Dodgy steering - A cure

[Jim Bowen 1]

been looking around car at weekend, i really think i'm going to take it to stealth now as i'm sick of it, been done by a ford focus due to my handling then couldn't lose a shitty escort :lol: its just scary to drive, i know i've not had camber settings done yet so that could explain a lot.

 

but part of me is certain that i'll get that done and still not be happy.

 

lastest questions:

 

Is it possible that i've put my rear springs on upside down? would this make a difference?

 

Would a dodgy power steering pump/belt affect things? i notice when not moving, if you turn steering wheel slighty each way, say 15 degrees then rock it, it feels bizarre, like its fighting back, and i notice a very slight hiss

[davidwort 0]

...local garage couldn't do camber...

 

:roll: all they need is a 2 quid spirit level and a spanner

 

check it yourself, you just need a flat surface (side to side) to park the car on, a spirit level with a bubble to check uprights (1m builders one is ideal, or a short one and a straight 1m length of wood) and if you want to be precise a kids school protractor.

 

stick a couple of identical length 3 or 4 cm bolts on the side of the spirit level spaced apart so they can touch either side of the wheel rim, as the tyre bulges at the bottom, so you don't want to measure across that.

 

with the wheels straight ahead, ideally the top of the wheel should just sit in from the bottom (negative camber), the edge of the bubble just up too or just over the line should be about right, but you can always draw a straight line on a wall and another with the bubble in the measured position off the car and measure the lines with your protractor. Last time I looked you could get a protractor and spirit level from Tescos for under 2 quid to do this :)

 

As long as they weren't masssively out when the rest of the alignment was done, adjusting the bottom suspension leg bolts to correct the camber won't affect anything else.

You should be able to see bad camber from jsut looking down the sides of the car, several degrees will be visible as a definite lean in or out of the front wheels.

[Jim Bowen 1]

we tried our best to get camber near right when fitting stuff, but knew it wasn't, took it to garage and they said it looked ok, tbh i doubt they even checked.

 

i'm going to get someone to set it up properly and check out the PAS and ask if they can detect anything wrong with the rack/column.

 

but if the camber, different springs and different top mounts doesn't sort it out, then it has to be rack/column, which isn't cheap to do :(

[Jim Bowen 1]

i just checked out the camber with the spirit level and found that all the wheels have negative camber, the fronts more so than the rears.

 

the fronts, the bubble was about a bubbles length past the line, so quite a lot, and the rears the bubble was past the line by a little bit. :lol:

 

not very technical but i can see now that i have quite a bit of negative camber, will i need to buy a camber adjustment kit to allow a garage to get the correct settings, will they know the settings?

[zak 0]

camber is adjusted by loosening the two bolts at the bottom of the susension strut and adjusting the struts relative position to the hub. most places should have the factory specs if not they are posted on here somewhere.

[chazrad 0]

i just checked out the camber with the spirit level and found that all the wheels have negative camber, the fronts more so than the rears.

 

the fronts, the bubble was about a bubbles length past the line, so quite a lot, and the rears the bubble was past the line by a little bit. :lol:

 

not very technical but i can see now that i have quite a bit of negative camber, will i need to buy a camber adjustment kit to allow a garage to get the correct settings, will they know the settings?

 

I really think you should just take it to a reputable tyre/suspension fitter. Modern laser alignment kits are amazingly accurate, far more so than a spirit level. If its top kit they are using, the computer database will have all the factory suspension settings in the memory anyway, so you won't need to dig them out from anywhere. You should also be handed a printout of before any adjustment and afterwards, which you can then keep with your service history. Remember that the rears cannot be adjusted for toe, so its only the fronts you are really interested in. And finally, often having the alignment checked doesn't cost you anything. Its only when they have to make any adjustments that they charge you. So if your alignment is perfect (I doubt it, given you've had it all apart), it won't cost you anything.

 

I had mine done recently after the coilovers were fitted. There is no doubt that for the £50 or so quid it'll cost you to get it completely sorted, you will be able to rest assured that any further problem is not as a result of poor alignment. The fact is that until you have had it aligned properly then driven it, you will not be able to tell if something else is at fault.

 

HTH

[Jim Bowen 1]

i'm going to check out this local place and see if they have all the proper equipment, if not how do you find the specialists in my area?

 

stealth is 100miles away

[dr_mat 0]

stealth is 100miles away

 

Many people drive further than 100 miles to go to Stealth! ;)

 

Stealth have the "official" wheel alignment rig, but they charge £80 + VAT for a run and adjust on it. Plus your £40 in petrol to get there and back it's not peanuts any more, particularly "just" for a wheel alignment.

 

It is, however, good at the job..

[Jim Bowen 1]

yeah thats the bit putting me off, petrol costs, having to hang around while they work on it.

 

may as well take a chance with someone local, am sure dinkus said these guys race mk2 golfs?

[pete_griff 0]

Just to let anyone in the Herefordshire area know that Hereford tyres have all the required up-to-date equipment for 4 wheel alignment and they are pretty damn good.

 

I have a friend with a g60 who had it tracked after i fitted some new lower arms/balljoints and track rod ends for him and it was terrible - even progressively getting worse a couple of days later :?

 

He took it to Hereford tyres a few days later to get it sorted properly and the transformation was unbelievable.

 

They are nice lads there and loved his 'rado, so if you live in the area i can recommend them :thumb right:

[cata 0]

Cheers for the helpful post Kev! Besides the initial point of the thread, I never knew that the Bilstein/Febi stuff was lower quality.

It's all the little tips that save the pennies.

[mattosmond 0]

got the bj's done on my mk3 golf gti by alan from autechnic in totton for £60 all in.... and guess what, the car felt like new.... now it steers rather than wallows from side to side...

[gixxer 0]

Anyone know of a decent reputable place to get wheel alignment done in Wrexham/N. Wales area? About to do the BJs etc & want it setup properly once everythings fitted.

[Jim Bowen 1]

Right chaps, i've now changed everything mentioned before and had tracking and camber done, i even threw away perfectly good tyres and got new ones in case it was that, but my car still doesn't seem right to me

 

i find that when parked and have engine running, if you turn steering wheel until you start feeling resistance of wheels, then kinda wobble back and forth very gentle, the steering wheel feels very very odd???? as if it fighting back then going spongy?? there is also a very slight whining noise (PAS)

 

i think this is the feeling that leds to a strange sensation in some corners and driving over roads with funny cambers/ruts etc

 

all thats left to do is rack and column which are kinda a last resort. Could this feeling be anything to do with the PAS system, could the pump wear and cause it?

[davidwort 0]

...i find that when parked and have engine running, if you turn steering wheel until you start feeling resistance of wheels, then kinda wobble back and forth very gentle, the steering wheel feels very very odd???? as if it fighting back then going spongy?? there is also a very slight whining noise (PAS)

 

you have to use some force to move the steering wheel before the valves in the rack open and it assists you, the whine is simply the pump and pressure working rather than idling, It sounds to me like there might be a problem starting with the valving in your rack, not uncommon when they get on a bit, can't remember, have you changed the fluid?, sometimes a change or two can help, but it's a bit like synthetic oil in a gearbox with worn synchros, it may help, but not fix the underlying mechanical problem, so no promises.

[Jim Bowen 1]

is changing the fluid a hard job, am sure a garage recommended it get done, this was before i changed everything else :lol:

 

also when i start the car it makes a weird mechanical squeeze, everyone who hears it says it sounds like the starter motor overrunning? but i don't believe them, would that be something to do with PAS?

[Jim Bowen 1]

infact has anyone got much info i can read about the PAS system?

[Jim Bowen 1]

after my un-nerving drive home i'm really keen to get rid of this gremlin, am half tempted to just take car somewhere now and get new column and rack fitted, and everything else checked out. started to not care about the costs, its cost about £1400 so far trying to remedy this :(

 

its crappy to drive imo, not what i was hoping for

 

in my mind i don't see how the rack wears?? i have funny steering, i really don't know how to say what i'm on about, my last car was like it aswell (almost the same mileage on them, so could be same thing), am sure it can't be my driving, my old man ignores me now as i'm ALWAYS moaning about funny steering (this car and last one). it when you on a road with cambers that you notice it, or going round a bend and downhill at same time, steering just goes light, hit a little bump and the wheels seem to swerve

 

what is it that wears in the rack, i'm deffo thinking its to do with PAS

[davidwort 0]

I've never actually cut one to bits, but I'd imagine that as the rack and pinion stay in the straight ahead position 99% of the time it's that part of the rack teeth that wear over the years, and a short distance either side, so you would get play in the ahead position first. Wear in the column bearings, height adjuster and UJ to the rack all add up, bit like the margins of error in the stages of an experiment multiplying with each other to make the final results meaningless!

The problem with recon racks is that they use parts that are 'within tolerance' and not new, When Jay Renshaw used a brand new SEAT Ibiza rack on his V6 corrado that's what finally sorted the steering.

As far as changing the fluid goes it's pretty much as simple as removing the (supply from reservoir) hose from the pump and letting it all drain out, re-connect and fill the reservoir, you're supposed to turn the pump by hand to prime it, but in my experience the fluid makes it's way through on it's own and there was no need to prime.

Run the car and turn from lock to lock until the steering quietens down (all air bubbles out of system) and fill back up to the fill level on the reservoir.

If you've never changed the stuff I'd run it for a few days then repeat the process with another fresh batch of fluid. The system uses Citroen type green LHM hydraulic fluid, I bought febi stuff from GSF (2L for a complete change of fluid) which was pretty cheap.

But again, new fluid can only be good, but won't fix play in a badly worn rack.

[Jim Bowen 1]

from driving car a bit more,

 

i've found that it doesn't seem like "play" in the steering, but the steering feels too light and very sensitive

 

it may be the car is meant to be like that, but its very unsettling not being able to feel the wheels under stress/load as you turn if you understand what i mean? am sure its not how it should be.

 

am getting touch with a local chap who has a 1996 storm with similar milage, maybe getting him to drive mine etc, and get his opinon

[dr_mat 0]

Try replacing the PAS pump. It has a variable output pressure feature which may well be screwed at this age. Also remember that even a slightly imbalanced tyre is going to make the steering feel a bit light at speed and so on ..

[Jim Bowen 1]

are they expensive? or a hard job?

 

i'd still like to read up on the PAS system.

 

spoke to stealth and they say the best thing to do is take it to them, so i guess at some point i will, and that if i find PAS too light they can change the bottom pulley.

 

starting to find something sounds a bit knocky/juddery over lots of small bumps/holes. Got me thinking would the driveshafts have any effect on the wheels?

[dr_mat 0]

are they expensive? or a hard job?

 

Not hard, or particularly expensive, by all accounts.

 

spoke to stealth and they say the best thing to do is take it to them, so i guess at some point i will, and that if i find PAS too light they can change the bottom pulley.

 

My steering had a variance in it's weight. Sometimes heavy, sometimes light, and the state would change from one to the other after a bit of revs.. That's why I think it's the PAS pump. It's never bad enough to annoy me though.

 

starting to find something sounds a bit knocky/juddery over lots of small bumps/holes. Got me thinking would the driveshafts have any effect on the wheels?

 

ARB drop links probably need changing too, if they've not been done. Mine were done recently (along with new bottom BJs that also had play in them) and it feels like a new car.. (well at least it's killed off all the suspension clunks).

[Jim Bowen 1]

i did have them done a while ago, but was by a garage and not sure how good the parts were, so could be buggered i spose, its a noise i've heard in other peoples cars before and has only just started on mine, for the 1st bit of my journey, seems to go away

[Lufbramatt 0]

re. the ARB links- had to replace an ARB drop link on mine the other day as it snapped when i tried undoing it to take the wishbones off. Didnt want a Febi one after hearing all the storie on here about them being crap, but the VW one i got was £25 :shock:

 

Also its been superceeded by a slightly different part with a different bushing, which is much larger and is designed to fit 21mm roll bars. On my passat it has a 24mm roll bar so had to dremel out a bit of material from inside the bushing. When i got it i wasnt convinced it was the right bit, but the guy checked on ETKA and it all checked out, and it had a note on the entry saying "workshop modification may be needed" or something. Bit rubbish on a £25 part lol :(