Ron's Blackberry VR6 - A11 VRX - Getting her back on the road

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Its funny, the charger is fine, makes more power and that's all good. But because of the way the power is delivered, all above 4K rpm it kind of makes the car feel sluggish in normal driving.

 

That's why nearly all of us who started with chargers went turbo shortly after :D There really is no comparison. Turbo is night / day faster.

 

The irony of the VF kits is everyone shunned turbos as too expensive, but it cost us all a lot more in the long run as we hated the Charger's power delivery :lol:

 

It's why I keep on like a stuck record: Skip the charger and go straight to turbo :D

[loepan 11]

can I ask a dumb question?

 

regarding your charger, forget the fact it doesn't kick in until 4k etc, did the super charger affect the lower range compared to the standard lower na range? is that what your saying?

 

or do they have both the same low range but the charger just kicks in, like you say when you 'rag' it

 

If any body knows or has a vid of a turbo driven corrado, how do I put this, correctly? or maybe normally? i.e. not trying for a 0-60 with wheelspin in the first three gears id appreciate it

I know this goes against everything going turbo/charged.....but I love the v6 engine tone, I want to hear that warble through the rev range or at least savour it a little longer before the fssssssssssssh kick in

 

as I stated first dumb question ;-)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

CrazyDave's VRT still had the VR6 warble. It's only when you fit a short runner do you lose that.

 

The Supercharger is still a large parasitic load the engine has to turn even when not making any boost.

[loepan 11]

cheers kev ill do some research

[Hofmiester 10]

Last night I took the charger kit off the car, only took 3 hours which is not bad at all. Went back to standard air box as well just for extra OEM goodness. Although my ECU is running a map that Vince did for the car pre-charger

 

It drives so much better, it is slower but it FEELS more alive. Pick up from low revs is better and overall it is balanced.

Miss the top end surge a bit from the charger but this is much better to driver overall.

 

In my case it's not about VRT vs SC, I've had big turbo cars already and they have their own issues.....dangerous torque steer, gearbox failures and heat related engine bay damage (plastic parts getting fried)

I agree that if you want 300-400bhp in a Corrado then VRT is the way to go but....who the F would want a 400bhp C? it's a 20 yr old car and handles like one (I say that as I've had every VW chassis from 1972 beetle through MK1 to MK7)

By the time the MK5 came out, the Corrado was well and truly beaten on real handling (not for feel though, they feel great to drive!)

 

I've come to the conclusion that I like the way an NA Corrado drives. My car is a nice example, FSH and mint throughout so I don't want to ruin it by pursuing the modification bug.

 

If I want 400bhp+ I'd just buy an M5 :)

 

 

 

That's why nearly all of us who started with chargers went turbo shortly after :D There really is no comparison. Turbo is night / day faster.

 

The irony of the VF kits is everyone shunned turbos as too expensive, but it cost us all a lot more in the long run as we hated the Charger's power delivery :lol:

 

It's why I keep on like a stuck record: Skip the charger and go straight to turbo :D

[Kevin Bacon 5]

It's not just about power, but the way the power comes in and if you're breaking gearboxes and have dangerous torque steer, then you're using the wrong components and running too much boost!

 

Perhaps I should have said a turbo doesn't feel like it's sapping anything low down and kicks in sooner.

 

Yes I completely agree the Corrado handles like a 20 year old car, but better than other 20 year old cars of the time (imo). As for who would want 400hp, why would anyone want a 500hp 20 year old Nissan 200SX to drift around a track? Why does anyone want the things they want? It's no different to people taking MK5 ED30s and boosting those to 400hp. That is not a 400hp capable chassis, but people still do it.

 

No, you came to the conclusion the rest of us did, that S/Cing a VR6 is not the way to go and a standard one is better than living with the compromises of the charger ;)

 

M5s are nice, but steering feel you say? Hmmmm, you won't like the E39 then :D And you'll be needing to change the rod bearings ASAP if not done already, which isn't cheap. And it weighs ~1800kg and doesn't FEEL 400hp fast.

 

I'm not saying a VRT is all things to all men, far from it, but if done properly it's a very entertaining car indeed.

 

As for FWD and high power, that's why I currently have 4WD :D

[Jim 2]

M5s are nice, but steering feel you say? Hmmmm, you won't like the E39 then :D And you'll be needing to change the rod bearings ASAP if not done already, which isn't cheap. And it weighs ~1800kg and doesn't FEEL 400hp fast.

 

I drove Pete Griff's M5 several times, and it certainly felt 400BHP fast to me! I admit I haven't owned any properly fast cars, but I have certainly driven a fair few now (combinations of friends cars, and on various track experiences) and the M5 felt about as quick as I expected it to. It was stunning! :)

[coullstar 0]

Lol, this thread is what was going through my mind when I sold my VRT. The car was amazingly capable and fast but you thought "whats going to go bang next". Saying that my car war very reliable but again with the chassis and FWD there was always this doubt that the car was not designed to do this. Thats the main reason I sold.

I did miss the power kick so started looking for something that was designed to go that fast and put the power down, hence why I went for the RS4. I do also agree that a near standard car can be as much fun now. I dont regret owning the car and wouldnt put anyone of getting there car turbo'd but Ive pretty much come to the conclusion Im keeping my car relatively standard as well now.

[Hofmiester 10]

You're totally right Kev, SC is not good on the VR6. I'm also saying that VRT is also not a perfect solution, I've had 27 cars since I past my test, most modified so I've done little remaps through to big turbos....all good fun but all ended in a massive financial loss and ultimately not being satisfied due to all the compromises.

 

Basically I like my Corrados fairly standard and if I want 400bhp then I'll buy a car that was designed with 400bhp :)

 

 

It's not just about power, but the way the power comes in and if you're breaking gearboxes and have dangerous torque steer, then you're using the wrong components and running too much boost!

 

Perhaps I should have said a turbo doesn't feel like it's sapping anything low down and kicks in sooner.

 

Yes I completely agree the Corrado handles like a 20 year old car, but better than other 20 year old cars of the time (imo). As for who would want 400hp, why would anyone want a 500hp 20 year old Nissan 200SX to drift around a track? Why does anyone want the things they want? It's no different to people taking MK5 ED30s and boosting those to 400hp. That is not a 400hp capable chassis, but people still do it.

 

No, you came to the conclusion the rest of us did, that S/Cing a VR6 is not the way to go and a standard one is better than living with the compromises of the charger ;)

 

M5s are nice, but steering feel you say? Hmmmm, you won't like the E39 then :D And you'll be needing to change the rod bearings ASAP if not done already, which isn't cheap. And it weighs ~1800kg and doesn't FEEL 400hp fast.

 

I'm not saying a VRT is all things to all men, far from it, but if done properly it's a very entertaining car indeed.

 

As for FWD and high power, that's why I currently have 4WD :D

[fla 9]

I know if slightly off topic, but very interesting comments. Kev, how would you compare the r32 conversion (or in fact even a 2.8 conversion) with a VRT? Or indeed a cam'd up OBD2 standard vr6? Not just in terms of all out power but usability, concerns about things breaking all the time and compromise?

[mic_VR 3]

I wasn't going to comment on this but it's these kind of things I think about all the time. I've got the 24v conversion and I love it, a load of low down punch compared to the VR due to the variable intake and VVT but I really fancy something with 350+bhp so I'm thinking of adding a turbo.

 

Problem is I'm not sure it's FWD suitable and I'm not sure if really I should accept the fact I need to go 4WD or RWD or at least get a car designed to take the power. But that means moving on from the Corrado and I know people say 'Well you can get another' but I'm not sure there are that many really good ones changing hands at the moment. People are keeping the top class ones and give it a few years and it'll be all project cars with the rest owned by people that aren't interested in selling.... and mine is pretty much mint at the moment bar the non-standard engine so would I get another in a similar state??

 

So do I accept that it's going to cost me and go for the turbo anyway? Or stick with the 205bhp I have at the moment? Decisions Decisions.

[Hofmiester 10]

I'd really like a Z4M Coupe....and to keep the Corrado but £££££!

[sexybourbon 0]

I'm pretty happy with direction I'm going in with mine to be honest , after speaking to fuzz on here for an hour the other week about mine going turbo I'd given it about another couple of days before I'd chose not to just because of the reliability and the fuel costs of using it for fun

 

I'd already decided against super charging as it's just something most seem to say is a waste of time , and money

 

My route is as follows and I think will make a great all rounder without compromising to much of to much if that makes sense

 

So I'm going schrick manny with cams six branch and de cat bmc and it all mapped together

Then going to use a 3.68 final drive and lightend flywheel and new clutch and short shifter

 

All that along with new eibach roll bars ,312 brakes and a few other bits thrown in for good measure should make a sweet fast road car without having to turbo or supercharge

 

That's just my plans but with sharing as it's an option for another route

[sexybourbon 0]

I'm pretty happy with direction I'm going in with mine to be honest , after speaking to fuzz on here for an hour the other week about mine going turbo I'd given it about another couple of days before I'd chose not to just because of the reliability and the fuel costs of using it for fun

 

I'd already decided against super charging as it's just something most seem to say is a waste of time , and money

 

My route is as follows and I think will make a great all rounder without compromising to much of to much if that makes sense

 

So I'm going schrick manny with cams six branch and de cat bmc and it all mapped together

Then going to use a 3.68 final drive and lightend flywheel and new clutch and short shifter

 

All that along with new eibach roll bars ,312 brakes and a few other bits thrown in for good measure should make a sweet fast road car without having to turbo or supercharge

 

That's just my plans but with sharing as it's an option for another route

[Hofmiester 10]

Similar plan to me mate, I've got a Shrick VGI which and also a de-cat and a 3.68 final drive ready to go on so that should make for better usage of the power band it already has.

[Jamie 1]

Hahaha this supercharger has been keeping me awake at night! I was seriously thinking about jibbing Worthersee and chucking the money at your charger Ron. Looks like I may have been saved an expensive disappointment :) Also been thinking long and hard about turbos but I swore after I built an insanely quick but absolutely unreliable beetle my days of heavily tuned cars are over - I just can't be arsed spending every weekend fixing what used to be a very reliable car. My plans are pretty much the same as yours and Redborbets now - cams, six branch and ARBs (already have the CDA and VSR).

 

Plus I've always hankered after an R33 Skyline so if I do get to the point where I fancy a big turbo I'll spend the money on one of them rather than mod my Corrado...

[Hofmiester 10]

Yeah, I'm done with trying to make old cars drive like new cars, just need to enjoy it for what it is.

[clumpy1 11]

Yeah, I'm done with trying to make old cars drive like new cars, just need to enjoy it for what it is.

If you sell this now Ron I'm not really sure what I'll do but I'll make you pay :wave:

[daniboy1_2_3 0]

Im curious to know how many of the people that have modified their corrado s by fitting big power turbos etc have spent the same time and money uprating their chassis and brakes and getting them all working spot on. It seems that no where near as much time goes into fine tuning suspension settings, corner weighting, gearing etc in compasrison to chasing big numbers. Im not saying noone has done this by any means but there is a large bias towards bhp figures as opposed to setting up everything else properly.

You will never change the fact that its an old chassis and I dont pretend to be an expert in any of these fields but id imagine if the same amount of time and money was invested in handling, braking and gearing there would be much more driving pleasure to be had and a lot less breakdowns.

If your going to throw a load of power at a gearbox that isnt up to the job its going to leave you pretty disappointed. Just like if your trying to get round corners fast with the suspension and geometry not right. Also how many people have invested in a proper diff with these big power cars? surely that must transform the car somewhat?

Just my thoughts after reading through the thread.

Edited March 28, 2014 by daniboy1_2_3

[fla 9]

you should have seen Kevin bacon's ex-car. This was tuned in almost all areas. Superb machine, shame the new owner doesn't seem to be on the forum now.

[Hofmiester 10]

Well I have a £1000+ worth of suspension, bigger brakes with all steed braided lines and performance pads, poly bushed and vibratechnics mounts, wider wheels and suspension geometry set up............not sure what more I could have done?

 

It's not about handling, nor am I saying that the charger is crap. If you want 50-60 more bhp and you don't mind that power all being up top (ie you rev the balls off it all the time) then it does what it should.

 

The key issue is that the chassis and engine compliment each other nicely as a standard package. It is a four seat coupe with reasonable comfort, power and handling. By pushing up the handling with aftermarket suspension....we reduce comfort etc

 

Every upgrade is not a true upgrade but more a trade off. Better handling comes at a cost of ride quality. More power come at a cost of reliability and often, day to day drivability. You get the picture, basically the standard corrado is a good balance.

 

The best corrado I owned has a VWM VSR, Koni yellows on standard springs and a AmD remap (back who they were good)

 

Im curious to know how many of the people that have modified their corrado s by fitting big power turbos etc have spent the same time and money uprating their chassis and brakes and getting them all working spot on. It seems that no where near as much time goes into fine tuning suspension settings, corner weighting, gearing etc in compasrison to chasing big numbers. Im not saying noone has done this by any means but there is a large bias towards bhp figures as opposed to setting up everything else properly.

You will never change the fact that its an old chassis and I dont pretend to be an expert in any of these fields but id imagine if the same amount of time and money was invested in handling, braking and gearing there would be much more driving pleasure to be had and a lot less breakdowns.

If your going to throw a load of power at a gearbox that isnt up to the job its going to leave you pretty disappointed. Just like if your trying to get round corners fast with the suspension and geometry not right. Also how many people have invested in a proper diff with these big power cars? surely that must transform the car somewhat?

Just my thoughts after reading through the thread.

[loepan 11]

I think they have all got there, as kev had mentioned if something breaks you've not uprated the parts accordingly and there is no way people run turbos on stock brakes etc

a lot of the time I would suspect suspension and braking systems are on the list of things to do first before considering bhp and then adjusted accordingly

 

I must apologise to ron if it was my original post that's turned this off topic and into a aspirated vs supercharger vs turbo thread

that was not my intention

 

im sure a lot of us banging on about not going turbo having just sat in one of these lads motors would struggle to get out not thinking....damn I need turbo in my life haha

[Jim 2]

A turbo is fantastic on the Corrado - the problem is just the price relative to the value of the car. I can live with bills of up to several thousand pounds I guess but once you're into £6000+ plus any upgrades to the chassis brakes, etc (which would easily stick another £1000-£2000) you've got to be SERIOUSLY committed to and besotted by the Corrado. I couldn't do it - I would definitely buy something else for that kind of money that has the power "out of the box". Yes it may be more common on the roads, but honestly I couldn't care - honestly I do love a Q car (and I'm sure a 400BHP Corrado would show a lot of fast cars a clean pair of heels), but not enough to spend that much money on it. There's an element of wanting to be individual and to not follow the crowd (I'm sure why some of us still drive a Corrado), but then how much do you want to spend being an individual. Sometimes it's nice to just say "**** it" and just buy something more generic. An M3 or an RS4 is still going to be pretty special, and uncommon, and still generally get some respect from petrol heads.

[daniboy1_2_3 0]

Im not having a go here but just spending money on something doesnt instantly change it into what you want as im sure you know. Its a process of evolution over time, trial and error. An expensive one in terms of time and money. After seing your car at a local meet i can understand why you want to return it to a more standard condition as its a very nice example.

Yes you trade things off for one another noone in there right mind would build a high power corrado for comfort. I dont agree with all upgrades being compromises though, a well thought out braking system just works better, just like corner weighting and adjusting stiffness between front and rear would improve the balance of the car. Playing around with gear ratios can improve how a car behaves without having any adverse effects if you know what your doing.. A well built engine, using uprated internals and mapped properly with an aftermarket system that can cater for all loads and fuel demands hot and cold set up by a professional isnt a compromise either but this often isnt the case. Internals arent strengthened or checked properly, the cooling system is left standard even though there is a vast amount more heat to deal with and gearboxes are left unchecked and ran with standard diffs. In my mind to do all this properly the car would need to be built from scratch allowing all the sound proofing and heat insulation to be done, wiring looms properly protected and everything stripped and rebuilt where necessary.

I think the bottom line is it costs a fortune to get all this right and there is a limit on whats manageable in a FWD chassis like the corrado. Who wants to spend all their time doing this when as has been mentioned you can buy something off the shelf. Its a massive commitement and hugely frustrating when your attempts dont yield the results you were looking for.

Edited March 28, 2014 by daniboy1_2_3

[Hofmiester 10]

Sold the RH cups earlier this week. Back on the BBS until my next choice of rims arrive :)