The Baconator's latest victim

[Swompy 0]

I will pm you later as its not 100% certain yet.

 

Ooo does it now that sounds promising. What would that involve then to get thos results?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

OK, cool!

 

Literally just a less conservative remap mate. I assume you won't be running the twin cats and will use a free flow filter? So you should be way past 200hp :D

 

24Vs respond well to cams. The 12V if you ran 268s would rob you of some torque, but the 24v (R32 especially) seems to give you more power and torque everywhere in the rev range with a juicy cam like that :D I don't know of anyone that makes cams for the AUE though. Schrick might, at a price!

[Swompy 0]

Fair enough ya it will be using a bmc cda and the car has a jetex on it all ready. When I can i will be removing the cat.

 

Can't find any cams on the net but will have a chat with Graham when I go collect the car

[thegrouch 10]

My absolute favourite build thread by a country mile! Continually amazes me the level of detail and knowledge that goes into this car, great work mate, be great to see it in the metal.

[pete_griff 0]

cheese-fish!

 

how are you doing buddy, been a while since i poked my nose around here. have to say the install is looking tasty, very neatly done as per usual.

 

did you wrap up the manifolds/downpipes with the inlet hose going round there and/or is there any more "heath-robinson" heatshielding?!? interested to see how you get on with that funky intake tract...

also surpised your battery migrated back up front, but i guess if you're going down the OEM+ route then i can understand it.

 

did you get anywhere with looking at your Mk3 ABS system conversion in the end, also same question for any reinforcing of the bulkhead to reduce flex when pressing the pedals?

 

 

i'm also very interested to see how you get on with the DTA when you get it mapped to see what sort of power you're making. unfortunately i never got my R32 on the rollers to see what sort of power it was making, but from the "bum-dyno" it felt pretty rapid. it was defo a fair chunk faster in a straight line than the evo 6 i had immediately afterwards and it really felt ballsy off the mark due to all the low-end torque. if i had to guess i would say mine was around the 280 mark, maybe a little more but who knows.

ah the memories!

 

i reckon you'll do pretty well with the DTA on there and none of the gubbins that the OEM ECU is lumbered with. is it difficult to set up the variable cam timing using the DTA, i mean i know it's just a servo moving a tensioner on the chain between the cams, just wondering if it was difficult to get it right. also does the variable inlet tract of the r32 manifold have a massive onward effect on the cam timing and fuelling?

 

 

nice to see you're just about there anyway - really looking forward to hearing the usual 12 page glossary write-up once you've got it somewhere near daily use again...

(right before you undoubtedly find some excuse to rip it to bits again ;) )

[Kevin Bacon 5]

My absolute favourite build thread by a country mile! Continually amazes me the level of detail and knowledge that goes into this car, great work mate, be great to see it in the metal.

 

Thanks squire, very kind words indeed :D Still a long way to go yet!

 

 

cheese-fish!

 

how are you doing buddy, been a while since i poked my nose around here. have to say the install is looking tasty, very neatly done as per usual.

 

did you wrap up the manifolds/downpipes with the inlet hose going round there and/or is there any more "heath-robinson" heatshielding?!? interested to see how you get on with that funky intake tract...

also surpised your battery migrated back up front, but i guess if you're going down the OEM+ route then i can understand it.

 

Cheers chap, good to see you're still lurking around in the backgronud! :D How's the old Mmmmm 5?

 

I'm not too concerned about the heatshielding at the moment. I'll finish off all the finer points once it's running satisfactorily :D

If the Corrado air box doesn't work out I'll do it the same as Kip's with the MK1 TT DSG airbox and relocate the washer tank! Or maybe a BMC.

 

did you get anywhere with looking at your Mk3 ABS system conversion in the end, also same question for any reinforcing of the bulkhead to reduce flex when pressing the pedals?

 

Nope, I haven't done any of that because I can't be bothered at the moment tbh! I can do that at a later date when I get round to replacing the brake lines cause they'll all need redoing for the MK3 ABS pump anyway.

 

i'm also very interested to see how you get on with the DTA when you get it mapped to see what sort of power you're making. unfortunately i never got my R32 on the rollers to see what sort of power it was making, but from the "bum-dyno" it felt pretty rapid. it was defo a fair chunk faster in a straight line than the evo 6 i had immediately afterwards and it really felt ballsy off the mark due to all the low-end torque. if i had to guess i would say mine was around the 280 mark, maybe a little more but who knows.

ah the memories!

 

Me too! I haven't been out on the road with it yet. The missus has got me working on the bathroom at the moment and I'm also ashamed to admit I'm more interested in my Xbox 360 these days than car mapping!! Maybe it's just because it's winter. I hate working on cars over winter. It's all taxed, insured and ready to go. Just need to find the time to do it.

 

You're the only person I know who's done an R32 conversion that's showed any real excitement about it's performance! So many people complain of flatspots or other minor niggles but you seem to be the lucky one who got a ballistic missile from the get go :D The DTA will absoulutely obliterate any flat spots because it's about as concerned about the environment as Jeremy Clarkson is!

 

 

i reckon you'll do pretty well with the DTA on there and none of the gubbins that the OEM ECU is lumbered with. is it difficult to set up the variable cam timing using the DTA, i mean i know it's just a servo moving a tensioner on the chain between the cams, just wondering if it was difficult to get it right. also does the variable inlet tract of the r32 manifold have a massive onward effect on the cam timing and fuelling?

 

You're thinking of the AUE / 1.8T cam adjustment there chap, which is either on or off. The R32 has a far more sophisticated variable adjustment system on both cams. Setting it up requires a dyno as it's easier to see the effects it has on power etc, but software wise it's pretty easy to manage :D As for the intake and fuelling, absolutely! VW switch the intake into "Torque mode" at 900rpm and the intake VVT is fully advanced by 1100rpm. That much extra air going in certainly needs some bonus fuel to match! It also explains why the 32 is so abrupt off the mark. I can soften that down with the DTA and tailot it more to my tastes :D Personally speaking, the corrado doesn't need so much torque off the line as it's 300kg lighter than the engine's parent car. I can also do pedal translation, which alters the percentage the butterfly moves vs pedal movement. i.e. aggressive [standard] mode through medium to soft response. Revo have the same thing on their R32 software, which you can adjust on the fly. IMO the aggressive throttle works well with DSG but it's a total ball ache with a manual.

 

nice to see you're just about there anyway - really looking forward to hearing the usual 12 page glossary write-up once you've got it somewhere near daily use again...

(right before you undoubtedly find some excuse to rip it to bits again ;) )

 

Thanks mate, I'll be sure to update this thread with either some waxing lyrical news, or "It's slow and I hate it" news!

[VR6Joni 0]

Kev, are you mapping this with a MAP sensor?

If so can the DTA make adjustments (i.e. switch maps or additional enrichment) to account for the extra air flow due to the VVT and manifold geometry.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Kev, are you mapping this with a MAP sensor?

If so can the DTA make adjustments (i.e. switch maps or additional enrichment) to account for the extra air flow due to the VVT and manifold geometry.

 

Yes and Yes.

 

There's dedicated VVT control as well as flexible analogues.

 

For example this is the FA map I use for the intake flap. As you can see, you can use any input for control as well as a second input, which if you were controlling cam solenoids would be useful to limit control until say, 80 deg water or oil temp is achieved, which helps when different oil viscosity affects the cam variator's behaviour.

[VR6Joni 0]

That's good to know, was thinking it could prove a right PITA to map without that kind of functionality. Also bodes well for when the inevitable happens and the turbo is put back into action.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The DTA is very versatile. If it doesn't have a feature you want out of the box, you can program one of the 9 Aux outputs to get it to do what you want :D DTA are constantly updating it and pushing out new features too, which is always nice!

 

I'm hoping a tuned-up R32 will provide enough power to keep me happy as the thought of turboing it is gradually losing it's appeal. With the cost of fuel constantly going up and 24V turbo parts having a large 'R32 tax' attached, not to mention the south east being one big traffic jam now, I'm not convinced it's worthwhile. God I sound like that depressed robot off Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy :lol: Seriously though, I cry when I see the cost of 24V T parts but I suppose with the big R under the bonnet, I only need 8psi of boost to be 50hp more than where I was at with the 12V turbo!

[KADVR6 0]

oh my god what has happened to you kev?? you have gone all sensible on us!!!!

 

what about throwing a charger on the side of the R??

 

---------- Post added at 05:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:37 PM ----------

 

oh my god what has happened to you kev?? you have gone all sensible on us!!!!

 

what about throwing a charger on the side of the R??

[pete_griff 0]

hey bud, the bimmer is going well (touch wood) cheers. not i've given it a fairly good overhaul it's nice just to drive it and not have to worry too much about the rest of it as it's pretty much totally stock.

 

i won't lie, i wish it was a bit faster, but then i've had it over 2.5 years now which is the longest i've ever kept a car. that says something about how i feel about it and also explains why it feels slow!

that said, i've recently invested in a much maller steed with only 2 wheels and that one does 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, so hopefully that will keep the addiction at bay for a while!

 

 

totally understand your feelings on working on cars over the cold, dark winter days; it's just depressing isn't it. still you're pretty much there now, so quit whining and finish it off!

 

 

that's cool about the valve timing too - i was under the impression that the tensioner between the two cams was how the variable timing was controlled and that the amount of advance/retard applied by the tensioner was controlled by oil pressure dictated by the two oil solenoids that sit in the side of the head below it; am i totally barking up the wrong tree with that one?

 

agree with you on the throttle mapping as well. when i had mine remapped, the guy also revised the throttle map so it wasn't as snappy. it would still spin like a bitch if i wasn't delicate with the throttle though, even with the quaife.

 

you coming to the stealth RR day for a chinwag? there's a ticket for a drive in the BM tucked behind my ear for you if you do! ;)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

oh my god what has happened to you kev?? you have gone all sensible on us!!!!

 

what about throwing a charger on the side of the R??

 

I have considered that actually, a nice Rotrex :D They work well on the 24V because they kick in when the engine's natural torque falls off, so you get a nice punchy top end too!

 

 

hey bud, the bimmer is going well (touch wood) cheers. not i've given it a fairly good overhaul it's nice just to drive it and not have to worry too much about the rest of it as it's pretty much totally stock.

 

i won't lie, i wish it was a bit faster, but then i've had it over 2.5 years now which is the longest i've ever kept a car. that says something about how i feel about it and also explains why it feels slow!

that said, i've recently invested in a much maller steed with only 2 wheels and that one does 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, so hopefully that will keep the addiction at bay for a while!

 

I think 0-60 on a bike is pointless tbh! The last bike I rode was a CBR600 (110hp version) about 10 years ago and giving it the beans from a standstill, what felt like a few seconds later I looked at the speedo and I was approaching 100mph! How you boys with 1000cc Superbikes manage to stay on the things is a mystery to me but bikes are certainly speed on a whole different level :D

 

Shame the 5 has to go after all work you've put into it though.

 

totally understand your feelings on working on cars over the cold, dark winter days; it's just depressing isn't it. still you're pretty much there now, so quit whining and finish it off!

 

that's cool about the valve timing too - i was under the impression that the tensioner between the two cams was how the variable timing was controlled and that the amount of advance/retard applied by the tensioner was controlled by oil pressure dictated by the two oil solenoids that sit in the side of the head below it; am i totally barking up the wrong tree with that one?

 

agree with you on the throttle mapping as well. when i had mine remapped, the guy also revised the throttle map so it wasn't as snappy. it would still spin like a bitch if i wasn't delicate with the throttle though, even with the quaife.

 

The cam adjustment on the R is completely different to the early 24V. The R uses a "Cam Phaser module" made by Hyrdaulik Ring Gmbh (who also make BMW's VANOS on the later Ms incidentally) - http://www.hilite.com/products/engine-products/camphaser-modules.html

 

Anyway, how it works is very simple :D. Attached to each cam is a big hydraulic variator (which you can see in my previous pics) that can move the cams in the opposite direction to engine rotation, thereby 'advancing' the valve openings to let more air in.

Machined into the ends of the cams are 3 oil channels, which are basically rest, advance and retard. These 3 oil channels fill 3 matching holes in the cam phaser module and the solenoids are basically just plungers which move in and out of those 3 oil ways to control the flow of oil to the variators. Sounds complicated but it really isn't :D

 

The engine will run perfectly fine with no cam adjustment at all, or the intake in fact, which is how people get away with running them on standalones but to run an R32 with no intake or cam adjustment is like eating a Victoria sponge with no cream & jam filling.

 

As I mentioned previously, the way the cams open fully at ~1000rpm and the intake switches to 'torque mode' at 900rpm is partly why it's so snappy low down. I'm going to try and bring the cams in a bit more progressively for a smoother launch :D

 

 

you coming to the stealth RR day for a chinwag? there's a ticket for a drive in the BM tucked behind my ear for you if you do! ;)

 

I'm certainly hoping to mate and with an offer like that, I'll come up on a pedal bike if I have to :D

Edited November 10, 2011 by Kevin Bacon

[swiftkid 1]

Outstanding knowledge as always Kev, this and the audi SWB quattro on edition38 are by far my favourite build threads. I love seeing upgrades to cars and constant development, I always seem to learn things reading this thread. I keep looking at my bank balance and thinking "do I really need to save for a house, I'm sure I could live in my turbo'd/R32'd corrado" :lol:

 

Looking forward to seeing it at rolling road though!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Thanks mate :D

 

I should add at this point that what I've typed is just my understanding of it all and may not be 100% accurate :lol:

[bristolbaron 11]

wow.. good work.. especially with getting the air feed round the back. I was thinking its a shame it couldnt be done, but looks like it can!

 

thats confirmed for me that i'll come up to the rolling road day in something even if i can get my daily on the road. I've got many questions!

[pete_griff 0]

howdy again buddy, thanks v much for the explaination there - very informative and much apprecaited.

 

funny you should mention the VANOS on my car as i was thining those pulleys looked fairly similar! also not selling the M5 buddy; i'm being greedy and keeping both the M5 and the bike, best of both worlds and all that. i'll be honest i've been umming and arrring about selling the 5 for a while now, but i've spent a fair bit of time, effort and cash getting it right and i just can't think of anything i'd really like to replace it with at the moment that doesn't cost £25k and over.

 

 

anyhow, you'll hopefully see why i like it when you get up to the Stealth RR day; if you ask me really nicely i'll show you where the button for the traction control is! :twisted:

(nice new avatar by the way)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

BristolBaron, I can definitely, 100%, absolutely, no question, totally recommend an R32 install! :D

 

Pete, I'm glad to hear that mate. After all the work you put into your big 5, you'd be committing a crime of the highest order letting that go!

 

In other news, as you can probably tell by my response to Mr Baron, I'm absolutely smitten with the the R32 engine! I've done 150ish miles in it this weekend running it in and trying to map it and the torque and noise are utterly addictive :D

 

Remember it was a 'rescue' engine that had been sat in a garden for a number of years and had to be stripped and rehoned. I dumped the running-in oil at 100 miles (quantum silver) and that cleared out any swarf and other debris that got in the oilways whilst it was being built. I then filled up with longlife III yesterday and that's shown an improvement already, feeling smoother and also more responsive from cold :D

 

Whilst out testing, I got the jump on a Focus ST at the lights (can't really help it with the 32's bottom end and throttle response) of a dual-carriageway intersection, which he didn't like and tried all kinds of silly attempts to undertake me, but failed. I have no idea if it was a remapped ST or not but he couldn't pull away from me at all after a few attempts, so I'm pleased the engine is at least comparable to something modern and quick.

 

Not bad for a home brew conversion and I haven't even mapped the VVT yet :D When I've dropped the 268 cams in I think it might turn into a bit of animal. It's already bloody quick low down because of the G60 final drive!

 

Obviously comparisons to the VRT need to be made since that was my previous engine and it's actually not that far off overall I'd say. The VRT had a ballistic top end the R32 can't possibly hope to match, but the 32 is strangely quick in a different way. The sensation of torque you get at 3500rpm onwards in a VRT is there below 3500rpm (around 2500rpm) in a Corrado 32 and the mph needle moves round just as rapidly! If I can get my planned 100hp/litre out of it, then a VRT would struggle against it on real world B roads, it really would.

 

I don't know why more people don't do R32 conversions, they're such a blast!! I can see why Pete misses his!

 

There is only one downside. The exhaust. Being the old turbo exhaust it only has 1 silencer and it's waaaaaay too loud. I'm trying to sort a replacement out but I'm not sure I'll get it done before the RR day, so I may have to drive up with ear defenders on!

 

Oh and after 7 months I'd forgotten just what an incredible car the Corrado is to drive. OK I have KW V3s and some nice stuff on mine, but the fundamental car is just amazing compared to diluted modern crap. The steering feel and feedback are utterly sublime and I've really missed the old girl :D

[Jim 2]

Wonderful news Kev :) Can't wait to see it!

 

On the subject of the R32 conversion, I'd seriously consider it.. would you consider a commission to do another one of these on someone elses car? ;)

Edited November 14, 2011 by Jim

[Jim Bowen 1]

Definatley something i need to look towards, about to sort most things out on mine except the engine and i imagine within the next year or so i will need to think about a new engine.

 

What was all the problems Rob had with his? Pedal and flat spots etc? Have you solved that on your one?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

On the subject of the R32 conversion, I'd seriously consider it.. would you consider a commission to do another one of these on someone elses car? ;)

 

Always a tricky one that :D I'm really flattered you think my abilities are marketable but it's one thing experimenting on your own car and a whole different ball game on someone else's, especially when money changes hands!!

 

It's actually not that difficult to do though Jim :D My install was completely out of the ordinary and I made it up as I went along :D I wouldn't expect anyone to follow my lead on that one as it's £1500 (MRP) in ECUs for starters!

99% of R32 convertees don't really run into any major difficulties when using all the stock ECU and wiring etc, well, except this mysterious flat spot which mine doesn't have I hasten to add :D

 

I'm happy to help anyone out at an advisory level as I'm sure are other R32 convertees :D

[quicky1980 0]

I had the same "experience" with the new Ford RS, gave its driver a wake up call. Both cars were similar on the long private road, not sure how they would compare through the twisty bits or from standstill.

 

Glad your happy with it too, i remember the first day after I finished mine big smiles for weeks (and still now) I look forward to seeing what you manage to get out of it.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

What was all the problems Rob had with his? Pedal and flat spots etc? Have you solved that on your one?

 

I have no idea what's up with Rob's, some kind of weird issue with the torque dropping out. I suspect there's an issue somewhere the ECU isn't happy about and it's closing the throttle for self preservation. I saw his A4 TDi doing that (in VAG-COM) as well when it was over-boosting. It just closed the throttle from 100% to ~ 50% :lol:

 

The problem is the MK5 ECU platform isn't that well known outside of Revo. There are loads of files available for the MK4 ECU (the platform I recommend personally) but virtually nothing for the MK5, so it's a case of waiting for guys like Vince to figure out the niggles over time.

 

There's no flat-spots on mine at all. I'm not sure if a 7 month absence from my VRT has reset my sense of speed or not, but my 32 conversion just feels really nice and any car that can make my missus's 1.8T feel slow is quick in my book, which it does! The Polo used to make the VRT feel slow from a standstill (I kid you not) but the Corrado32 just makes a complete mockery of any 1.8T I've driven, and a [standard] 2.0 TFSi come to that.

 

As I say, mine's still in it's infancy. When the VVT is dialled in and 268 cams added, it's going to be fast as hell :D

 

---------- Post added at 12:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 PM ----------

 

I had the same "experience" with the new Ford RS, gave its driver a wake up call. Both cars were similar on the long private road, not sure how they would compare through the twisty bits or from standstill.

 

Glad your happy with it too, i remember the first day after I finished mine big smiles for weeks (and still now) I look forward to seeing what you manage to get out of it.

 

Quality! There's absolutely nothing wrong with yours then if it can keep with an RS! They're about 300hp aren't they?

 

That's the thing, I never saw any big smiles from Rob about his at all!! Only complaints about it's trickiness to drive smoothly at low revs and the torque hole thing. He always moans about it being slow but it put down a very respectable 278hp on the rollers and apparently it kept up with this boss's 335d!

 

Then again, he was using my VRT as a yardstick for performance, lol! I have to say though, every time I've followed him in the VRT it had no trouble at all keeping with him low down. I always expected an R32 to show a VRT the finger low down. It SHOULD show a VRT the bird as it has about 100lbft more at 2500rpm!!

 

Then again, he does have the standard gearing. I cannot stress enough how much the standard final drive slows down a VR6! VW obviously chose it to get some kind of economy out of it but they went too far imo. The engine just doesn't have enough torque below 4000rpm to make use of it.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Kevin Bacon

[coullstar 0]

Good to hear, it does sound just like my old green one with a little bit extra. Ive heard that might be up for sale....

 

Anyway good to hear its going well and the R engine is suiting you. All I can say is do not go in a car with one of these engines with a turbo fitted. Was out in a turbo'd R Mk2 on Sat and the power is relentess. Compared to my old car where it would pull but tail off slightly this thing was like it shifted another gear. That was with a GT3582 as well, utterly mental.

[swiftkid 1]

Really glad to hear its running right, I always kick myself for not finishing my R32 conversion but its all about circumstances. Will definitely need a good poke around this at the rolling road day, might give me a push into going down that route!

 

Quick question about the final drive you might know, I've been looking at doing the G60 final drive but I would hate to lower the gearing at top end as in my opinion 4th and 5th are too close. Would you have any idea what a g60 final drive and a diesel 5th would be like? I'm hoping that would give me best of both worlds.