned wether I should I buy it back, until I noticed that the "small niggles" hadn't been corrected and when I asked where the service bumpf was (2" thick file / all old MOTs / FSH / First aid kit etc when I passed ownership). I was told i"it's somewhere in the shed"

 

I'm sure the lad was thrilled when he bought it (as was i) but that's the screw. It cost me a lot of money to run it as an everyday car and as is the way so often, new owners do not factor in the "what ifs". And as a result have to reset to default with "something more practical or economical".

 

Fortunatly I don't have to justify my purchase to anyone as it's all paid for from my own savings. And ever there was a time if I had to sell it to help the family then I would in a breath. But until that time I intend to enjoy it sparingly and learn from it.

 

Has the bubble burst ? A hard question to answer. But based on the the standard of Corrados at Tatton Park last week, more like the gap between good and bad is widening.

[Yandards 0]

It's just part of the normal process all cars go through as they get older in terms of values.

 

The previously mentioned Mk 2 Golfs being a prime example, 3 years ago a minter would set you back around a grand and it's now at least double that figure, the Corrado will go the same way and low mileage/well cared for examples will always command a premium but condition and maintenance becomes more and more relevant as time goes by.

 

As for people just wanting the VR6 in the longer term, folks still want both 8v, 16v, G60 and Rallye Mk 2s with a strong demand for all of those varients, yes more people will want the VR6 as it's the more famous powerplant but if you have never driven a 4 cylinder you don't know what you are missing.

[Bullfinch 0]

Has the bubble burst ? A hard question to answer. But based on the the standard of Corrados at Tatton Park last week, more like the gap between good and bad is widening.

This is one of the main points. All the Corrados left the showroom all shiny and new 15+ years ago now and each and every one has lived a different life. Even the famed(?) VW build quality will see the uncared for 'rados gradually start to rust away and fade or as we can see the cost of repair far exceeds the car's value and the money to be made breaking it for parts.

 

Unless you have a special customised, turbo'ed VR or concurs standard car I can never see a day (well not in the next 10 years) when a normal Corrado (yes even a Storm and I own one :lol: ) will fetch more then £5k.

[big ben 10]

a mint storm will 100% be worth more than 5k in 10 years

 

just use the mk2 golf GTI as an example, they go for more than the corrado :cuckoo: its not long before the corrados value will rise. Obviously only the half decent examples though...

[aide 0]

two factors affect price i'll pay, first reliability, only my first valver ten years ago never let me down, which is why mine is weekend only; this leads to second factor, many are becoming or have been weekenders only, current economic situation means people can no longer afford to run them, whilst others cannot afford to pay as much for them.

 

i think they're a future classic, who cares if they're not worth that much any more, i don't view it as an investment fund, and i didn't realise there was a bubble in prices in the first place.

[dukest 0]

As for people just wanting the VR6 in the longer term, folks still want both 8v, 16v, G60 and Rallye Mk 2s with a strong demand for all of those varients

I didnt mean to imply they'd only want the VR Yan, i would say the G60 too, but what i meant was that with a car that is increasingly expensive in time and money to run vs its actual value then it needs more of a draw to make that "commitment" in the first place.

 

With regard to the MK2 comparison, I think perhaps there is also a halo effect for old cars that needs to be considered - the GTi and G60 Mk2s you list above were all the top of their range and dramatically quicker than the models below them. I think that a similar effect applies to some extent to Corrado valvers vs G60s & VRs, ie. given the performance difference to new cars, if you want an older car, you might as well stay as close to the top of the range of that car as you can.

 

Its not a perfect argument, and I know that a well specced up valver can perform very capbably, I'm just saying that for such a low purchase price in the first place, people will normally buy the most capable for the sake of an extra £500-£1000. People buying other lesser models as show-cars that wont get driven is not really material to general price discussisons i dont think.

[dukest 0]

many are becoming or have been weekenders only, current economic situation means people can no longer afford to run them, whilst others cannot afford to pay as much for them.

yup

[Jim Bowen 1]

not too worried about value tbh, i've bought mine already and at the time the price was reasonable.

 

I do feel there are some members whose most important concerns are how much their car is worth when they sell it.

 

its people like us who determine the price of them

[dragon green 5]

I'am with 3corsameal, i have mine,and i cant see me ever selling it !

Value wise doesnt bother me as i have agreed value insurance.I dont lavish my hard earned on it to try and turn a profit,i do it because i enjoy the car !

Mines a daily,it has been for ten years, and always will be !

[Portent 0]

I seem to have the opposite problem to sellers... I can't seem to buy a car :?

 

Admittedly I've dithered over a few and lost out which was my own fault (lesson now learned) but I've also been messed around by some of the sellers too. I'm thinking of just giving it a break for a bit and then looking next year. I've seen a fair few rough cars and also some very good ones (should have bought one of those in hindsight!) and the price difference between them isn't great. I think we will gradually see the better stuff rising a little in price and the poorer stuff dropping away and being broken.

[Pat_McCrotch 0]

Finding a decent one is a struggle, which makes it more a pain when people totally overprice there cars :censored: A extremely good condition late 16v should come in around the mid-£1500's to £2000 maximum. So why are there are dreamers on here, autotrader and eBay who are expecting over £2k for cars that are badly rusting, have a blotchy service history and running problems? :lol:

 

The Corrado market has stalled because peoplre are overvaluing the wrong models and overpricing the bad ones!

[vornwend 0]

Ultimately its market forces that will resolve this - whether we like it or not the laws of supply and demand that determine prices. The price floor will be the break up values (less the hassle factor) and the ceiling the point at which people are no longer prepared to pay a premium for something that offers less conventional value for money than more modern or alternative cars. In a small market place like this there will always be exceptions though, so well cared for/rare/heavily modded/historic examples will have there own market place which might appear irrational to the casual observer :shock: Recent examples being Shaun's VR6, Sir Ian Holms ex car and a low mileage nugget G60 that went to a very good home

 

I agree that there are some ambitious asking prices around which may be influenced by how much the owners have invested in them - trouble with wanting to get your "money in" back is of course that a £ spent today is almost always worth less to a buyer tomorrow.

 

I do think keepng and maintaining these cars is getting more expensive so we are inevitably gonna see a lot of churn while the market is fed by folks who have put a foot in and found the water far too cold. Keep a C for more than a 3 or 4 years and its probably inevitable you're gonna have a really nasty bill amongst the more reasonable ones. I really envy those who have the time and skill to reduce the pain by doing it themselves but am eternally grateful for the knowledge there is on here as well as some really great garages/mechanics who know these cars like the back of their hands.

 

These cars are not an investment is how I view it - just a huge amount of fun when they are working as they should :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

two factors affect price i'll pay, first reliability, only my first valver ten years ago never let me down, which is why mine is weekend only; this leads to second factor, many are becoming or have been weekenders only, current economic situation means people can no longer afford to run them, whilst others cannot afford to pay as much for them.

 

i think they're a future classic, who cares if they're not worth that much any more, i don't view it as an investment fund, and i didn't realise there was a bubble in prices in the first place.

 

I guess I'm one of the lucky (or mad) ones then, driving a VR6 every day, for getting on for 8 years now. And with several modifications along the way too. 115,000 miles, 3 break downs, all my fault and I've enjoyed every single journey in it :D

 

So for me, the car's value is completely irrelevant and I don't care if values are on the decline, or on the rise. I never buy a car for it's future resale value, only for it's merits.

 

But yeah, I agree with the Patty boy, there are some right old ropey old sheds out there these days, commanding daft prices.

[vornwend 0]

 

I guess I'm one of the lucky (or mad) ones then, driving a VR6 every day, for getting on for 8 years now. And with several modifications along the way too. 115,000 miles, 3 break downs, all my fault and I've enjoyed every single journey in it :D

Me too then cos I've been driving Corrados for 14 years and only broken down once (a timing belt on 16V that went the evening before it was due to be replaced!). Admitedly the VR6 is a weekend car now but did 25,000 faultless miles in it as a daily before retiring it in 2008. TBH I really miss it so may look for another as a daily when the company lease car term runs out next year.

[Pat_McCrotch 0]

My VR blew a coolant hose after about an hour of driving it on the way to Toads :lol:

 

He swiftly came to my aid with a variety of tools, large black rubber hose and 2 bottles of G12++ :eek:

[wy906 0]

So for me, the car's value is completely irrelevant and I don't care if values are on the decline, or on the rise. I never buy a car for it's future resale value, only for it's merits.

 

+1

[g60greeny 0]

My VR blew a coolant hose after about an hour of driving it on the way to Toads :lol:

 

He swiftly came to my aid with a variety of tools, large black rubber hose and 2 bottles of G12++ :eek:

 

did he bring his gimp mask as well lol

 

ive just bought mine at a decent price for what seems like a solid straight g60,but as always i plan to things that make it my own,i did that with my last one an still got a really good price for it when i sold,i guess its all about finding the right buyer :)

[Toad 0]

My VR blew a coolant hose after about an hour of driving it on the way to Toads :lol:

 

He swiftly came to my aid with a variety of tools, large black rubber hose and 2 bottles of G12++ :eek:

 

And then I fixed the car.

 

Wheeeee.

 

I have my two and don't intend to sell them TBH, I'm not sure they're worth anything. An intergalactic 16v with knackered paint, and a fairly fresh VR6 with rust spots and a paint job by Stevie Wonder?