Thoughts on Porsche 944's?

[Portent 0]

I recently asked opinions on BMW E46's and mk1 TT's as another fun weekend car but neither of them really felt "right" or special enough so I'm still looking around. I'm not quite sure what I'm looking for in a car but I seem to keep coming back to 2+2 coupe's and feeling an urge to try something new. Recently I've been looking at 944 S2's and wondered if anyone here had experience of them. I've looked into them quite a lot so am aware of their weak points (sill rust, lower front wing rust, fuel line corrosion, cambelts every 4 years, cam chains, etc). They seem very similar in character to the Corrado but just a touch more special due to their heritage.

 

I did look at them 3 years ago but decided against it due to the maintenance cost and bought the Corrado instead. But their value seems to be creeping up now and the maintenance would (possibly) be offset a little by appreciation (never going to rise dramatically like some 911 but appear to have some modest increases in those 3 years).

 

I test drove a white one this week and while it was a little overpriced for the fairly high mileage, it was a very nice example with a good history. Not perfect, but certainly very nice. I normally wouldn't have looked at it because of the price and the colour (it's white - I normally don't like white cars) but honestly it looked fantastic in the flesh and was literally 4 miles from my house. It was very striking (pic below that the owner emailed me from a trip he took). I also have another test drive of a grey one provisionally lined up (owned by someone's work colleague on here it seems). And the insurance (classic policy, 5k miles) is a paltry £213 which genuinely surprised me.

 

Are they financial suicide? They seem to be a little more expensive to maintain than a 911 but don't have the cult following of that car. Is maintenance really out-of-control expensive? I assume DIY servicing is not feasible or certainly not desirable for resale.

 

Is there likely to be potential for further price rises as the 968 Clubsport may drag prices of 968's and by association the 944's upwards? Or will they forever be in the shadow of the 911's? I suspect that may be the case apart from the Turbo's (which are even more expensive to maintain).

 

What are they like to live with as a weekend and occasional track car? I gather they really come alive on the track. There's not much room in the back but the front is a nice place to be (in a German 90's sombre way). The standard suspension seemed very good indeed.

 

Will the lift-off roof or strange right-handed handbrake drive me nuts after a few days?

 

Are there any colours to avoid (ie how is white viewed)?

 

Considering a 911 can be had for £8.5k then is a £5k 944 a poor decision?

 

I'd probably have to SORN the Corrado for a while if I did get one. I must admit that the Corrado really didn't feel much worse after driving the 944. I'd say the VR6 is the better engine than the 3.0 4 cylinder in the S2. The Corrado felt more spacious as well as nimble and easier to drive and the recaros felt more supportive than the standard 944 leather seats. It's a credit to the Corrado that I really enjoyed the drive home.

 

So ladies and gentlemen, does anyone have any real world experience of them?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]78317[/ATTACH]

[Chrisvw419 0]

I actually had a late red 944 S2 about 5 years ago.

 

It handled exceptionally well and was a lovely drivers car it was a real head turner and the appreciation of the car I got was unreal.

 

As with most sports cars with heritage the initial buying cost isn't the problem, mine cost £2700 and was in mint condition and well maintained by the previous owner, fsh, no expense spared etc. The maintenance side of things was a the main issue. Although reasonably practical to work on, I felt it deserved to be maintained to the same standard as the previous owner. Plenty of highly recommended independent places charge good prices however parts are expensive and they are unfortunately difficult to avoid paying.

 

Driving it put a smile on my face every time and I found myself using it more often than the weekends because I couldn't walk past it on the driveway. The only thing to note is that although brilliant fun on the roads when dry, they can be a right handful in the wet/very slightly damp. I am obviously far happier to be sat in the corrado when the roads are damp.

 

After sadly writing mine off, I was glad to have owned it but went to the Corrado as I felt it was slightly more refined and versatile than the 944.

 

I too have noticed the prices creep up since and often wonder what mine would have been worth now, at a guess the price of mine probably would have doubled but I would have easily spent that rise and some on maintaining and keeping it on the road. The insurance was reasonable and tax also fair, it was just the requirement of those specialist garage charges that would have eventually taken their toll

 

In summary;

 

> Nice drive (in dry) although wouldn't say better than the Corrado.

> High maintenance fees easily compete with the higher pedigree 911 and more expensive than the Corrado.

> Less refined and versatile than the Corrado.

> I may get stick for this, but in my opinion the Corrado is my preferred option.

[Portent 0]

Thanks.

 

Without knowing yours, but from the "mint" description it would probably be worth around £5.5k to £6k now. Which demonstrates that prices have gone up. But yes the maintenance costs would have more than eaten that profit. The Corrado is definitely the better buy due to all round usability and relatively cheap running costs. But in good condition I think they look fantastic and certainly retro.

 

It's just occurred to me that I really don't think I've seen one on the road for years.

[seanl82 23]

I've never owned one but had the opportunity to drive a Red 944 with not so contrasting brown cloth interior in 2.5litre S flavour. To say I was underwhelmed is an overstatement, although I had to make all the right noises to the friend that owned it at the time! To me now, the 944 cries badge snob. It was marketed as the affordable Porsche for the masses, and as such everything seemed to be pretty limp. I may have been expecting more with it being a Porsche, but I just feel there are far better cars around, even of the same vintage for less money. That coupled with horrendous parts and servicing costs will ensure I never contemplate owning one. Just my opinion mate.

[Jim 1]

Off to see one on Friday are we? :) I've never had a good look around it but from what I've seen of it in the car park, Dave's 944 S2 is very tidy. He only ever seems to bring it out when the weather is very nice (so I've only seen it here like 5-6 times in a couple of years) and he does seem to look after it.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do - I can sympathise with your dilemma / thought processes and have to say that, for me, the only Porsche I'd really want is a 911 or maybe something more modern like a Boxster / Cayman, and that the older models like the 924/944/928 don't really do it for me. But at the end of the day they all have the badge, and therefore the history and the prestige! And if you get bored of it after a year, it's pretty unlikely you're going to make any kind of loss on it if you sell it on and move on to something else, so don't think you can really lose out.

[Tempest 0]

924/944/928

 

The 928 stands out in that list, as Porsche's own development (whereas the 924 started as an outsource project by VW, which when Porsche had made it their own resulted in the 944 and finally the 968 ), and only car that Porsche had contemplated to replace the 911, which never happened.

 

Not had the chance of driving any 944s myself yet, but the engine, effectively half a 5-liter V8 from the 928, should be almost bomb-proof, if looked after (regular oil and coolant changes). They all share the same transaxle principle, making them easier to handle in corners compared to the tail-happy 911s, the main difference being that the diff is located in front of the gearbox on the 4-cylinder cars.

 

Have a look on the TIPEC website for more opinions and possibly vehicles to test-drive; TIPEC started as a primarily 924-driven club and then gradually absorbed all the other Porsche models.

 

Tempest

[delfinis38 1]

I was tempted with 928 this week after seeing classic car resue. Anyone else see it. I will be wanting a fiat 500 next week after next weeks prog.

[Portent 0]

Thanks all. Yes Jim I've provisionally agreed to view that car :) He does seem to like it and was very honest in his advert. I need to confirm today if I can make it but I think I should be ok for it and hope to confirm to him shortly. Looking at the history of the car he certainly cares about it although innevitibly there are a number of items that need some attention eventually. At that price point I suspect all cars would. The white one I viewed was more money but didn't appear to need so much work. The maintenance costs on these things seems to be higher than some 911's which is slightly off-putting and the reason they often get sold just prior to a cambelt change. 911's can be had now for £8k but they are past my "toy" budget and I'd probably only get a poor example. I don't think I'd want a Boxter but I can't quite put my finger on why. A friend had one and it was a lovely car but not one I've ever really been drawn to it.

 

Tempest, yes thanks, TIPEC is where I spotted the grey car. Like buying a Corrado my preference is to buy from an enthusiast and certainly from a private seller rather than a dealer. It seems a fairly quiet forum compared to here though. The NA engines do seem to be bomb proof but expensive to fix if you're unlucky. I love your 928 but I'd seriously worry every time I heard an odd noise as they seem even "worse" that 944's :)

 

Sean, yes the 2.5's are quite slow even in S guise. The general approach seems to be either buy at a low price point and budget for very very expensive work, or buy at the expensive price point and budget for only reasonably expensive work. Either way the cost seems to end up the same and it appears to be high which is a concern I agree. For me it's not the badge. If it were just the badge then I'd just buy a cheap £3k Boxter and be prepared to run it with minimum maintenance. But I genuinely love the lines of the 944, especially the nose and the sweeping rear arch. It feels solid inside like a good piece of German engineering should. I rarely drive fast so outright speed isn't that important and I adore older cars from the 80's and 90's era.

[maff 10]

The 968 club sport was a better car than the 944 wasn't it? and what about the 924 with the audi engine! I've got the evo mag somewhere with the Corrado vr6, porsche 944s2, clio Williams and tvrs3 buyers guide and I think the 944 won.

 

I'd be spending a bit more and going 911 if it was me:-)

[Portent 0]

Yes the 968 was better (it was really an S3 that Porsche re-designated when they realised they made so many changes). The clubsport actually cost a lot less than a regular 968 at the time but nowadays their price is rising fast and is very far from my budget. Yes a 911 would be nice but again it's out of my budget apart from the ropey ones.

[Tempest 0]

I love your 928 but I'd seriously worry every time I heard an odd noise as they seem even "worse" that 944's

 

That's a commonly held misconception, because when I did a fairly large(ish) job on my Shark back in 2012 I was pleasantly surprised by prices for spare parts coming from a VW background, and expecting the worst.

 

Although I haven't watched the Classic Car Rescue episode on the 928 yet, it has been heavily discussed on the 928-mailing list I am on, and some interesting things emerged about how this type of TV programme is made, given that the production team have approached various folk that deal with 928s in daily life to get the car, get it valued, etc. These guys have let on a bit of the what happened off-screen. Taking it all in, you realise soon that it's all in the interest of general TV entertainment. The actual 928 wasn't that bad to start with, but did have rotten sills! The chap they bought it from had no plans for it other than to break it or turn into a trackday tool, never to bring back on the roads again.

 

The 928 guru in the UK, Paul Anderson, was asked to value the car at a rediculuous price once all the resto work had been done, but refused to co-operate once he found out the sills were still rotten, and said he'd not value the car at much more than what the production team had bought it for. Paul said his reputation would be on the line if he did co-operate, so the production team went elsewhere.

 

That's TV entertainment, which needs to appeal to many more than just a bunch of car enthusiasts, let alone an even smaller bunch of 928-fans.

 

Anyway, sorry for high-jacking, but worthwhile remembering when you next time watch similar TV programmes ;)

 

It seems a fairly quiet forum compared to here though

 

They all have porper jobs, where they don't have time to post :lol: That or it's an older generation that haven't necessarily grown up with forums ;)

 

Tempest

[Portent 0]

At the risk of derailing my own thread... the 928 has a gorgeous interior. I think it is a dead cert for being a true classic in the future. I wish I was brave enough to consider one:

 

http://www.e-carpictures.com/1993-porsche-928-gts-pictures/

 

Just look at the rear seats in that!

[Dox 22]

At the risk of derailing my own thread... the 928 has a gorgeous interior. I think it is a dead cert for being a true classic in the future. I wish I was brave enough to consider one:

 

http://www.e-carpictures.com/1993-porsche-928-gts-pictures/

 

Just look at the rear seats in that!

 

The exhaust note is special too, there's a white F plate auto with stainless exhausts near me and it sounds amazing even at low speeds

[Tempest 0]

The exhaust note is special too, there's a white F plate auto with stainless exhausts near me and it sounds amazing even at low speeds

 

Most likely had a RMB (rear muffler bypass), common mod amongst the 928 crowds. Quite happy myself with the standard set-up.

 

Just look at the rear seats in that!

 

Has the "cheap" front seats, only 2 of the 3 available 4-way rocker switches on the side of the driver seat and passenger seat, no memory seat on passenger side, all of which the PO of mine included at great extra cost. 928 had huge options lists, with even huger associated costs, original owner of mine went for a lot of them, thanks! :)

 

But that GTS is a very nice example indeed :)

 

Tempest

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I've never owned one but had the opportunity to drive a Red 944 with not so contrasting brown cloth interior in 2.5litre S flavour. To say I was underwhelmed is an overstatement, although I had to make all the right noises to the friend that owned it at the time! To me now, the 944 cries badge snob. It was marketed as the affordable Porsche for the masses, and as such everything seemed to be pretty limp. I may have been expecting more with it being a Porsche, but I just feel there are far better cars around, even of the same vintage for less money. That coupled with horrendous parts and servicing costs will ensure I never contemplate owning one. Just my opinion mate.

 

I've never been taken by the 4 pot Porkers but tbh, I felt pretty much the same way after driving a 993.

 

I think the problem with coveted cars is 95% of us aren't fortunate enough to own (let alone drive) them from new, so by the time we can finally afford to buy one, they feel incredibly dated!

 

The rate at which cars improve is incredible now and even a humble 2005 MK5 GTI can make an old 993 feel incredibly numb and fat hipped.

[Dox 22]

Most likely had a RMB (rear muffler bypass), common mod amongst the 928 crowds. Quite happy myself with the standard set-up.

 

 

 

 

Tempest

 

I can't think of any 4 cylinder cars that make my head turn when they pass by, the mix of V8 rumble and the stainless tinging makes my neck almost snap. The one mentioned is a high day and holiday cherished example and a rare sight out and about

 

I've wanted a 944 since I first saw one in Koblenz as a 16 year old on a school trip in 1983

[Bullfinch 0]

Agree with other comments made about 4 cylinder Porsche's not hitting the mark. I'm lucky enough to run a 911 as a daily and it's the best car I've ever owned. I can't see a 944 having that much, if any, extra wow factor over your Corrado VR6 which is a great looking example when I saw it at Gaydon recently.

[Roger Chatfield 0]

Sure I've read somewhere that the design of the Corrado was originally meant to be the successor to the 944, I suppose that's why folk who like Corrado's also like the lines of the porker, they do have similar lines.

 

Rog.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Roger Chatfield

[jamiehamy 0]

I hd an S2 a good few years ago, cobalt blue with blue interior. I loved it, it was such a superb car to drive. Driving position was great, very comfortable on long journies, hanling was sublime, and very forgiving. The handbrake you get used to very quickly, the roof is good but can't drive with it off when raining, as I found out. Before I got my current Corrado, it was literally down to nother 944 or the Corrado. The Corrado won because a) I could afford to and was able to maintain it and b) it had a 6 cylinder. Latterly, I realised that it would have been a struggle to onvert a 944 to LPG(!) and that it's good having 2 very usable seats in the back.

 

Superb machines, and compared to a 911 of similar era that I've driven, there's no comparisn - as an overall drivers car, the 944 won for me come rain, sun or snow.

 

If that doesn't do it, the trip reset button will :)

[Portent 0]

Well I test drove another today and while it was not in as good condition as the first it is a lot cheaper and still drove very nicely indeed. It has also had a lot of engine work on it recently which is a big plus. I have some thinking to do over the weekend before making any decision.

 

Thanks for the thoughts everyone and thanks for the comments Bullfinch. I agree it's no 911 but I really like them.

 

I think I feel so at home with them precisely because they they are so similar in many ways to the Corrado.

 

Trip reset button?

 

Yes Roger i've heard that too. The 924 was a joint Porsche/Audi venture and the 944 was the successor. Porsche decided to go their own direction and evolve the 944 and VAG then had to develop their own premium coupe and the Corrado was likely that machine.

[Goldie 2]

At the risk of derailing my own thread... the 928 has a gorgeous interior. I think it is a dead cert for being a true classic in the future. I wish I was brave enough to consider one:

 

http://www.e-carpictures.com/1993-porsche-928-gts-pictures/

 

Just look at the rear seats in that!

 

Id have to agree, the interior is fabulous.. I like the car although the rear windows just look a bit awkward..

[VR6 Lee 0]

Nice cars

[j_s14a 0]

I've often thought about getting a 944 or a 968, but IMO the engines are very dull. Everything else about them is great, but the engine is the heart and soul of any great car, and for me it just disappoints with these.

 

I read an article once on a 944 with a 5 cylinder turbo Audi ABY engine, now that would be something special!

[Tempest 0]

Id have to agree, the interior is fabulous.. I like the car although the rear windows just look a bit awkward..

 

Just a bit of anorak knowledge:

 

Dawson Sellars and Hans Bruns designed that 928-interior, and yes, Dawson Sellars is British. Interesting to read how he came to Porsche: Finished at the Royal College of Arts in London mid 60s, already owned a 365, found a job at Ford in Essex, was told to park his 365 at the rear of the factory out of sight, didn't get on at Ford, and fired his CV (in English, didn't speak a word of German) to Stuttgart, got the interview, and was taken on! Wouldn't happen these days any more.

 

Rear windows give excellent view. Try finding that on modern cars, where you're better off driving blind-folded.

 

Tempest