Slimline fans -wiring

[fendervg 33]

This is what I had from back in the day:

357 919 369F - sensor for fan - in thermostat housing x 1
357 121 210 - plastic fan cowling x 1
1H0119137A - aux radiator fan belt x 1
171 121 276D - rubber washer for radiator x 2
N  903 059 01 - front bumper mounting bolts x 4

so 357 121 210 is the fan ring, I only needed one at the time - 357 means it's also used on the Passat, and I see some references to Seat Toledo etc.

[ABV-VR6 12]

Thanks Fen! Yes that's the part number for the rings, I did search all over here first and it's a no-go... I guess with the age and heat, that plastic became very brittle. It's those plastic tabs that goes in the metal shroud that where pretty much all broken. The sad thing is the metal shroud itself has ZERO rust on it!! I was planning on getting it powder coated to preserve it! Cheers 

[1xshaunx1 27]

Have it coated then  use JB Weld to glue it back on in position, this does work. 
if you went the spall fan route using the kit you refer to it gets its signal from the rad sender so you could loose the big relay and wiring for it above the gear box. 

[ABV-VR6 12]

That's a very good point Shaun! I was wondering if that big relay was going away if installing a spal system. Then, it might be another positive thing to consider, not only it would look cleaner but that's another thing that can go wrong in the future that wouldn't anymore... Food for thoughts, thanks for bringing this to my attention. 

I thought of jb weld to fix the cracks, it's the plastic studs that goes into the shroud I wasn't sure of? 

[1xshaunx1 27]

You won’t need the studs with jb weld. Just a dob of the stuff where the stud was. Is this the kit. https://phenixengineering.com/shop/corrado-vr6-fan-shroud-kit/

you could make that yourself and save $300. 

[ABV-VR6 12]

Okay, I'll investigate more then about the jb weld. I do have some, got it when working on the dash... Yes mate, that is the kit I'm thinking about! 

[1xshaunx1 27]

4 minutes ago, ABV-VR6 said:

Okay, I'll investigate more then about the jb weld. I do have some, got it when working on the dash... Yes mate, that is the kit I'm thinking about! 

Just rough both sides up before with sand paper and you’ll be good. 
I got the inspiration for mine looking at that kit

[1xshaunx1 27]

I had a new shroud powder coated that I jb welded the plastics on and it’s still on after using it for 5k miles before I put my new fans on a couple of years ago. In fact the things in the loft with the radiator should I want to go back to standard set up. 

[ABV-VR6 12]

All good points, thanks Shaun! With all that new information, I think I'll pause this for now so I can think about it. By that I mean, see if I can budget for a spal kit ha haa. Engine won't be going in till fall anyway. I like the fact that I can loose that big relay box... Thanks for all the judicious advise as usual! 

[ABV-VR6 12]

Alright mates, I pulled the trigger on this shroud. Came up on sale, has a 12" and a 9" openings and I think for my NA set-up it should suffice. Thinking about it more, even if my oem fan parts "look good" they're old and will fail sooner than later. So for peace of mind I will be replacing the system. 

https://www.fablessmanufacturing.com/products/fan-shroud-vw-corrado

Thinking of making the wiring harness now and I think I'm still not sure about a few things. 

The connector I see installed on you guts shrouds is from a Sharan correct? But like Fla, it's possible to buy both connectors off a MK4 instead to make the connection right? 

With this Spal set-up and relays mounted to the shroud. The entire fan relay module and its wiring can be removed? 

Shaun, with your wiring did you keep all 3 speeds and the after run as well? 

Since I deleted the A/C I probably don't need the 3rd speed anymore. Would be nice to have 2 speeds only where the second speed actuate the second 9" fan plus the after run and that's it! 

 

[1xshaunx1 27]

If you want to get rid of the fan control box and all the shite connected to it you need to run 2 fused powered relays from the battery to the fans and signal them from the two stage rad switch. You just need the plug that’s on your loom feeding a signal to the relays from the switch. You could have one or both come on. 
I have set mine up using the sharan plug so I can keep the fan control unit and it’s wiring. 
Hope that makes sense 

[ABV-VR6 12]

Thanks again Shaun, yes it starts to make sense after reading it a few times 😉

Another idea I have is to keep the fan relay box and switch the relay for a non A/C one which should give me two speeds instead of the 3 speeds I had before removing the A/C. I have a brand new oem one I got for $10!

Tbe Sharan connector might be harder to find for me here in Canada since we didn't get that model. I may go the same way Fla did with the MK4 connectors which I can probably source locally at the dealer. Cheers! 

[1xshaunx1 27]

The fan controller controls 3 speeds. 
1 & 2 from the rad switch and 3rd speed from the black sender  in the thermostat housing. The fan control unit sends power to one of the three cables from the signal it gets. That’s why you can join the three wires together near the fan plug without getting current bleed going somewhere else that connects to the new fans.  I use the two signals from the rad switch and the black switch unplugged so I can’t go over temp and bring that signal in. It would have easier and less complicated to just use the rad switch for just the first two signals direct from the fan switch like the Phenix fan set up. 
mine don’t change speed. 
the slim fan come on a 95 Celsius and both come on at 105 Celsius. 
that shroud seem basic for the money and the fans aren’t the best either. 
My bent plate cost £40 I think and I cut it out with a jigsaw. Look on the Spal fan website to determine fans and flow rates. 
it’s the fans, relays and wiring where the money is. 

[ABV-VR6 12]

Oh non! I didn't realize there was different quality fans, I just noticed there's a huge difference between those and the phenix ones. And I ordered them already, man I'm so disappointed! 

Thing is there's nothing where I live, I can't go to a shop and get metal bended. Well, I could but it would cost me a day and a ferry which would eat the price difference and more... 

I'll look into the phenix wiring... 

[1xshaunx1 27]

10 minutes ago, ABV-VR6 said:

Oh non! I didn't realize there was different quality fans, I just noticed there's a huge difference between those and the phenix ones. And I ordered them already, man I'm so disappointed! 

Thing is there's nothing where I live, I can't go to a shop and get metal bended. Well, I could but it would cost me a day and a ferry which would eat the price difference and more... 

I'll look into the phenix wiring... 

It’s a minefield mate. Do a lot of research and get an idea of what you going to do or you’ll end up like me with two sets of fans. 
I also made a double 11” set up before I went for 12”. That’s in the loft

😂😂🤣🤣

[ABV-VR6 12]

Thanks for making me laugh mate, I'm so mad at myself! 

Thing is I wanted the phenix but by the time it arrives here it's twice as much as the other one since fabless is a Canadian company. That said, I didn't even noticed the fan cfm difference... That part sucks big time. Maybe those will go in the loft and I'll order the better ones 🤪😆😁. 

Do you know what is the cfm on the oem setup? 

[1xshaunx1 27]

No idea cfm on oem fans but quite powerful on stage 3 and uses a lot of power. Fairly gentle spin on speed one

[ABV-VR6 12]

Alright thanks mate! 

[1xshaunx1 27]

37 minutes ago, 1xshaunx1 said:

51 minutes ago, ABV-VR6 said:

Thanks for making me laugh mate, I'm so mad at myself! 

Thing is I wanted the phenix but by the time it arrives here it's twice as much as the other one since fabless is a Canadian company. That said, I didn't even noticed the fan cfm difference... That part sucks big time. Maybe those will go in the loft and I'll order the better ones 🤪😆😁. 

Do you know what is the cfm on the oem setup? 

This is my not so slim fan

https://www.malpasairflow.co.uk/itm/12-305mm-Fans/SPAL-12-305mm-Cooling-Fan-VA34-AP70-LL-36A-12v-1434-cfm-Pulling/30102051

it’s about 1640 cfm

the combined fabless system is 1547 so wouldn’t be as good for me as my one larger fan.

But running standard engine you’ll be alright I would have thought. 

[1xshaunx1 27]

They’ve gone up a lot in 2 years I paid

£247 delivered nearly 2 years ago

my slim fan knocks out 1328 cfm

[ABV-VR6 12]

Ya, I'm thinking that those fans from fabless are the slimmest version, the ones you need for a VR6 swap in a MK1 because it's very tight. 

That said, I compared and really only the 12" has a big cfm difference between the straight and the curved blades design. Which is 1226 cfm for the curved version and 867 for the straight blades. A 359 cfm difference and I think I will upgrade to that one and return the straight blade I ordered. 

As for the 9" there's only 35 cfm difference (625 curved and 590 straight) between the two models so it's not really a huge difference... 

That would get me 1816 total cfm and for an NA set-up that must be enough. 

What do you think mate? 

[ABV-VR6 12]

1 hour ago, 1xshaunx1 said:

This is my not so slim fan

https://www.malpasairflow.co.uk/itm/12-305mm-Fans/SPAL-12-305mm-Cooling-Fan-VA34-AP70-LL-36A-12v-1434-cfm-Pulling/30102051

it’s about 1640 cfm

the combined fabless system is 1547 so wouldn’t be as good for me as my one larger fan.

But running standard engine you’ll be alright I would have thought. 

That fan as massive cfm mate! Holy!! 

I noticed the blade design is different too. The ones from phenix are 1226. 

[1xshaunx1 27]

That should be enough, I think the curved blades are quieter too but makes less difference the smaller you go. 

[ABV-VR6 12]

Good point! Haven't thought about that and you're probably right. Thanks again for bringing that up to me. 

[oneohtwo 8]

Sounds like you've got this in hand - but if you needed I can send you the CAD files I made for my shroud. I have tweaked them since I made mine as it needed a bit of fettling, but it fits 2 11" fans. I sent it off to a laser cutting company and they cut and folded it for about £14. Don't know if you'd have access to a similar online supplier?

The fixings are for slimline Comex fans though, so don't know if you can get those over there. They pull about 960 cfm max at zero static pressure, so a bit less than Shaun's hefty effort! That's the difference with going slimline I think, plus only 11" compared to 12", so I wouldn't worry too much if the ones you were looking at were around that level.

Also I think the two 12" SPAL fans you were comparing might have been a super-low profile straight blade and just a low profile curved blade. I think the equivalent low profile straight blade fan pulls 1097 cfm looking a the catalogue, so still less but not quite so much of a difference. Might be worth double checking what you've got - might not be as bad as it seems and would save some hassle sending it back.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by oneohtwo