The Baconator's latest victim

[boost monkey 0]

omg I want your garage!!

 

---------- Post added at 08:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 AM ----------

 

@first silencer issue, are you sure it's actually that close to the tunnel itself or just the heatshield? I mean the tunnel is round obviously, but the heatshield is kinda triangular either side so it would probably be closer to the shield whilst still being a good distance from the tunnel. Not trying to teach you to suck eggs though!

 

Saying that it does look a fatty, and someone up there ^^ said there's knocks so you're prob doing the sensible thing with leaving it out for now.

[coullstar 0]

The middle silencer I added was probably bigger than that and sat very snug but it worked for me. There was not noticable vibration in the cabin and no knocking nosie. Worth giving it a bash but I fear it will be too quiet with the 3 boxes.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Cheers Guys! I think with the 268 cams in the pipeline, it's probably best to delete the first silencer for now. You can actually tweak the exhaust cam to compensate for different exhaust back pressures. On the standard MK5, I wouldn't be surprised if the exhaust cam switches to max overlap when the exhaust bypass valve is open to make the best of the reduced back pressure.

 

Ritchie, thanks for the advice. I wasn't sure where to put the oil sensor at first but what you say makes sense. So just swap the position of the pressure sensor and temp sensor? I was also going to look into what signals comes out of that sump sensor because my standalone can take oil pressure and temperature readings.

[RitchieR32 10]

Just swap them for a more reliable signal :-)

[Supercharged 2]

I think it's just oil quality and level Kev but I may be wrong...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I wonder what it detects in the oil to determine quality? it's just a plastic coated probe.

[boost monkey 0]

ickyness.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Just looked it up. The oil level uses ultrasonics and the oil condition uses a 'tuning fork' principal to listen to how the frequency wave travels through the oil..... or something. The algorithms for the oil condition look frickin complicated to me, so I won't bother with it. I was hoping for just a simple resistance output I could use as a temp reading!

[Supercharged 2]

Yeah It basically looks at how clean the oil is I think, then uses that value along with the mileage reading to dictate the long life intervals... pointless if you change the oil as often as we do!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I think it also looks at injector on time and rpm. More dilution, more shearing.

 

Exactly. I'll be doing a longlife III change every 6K probably, instead of 20K! :D Or maybe Castrol Edge as people on the R32 OC seem to rave about it.

 

Variable servicing certainly doesn't seem to do these motors any harm though. Seen plenty of 24Vs in bits and apart from the brown varnishing internally, everything else looks spot on after 100K+

[RitchieR32 10]

I'm allso using Castrol Edge, I used to run Castrol RS in the 2.9 but that has been replaced with the Edge.

[VAG-hag 0]

what a good read, cheers Kev! hats off for simply going for it - good skills mate!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Cheers Mr Hag!

 

Ritchie, Shell Helix 5W-30 is supposed to be very good too and cheaper than Quantum Longlife III and Castrol Edge. It's VW504 approved, so perfect for the R :D I will try some next.

 

How do you guys with R32s read the oil level? The dipstick is useless! So much oil comes up the tube making it very hard to read!!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Not much of an update. I've proven the cam mechanics work by seeing the cam position change as I apply some PWM percentage in the Cam map, but as yet I still haven't got round to mapping the inlet cam.

 

Other than that, just been driving it and enjoying it :D Done 1000 proving miles now, not one hiccup and uses zero oil. Such a good engine :D

 

I did make one minor change and that was to fit the MK5 rocker cover the engine should have. Had to buy a new one @ £147 as the original got destroyed when dismantling the engine.

 

MK5 fitted, MK4 behind so you can see the differences. The MK5 rocker breathes downstream of the throttle straight into the intake and the MK4 rocker breathes upstream of the throttle, just after the MAF. The MK5 rocker has a special valve system in it's breather box. You cannot breathe a MK4 rocker into a MK5 intake. Trust me on that one ;) The main reason for going MK5 rocker was to get rid of the breather pipework for a neater install.

 

 

Since the whole front end has to come off to remove the intake on R32s, I should have taken the oppurtunity to fit my 268/264 cams, but I couldn't be arsed. It's cold and I've got a cold! Still, look how shiny and sexy it looks under there. I never get bored of looking at naked 24Vs. Such a brilliant bit of engineering by Cosworth :D

 

 

I also dumped the oil pressure gauge and the oil temp gauge. I don't care about the former. I've seen the engine make the required pressures, which I'm happy with. I've never seen a pressure problem in any VR6 engine other than one that's got f'cked big ends, so the gauge is a waste of interior space. Deleted. For the latter, I will take a signal from the sump sensor :D

 

 

Whilst I'm online, I thought I'd share with you my WORST EVER car job to date. Changing the wiper mech on a BMW E34 5 series. Took me 10 hours to remove and refit, plus another couple of hours to overhaul the mechanism.

You think Corrados are bad, they are Duplo blocks compared to Bimmers. An unbelievable amount of work just to remove a wiper mech and if that's not bad enough, guess how much a new one is? £600 + £300 for the motor. Yep, more than the car's worth in wiper parts. Madness.

I didn't buy a new mech. Got some s/hand bits and cobbled a good one together.

 

 

The E34 suffers from premature wear and corrosion on the passenger side spindle, which causes the wiper arm to wobble about and whack the bonnet where it tucks under. It's why it had to come out.

 

 

Mmmm, nice spindle wear.

 

 

All cars have their weaknesses. Every single one :D

[8vMatt 1]

Haha love your enthusiasm for engineering and the mechanics of a car. A very smart looking engine.

 

My brother enjoys working on his E30 and E36 BM's. Look a nightmare to me compared to our cheap to run Rado's!!!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

They are a nightmare, but that's mainly because they're so over-engineered! :D

 

OK, been playing with the cam timing and I'm getting somewhere with it. Can already feel the benefits as the torque between 2500-4000rpm is much stronger than my turbo engine was :D

 

If anyone is interested in running an R32 with a DTA S80 and DTA STC controller (DBW), here is the map I've gradually written over the past few months. Although it drives and idles very nicely in my application, please treat it as a base map and use at your own risk! It will need dyno optimisation, but this will get it running. All sensors, coils, injectors, throttle etc are stock.

 

General Engine Settings. The really important stuff! This is where all the crank angles, rpm limit, flywheel mode, coil behaviour etc is set.

 

 

Cranking fuel table. How much, as a percentage of the base fuel map, to inject whilst cranking, against water temperature.

 

 

Main fuel table. How much fuel to inject, in milliseconds, against throttle position (can also be against MAP pressure if you prefer). 4 bar FPR used.

 

 

Main fuel graph. A graphical representation of the fuel table. Fuel tables always follow an engine's torque curve. The graph is editable too, which is handy!

 

 

Ignition timing table. When to fire the spark plugs, in degrees before piston reaches top dead centre (BTDC). The R32 needs a lot less timing than the VR6. This is mainly because of the 32's combustion chamber shape and flat top pistons, so the fuel burns a lot faster. The faster fuel burns, the less timing you need ;)

 

 

Ignition timing graph. Another editable and graphical representation, but timing this time. Timing is the opposite to fuel usually, i.e. it reduces as engine load increases. Part throttle fuel mixtures burn a lot slower than full throttle ones, hence the higher timing when cruising etc.

 

 

Manifold pressure compensation. This is an industry standard map. You will need a map sensor to use MAP compensations. Standalones don't run MAFs (more intake freedom!). It works a bit like a rising rate FPR. As pressure increases, more fuel is injected and when you cruise and go into over run, the fuel is pulled back.

 

 

Water temperature compensation. Most of you will know this as the "Blue temp sender". It's basically an electronic choke and fairly self explanatory.

 

 

Air temperature compensation. This another standard map. Boyle's law suggests that for every 10 deg increase in air temp, the oxygen content reduces by 3% and if you have 3% less oxygen, you need 3% less fuel ;) This map takes care of that.

 

 

Battery compensation. When you crank the engine over, the battery voltage drops considerably. When this happens, both the injectors and coils need to work a bit harder to start the engine. These numbers seem to work well for me.

 

 

Lambda (wideband) parameters. This table controls the lambda behaviour. Too beefy a topic to cover here, but these numbers are a good start. Notice the twin wideband capability, for those running stock R32 downpipes ;)

 

 

Lambda Target. The lambda controls will attempt to meet the air fuel ratio targets laid out in this table. The R32 runs quite lean until quite high load and rpm but it's capable of running it a lot leaner than this. I've had it cruising at 80mph running 17:1 AFR!! I run stock AFRs for now for safety, but this engine is certainly capable of a good mpg.

 

 

Sequential fuel settings. This is where you set the sequential injection and fan control. You can also trim each of the 6 cylinders individually if there are any cylinder balancing issues, but you won't need that with the 32.

 

 

Coil per plug settings. This works alongside the Sequential settings to determine the cam sensor position for up to 4 cam sensors (audi & BMW V8s etc). It's pretty complicated to say the least but this is all you need to know :D I'm not firing the coils sequentially (aka "full sequential") as I don't see the need and VW don't do that either. Instead they are fired in 'wasted spark' as per the VR6. In other words, 1 & 6 fire, 5&2 and 3&4. There is no advantage to sequential coils other than a slight reduction in battery current draw.

 

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Auxillary 3. I use this Aux output to control the intake manifold. I've found the switch over from the torque ports to the power ports seamless when switching at 4400rpm and this table reflects that. VW switch to the power ports at 4000rpm, which is too early and gives the flattening of the power you can feel past 4K when driving an R32.

 

 

Idle parameters. The controlling settings for idle. I'm using DTA's DBW controller, so the appropriate tick box is ticked :D

 

 

Idle PWM. This table governs how much the throttle opens to maintain the idle speed, in % open. Gives you an idea of flow from that huge 32 throttle if it only needs 2% to hold an 800rpm idle.

 

 

Cam parameters. The set of controls for the inlet cam. The 32's Cam control is very tricky. It's not as easy as a simply VTEC switch. These numbers aren't perfect but they'll get you started. The inlet cam oscillates a bit but I'm still working on the PIDs to damp it. I'll update the thread as things improve :D

 

 

Cam base PWM. The PWM % applied to the cam adjuster solenoid. This is a holding map and the PID controls increase or decrease them to give the desired cam movement. When operating the solenoids at 80hz, the cam starts to move at 62% PWM. It's very sensitive and therefore very tricky to get a stable cam map.

 

 

Cam advance table. This is more or less what VW advance the inlet cam. Can you spot the peak torque rpm band? ;)

 

 

DBW safety. This map is a saftey control for the DBW, should the throttle suddenly decide to ignore the pedal and open itself fully outside a school. There are no known instances of this in VWs that I'm aware of, but it's a wise precaution.

 

 

DBW Controller general settings. This map sets the butterfly sensor positions, motor frequency etc etc. Essential stuff.

 

 

Pedal translation. If you want to alter the throttle behaviour to open it more or less for a given pedal movement, you can do that here.

 

 

Throttle error - low. Getting a throttle to move by itself against pedal movement is open to error, so this map corrects any incorrect throttle plate movements.

 

 

Throttle error - high. Same thing, but for the other direction. Basically these two maps constantly tweak the throttle to bring it back to the requested pedal movement.

 

 

Throttle holding PWM. This table is for when you are holding the throttle in the same position for a while, such as in an idle or cruise situation.

 

 

And that's pretty much it for now. There's a lot more you can do but these are the 'basics' that will get your engine running nicely :D

[bristolbaron 10]

bloody hell kev.. i have no idea what youve just posted. I like the shiny cover though.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

That was partially for your benefit mate as I know you've got a DTA on yours too ;) There's another guy on here with a DTA managed R32 asking about the cam adjustment too, so it's a good central resource for us 32ers!

 

The upshot is it's looking like I can stay away from the VW ECU as it's behaving well. It actually drives better than a VW managed R32 imo. Not as snatchy off the mark, more laid back but just as quick :D

 

I got patty his crotch to price up a MK4 r32 ECU and looms, just in case, over 2 grand by the time the ECU's been to SWICT or Stealth for the emissions / security crap removal! Erm, yeah, sod that!

[JJS 0]

Beat me too it bristol baron. Dito. Bloody hell kev, If you can do all that then I reckon you could sort the eurozone out! Give France a call if u get a spare moment over the weekend will ya! Will Def have to drop by and see that lovely motor some time. Jon

Edited January 13, 2012 by JJS

[Purple Tom 0]

Looks great, and very kind of you to share your hard-earned data so readily! I presume your mapping has all been done on the road with the laptop plugged in?

 

I wanted to ask as I've heard rumours but I understand that quite a lot of 'remaps' for DBW cars involve quite a large modification to the Pedal Translation aspect of things. By that I mean that the pedal translation is tweaked to give 100% throttle quite a bit earlier in the pedal movement, if that makes sense? Therefore the car 'feels' quicker because the throttle opens more than before the remap for the same pedal movement.

 

Another reason I ask is because my Mum has just bought a brand new Alfa Romeo Mito 1.6 JTD. Its quite a nice little car and has Alfa's 'DNA' technology fitted, which is supposedly borrowed from Ferrari and has three modes; Dynamic, Normal and All Weather. When switching from 'Normal' to 'Dynamic' while holding the throttle steady you feel a noticeable surge and the car 'feels' a bit quicker. However, if you plonk it back into 'Normal' and then give it plenty of throttle (on the pedal), the car picks up just the same as when its in Dynamic mode, albeit with a lot of dead pedal at the top of the travel, and vice versa when its in Dynamic. So, I'm inclined to believe that all this system does (as regards the performance) is alter the Pedal Translation settings in the ECU. It might well tighten up the dampers and alter the TCS, but I think it does bugger all to the performance!

 

Sorry for the long post - Kev, your engine looks brilliant! Could well be tempted with a 24V one day :)

[WigsVR6 0]

Ouch my head hurts trying to take in them tables and graphs. Top marks though for not only having the mechanical nouse but also being able to use the software to get the engine running! What goes on in the background is amazing when you think about it. Alls I'm bothrered about is putting my right hoof down and getting going lol.

 

How are you finding fuel consumption now you've got a few miles under your belt?

 

Cheers Alan

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Cheers guys! I don't know that I can sort out the Eurozone & restore France's AAA credit rating, not unless France is mappable :D

 

It's handy to keep a copy of the screens somewhere in case my laptop dies!

 

I haven't worked out the fuel consumption yet but it's certainly chewing through it whilst it's being mapped :lol: It will return mid 30s when I've finished with it though ;)

 

Yeah Tom, out on the road with the laptop! I have no problem sharing the info. Unlike professional mappers, I don't have the cost of premises, labour and mapping equipment to recoup :D

 

Yep that's it with the DBW. I bet it's the lower rpm, smaller pedal movements that sharpen up with the dynamic mode? That is one thing that bugs me with modern engines, the peaky torque delivery. Everything arrives in one lump way below the fun rpms! I'm trying to make mine feel a bit more old school!

[Danny B 0]

I'm not sure if I'm happy or sad I havent got a clue what your talking about with those graphs and tables Mr.Wishfick :D

 

......either way :salute:

[Rob_B 0]

good stuff Kev, some serious functionality there with the DTA. Are you mapping with a wideband afr gauge in the car? Are you mapping on the fly on your own, or are you passengering with a driver?