Replacement Fuel Pump - VR6, 2015 and onwards

[ABV-VR6 12]

On 1/30/2023 at 8:44 AM, twinbeltg60 said:

Update, as I would have had to remove my "NOS", from about 2006 VDO Pump I mentioned I installed 18+ months ago to replace the fuel hoses (which I did change at the time , but stupid me, used the wrong hose, needs to be Submersible type, which I have now got Cohline 2190), it was just as well I did.

The couple of small cracks noticed before install had spread like cancer, and given time probably the whole top cap would have broken apart, only the swirlpot top, where the return nozzle  is affected, all the rest is fine, so its probably a different crappy plastic.

See attached pictures, to me this evidence that the VOO NOS items, are probably not worth the risk, as even if the cracks are not there to start with, they could start sometime later.

The Pump itself is ok, I have taken the unit apart completely to clean the filters, I obviously need to remove the old fuel (car has not been driven in 10+ years, has been started many times, but always on a low tank, and the fuel is now pretty horrible.!

I may buy the JP Pump, and see if i can swap my VDO Pump into the JP casing, I would then have a spare pump.

That's insane! Thanks for sharing your story and looking into it. I agree with you, plastic is aging badly over the years exposed to air. Cheers 

[ABV-VR6 12]

All of those discussions and i still feel like I'm at square one! I thought I would splurge and get the VDO, now it's a no go... Never been a great fan of JP Group. All the info is confusing as hell... 

[Dox 23]

2 hours ago, _Matt_ said:

Oh I see flow rate and pressure are related. 

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
 

No, you need enough flow to meet the consumption of the engine factoring in any restriction - FPR controls the pressure and in this case is the restriction.

1 uk gallon is 4.5 litres

If at 120 mph (2 miles per minute) the car does 4.5 MPG (I’ve no idea what mpg a Corrado does at this speed, it’s just a convenient number for mental arithmetic) it will need a minimum supply of 2 litres per minute to prevent starvation, so the pump needs to overcome the 4 bar FPR the the ecu is calibrated for (excess returns to the tank) and still deliver over of 2 litres to satisfy the engines needs.

 

 

 

[_Matt_ 32]

Just to update the thread. I bought a VDO and have the same cracking. Awaiting to send it back to autodoc. Could strip it but at £250 I'm not fancying that plus I doubt it is a new part, and likely to have sat around for ages. 

Cressa I think I will try the Lucas - do you have a the part no handy? The link in the thread has broken with age. 

 

[ABV-VR6 12]

That's really unfortunate! Those VDO are just no good anymore, they all cracked... Hopefully the return goes well and you find a replacement! 

[_Matt_ 32]

Cheers ABV, I still haven't sent it back. May well just strip mine and take the pump from the new VDO unit unless I can find a better like for like replacement. I have until December to make the return with autodoc.

[oneohtwo 8]

On 1/9/2023 at 9:51 PM, Cressa said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234630565376?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=yi1ojZncSxy&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=SuQ1hX6ZSQa&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

This was what I fitted last year. Perfect fit. i think it sorted my warm start issue but i also fitted a one way valve at the same time

Would you mind having a look to confirm if this was the one you bought?

Swirlpot, fuel pump fits VW PASSAT 2.8 91 to 96 AAA Lucas 1H0919651Q VOLKSWAGEN | eBay

Your link has expired. It says Lucas so presume it is, but does seem a bit on the cheap side.

It's so hard to tell with all these unknown brands floating about. They could all be manufactured in the same place for all we know, and I suspect Lucas these days is the same, but I guess it it is at least known. 

 

 

[Cressa 44]

It looks the part, but I cant ge 100% sure. Trying to look back at posts on the forum is a bloody nightmare and isn't helping. Can they confirm if it is a 4 bar pump? If so, go for it and good luck

[_Matt_ 32]

It is the right part number listed 1H0919651Q but the description stating 2.8 VR6 makes me want to double check as they can be 3bar and not 4 bar (however the part number listed ending in Q is 4 bar so in theory is ok, perhaps email them to check before purchasing as they don't state 4 bar on the listing).

Here is another link for a pump and it specifically says 4bar which is what you need (same part number). 

https://www.mecatechnic.com/en-GB/4-bar-petrol-pump-for-vw-golf-3-and-vento-vr6-1995_GC46420.htm

[oneohtwo 8]

Thanks both.  I searched for the part number in the Lucas catalogue and it doesn't appear which isn't helpful! I'll ask the question.

Was also looking at ones from Hitachi and ERA. Hitachi you'd think should be pretty good, given the brand, and I believe they make OEM parts. ERA I can't find as much about, other than they have been around a while. Think they probably just rebrand and distribute parts judging by their website.

 

[_Matt_ 32]

You'll likely be fine with the Lucas as the part no is the right one. It's a good brand too. Do you know if your car has a pierburg or vdo pump currently? Mine is an early '94 car and had pierberg so on replacing with a vdo pump i had to buy the vdo sender as well as the pierburg one is different..

https://www.volkswagen-classic-parts.com/catalog/en_uk/part/535919673C?epis=&ct=3&q=535919673C

[oneohtwo 8]

Ah I better double check that. I thought it was only the very early VRs that had the Pierburgs. Mine is a 94 as well.

[fendervg 33]

Pierburg will have a blue fuel level sender on it, with different mounting and loom connections - the VDO one is white and slots into the side of the swirl pot.

So depending on pump, you will need the matching sender unit - as the Pierburg pumps are no longer made, this means buying a sender as well when replacing with a VDO or "VDO style" pump. It is possible to jury rig the old sender on to the new swirl pot, but not ideal - also if it is just the pump that has failed, it's possible to open the swirl pot and just replace the pump unit with one of similar dimensions. Somewhere on the Internet, there is a site that sells a billet mounting that fits inot the OEM rubber pads in the tank bottom and allows you to use a Bosch motorsport pump body with more fuel pressure than you will ever need!

The main thing, as already said, is that you get a 4 bar pump for the 2.9 VR6 (ABV).

[oneohtwo 8]

Managed to check and I've got the Pierburg so mildly annoying as it's an extra £100 quid.  Have gone for the Lucas pump as hadn't got a response about the pressure, so will see when it arrives.

[oneohtwo 8]

The Lucas part has arrived, in an unbranded box with a Lucas sticker on it, so I suspect it's the same part as all the other unbranded sellers. No great surprise there though.  Unfortunately this also means it has no specs on it anywhere to confirm whether it is 4bar or not. I've not been able to identify it anywhere else either, so unsure whether to just go ahead with it or send it back. 

Edit: I've thought on it some more and I think I am going to send it back and get a Vemo version instead. That is listed as 4bar, and although Vemo isn't really a big brand they are at least a global company that do manufacture some parts in Germany and brand their products accordingly. Most parts are probably manufactured in China, but they have a presence out there so perhaps have a bit more input into their supply chain, rather than just slapping a sticker on a box and shipping onwards. 

The part is also listed in their parts catalogue, unlike Lucas, which is a bit more comforting.  The only visible difference I can see from pictures is the Vemo uses Torx screws for the top casing rather than plain crosshead on the Lucas part. That in itself doesn't mean it's better quality, but it is suggestive of a bit more thought into the design and manufacture process, using more specific parts, so potentially it indicates better quality. 

Edited August 31 by oneohtwo

[Cressa 44]

Gutted for you that this is being such a pain. Mine did come in a Lucas box if I remember correctly  and the seller did confirm it being 4 bar. Totally understand you deciding on the Vemo. 

 

[_Matt_ 32]

How about this Bosch unit? £102

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166574535713?_nkw=1H0919651Q&itmmeta=01J73G3N6HX13325DPFX997MB3&hash=item26c89db421:g:bZQAAOSwlN1luS6c&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKmNsErjcCK0FXiGL6G7%2B6R4ts5z%2FTIVDZyVPhD08wCvudSbv1ekLyA8xIddpgZW7bmqnDdv1f8A12wRYj30nXG7nRN8fRMiloTUgrjjqvn8OvATRcetD2KKh%2FrtuVjuL0wthAuwM4%2BXHw08F7I0lPV5pofjNF01H3rE%2F1757jGss8u7TyUn28NAv89ts0z77jj8gUIzJeCihFKZwrSbb5UWGgZSqZOU0gy4XKM17xCfzkbzNs42m0nWdLDIoThsFJpRWLKZdBOWCGsxZt44CW2LwuN5a7gjd8yXTaAoZBrVaw%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6zTjvC4ZA

It is listed with the Corrado VR6 4 bar part number 1H0919651Q and on searching of the Bosch Part number attached 0 986 580 823 does confirm 4 bar for that Bosch part no.

 

Edit to add - found it even cheaper here 

https://www.kmotorshop.com/en/article-detail/view/274323/fuel-pump-0986580823-bosch-1028808-1h0919651h-1hm919051m

[Cressa 44]

Bargain for Bosch, good find 👍

[Dox 23]

14 hours ago, Cressa said:

Bargain for Bosch, good find 👍

Pumps don’t deliver pressure do they?

 

they pump litres per minute?

 

Figures below are for representative purposes only (mental arithmetic)

 

a pump may deliver 5 LPM open ended, 4 LPM @ 1 bar, 3.5 LPM @ 2 bar, 2.5 LPM @ 4 bar.

.

if a VR6 engine does 4.5 MPG (4.5L is one gallon) @ 120 MPH (2 miles per minute) the pump needs to deliver 2 L @ 4 bar or above to fuel the engine?

I spent 21 year working in a dairy with huge pumps, they were always rated at LPM @ a given pressure

a 4 bar pump is meaningless without delivery volume and vice versa?

[oneohtwo 8]

Yeah, I'm not sure what to think here. It is listed in the parts catalogue (7zap) as 4bar. This is for the Pierburg diagram so I guess listing the 4 bar VDO as a replacement:

Perhaps it's a pressure rating for what it can withstand?  Although that seems a bit on the limit. Or is it saying it can deliver the flow rate at that pressure?

Keyo seemed to think the Bosch part is 3bar after calling them up (earlier in the thread). Does seem odd it is listed for that part number and not have the correct specs. I can't find the flow rate either.

 

[Dox 23]

On 9/8/2024 at 10:14 AM, oneohtwo said:

Yeah, I'm not sure what to think here. It is listed in the parts catalogue (7zap) as 4bar. This is for the Pierburg diagram so I guess listing the 4 bar VDO as a replacement:

Perhaps it's a pressure rating for what it can withstand?  Although that seems a bit on the limit. Or is it saying it can deliver the flow rate at that pressure?

Keyo seemed to think the Bosch part is 3bar after calling them up (earlier in the thread). Does seem odd it is listed for that part number and not have the correct specs. I can't find the flow rate either.

 

Withstand- sounds like the point of failure?

 

Deliver X LPM @ 4 bar working pressure (set by FPR on the fuel rail). If fuel returns to the tank the pump is achieving the preset of the FPR? You then need the LPM to achieve whatever the engine demands under load?

 

 

Anyway, the GSF pump I fitted 10/12 years ago after the OE caused issues at low fuel levels when navigating roundabouts (rubber pump mounts were dissolved) has seized causing my non start issues (I have a nice spark at the plugs).

 

On removing the pump anything rubber - pump mounts, pump seals and even the large tank seal is softened to the point of liquorice, even the gauze pre-filter at the end of the pump has collapsed.

I'd recommend anyone thinking of replacing their pump only into their existing swirl-or to inspect it prior, anyone smelling fuel inside the car inspect their main tank / pump seal.

So I too am in the market for a full pump / swirl pot assembly.

Only use E5 fuels in your Corrados to extend the life of your rubber fuel parts.

[Dox 23]

On 9/6/2024 at 12:07 PM, _Matt_ said:

How about this Bosch unit? £102

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166574535713?_nkw=1H0919651Q&itmmeta=01J73G3N6HX13325DPFX997MB3&hash=item26c89db421:g:bZQAAOSwlN1luS6c&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKmNsErjcCK0FXiGL6G7%2B6R4ts5z%2FTIVDZyVPhD08wCvudSbv1ekLyA8xIddpgZW7bmqnDdv1f8A12wRYj30nXG7nRN8fRMiloTUgrjjqvn8OvATRcetD2KKh%2FrtuVjuL0wthAuwM4%2BXHw08F7I0lPV5pofjNF01H3rE%2F1757jGss8u7TyUn28NAv89ts0z77jj8gUIzJeCihFKZwrSbb5UWGgZSqZOU0gy4XKM17xCfzkbzNs42m0nWdLDIoThsFJpRWLKZdBOWCGsxZt44CW2LwuN5a7gjd8yXTaAoZBrVaw%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6zTjvC4ZA

It is listed with the Corrado VR6 4 bar part number 1H0919651Q and on searching of the Bosch Part number attached 0 986 580 823 does confirm 4 bar for that Bosch part no.

 

Edit to add - found it even cheaper here 

https://www.kmotorshop.com/en/article-detail/view/274323/fuel-pump-0986580823-bosch-1028808-1h0919651h-1hm919051m

The fuel pump pre filter sections look approx half the diameter of the OE pumps? So could possibly block quicker with debris from our 30 year old fuel tanks?

[oneohtwo 8]

I managed to get in contact with Bosch parts supply and they confirmed the pump would get up to 4 bar/run at 4 bar OK, so I think Keyo may have been mistaken.

Can't find anywhere that mentions flow rate, or what that needs to be, but I think I am just going to go ahead with the Bosch pump as it is listed as a replacement part and there's now no question about the pressure issue, relevant or not.

 

 

[Dox 23]

I've bought this one

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204942699313?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11051.m43.l1123&mkcid=26&ch=osgood&euid=dc3b4383eb1b4ba199db00fc3817e515&bu=44277270804&osub=-1~1&crd=20240910094419&segname=11051

[_Matt_ 32]

That's good, at least there are some options. What attracted you to the one in the link Dox?

I put the VDO NOS one in mine, even though it had a crack on the casing. No doubt one day i will need to replace it.