Mr Sands

I do absolutely understand the need to discuss hp gains; I wouldn't originally have quoted any hp gain figure for my car else. And therefore having quoted the specific hp gains for my car, to give the only kind of stat that I can give so far for any gain, I then wrote the write-up that I did. Nowhere did I try to suggest that my write-up in any way offered scientific or measurable quantification for the difference made to my car; in fact, the write-up's entire ethos was to try to do the opposite and offer my thoroughly unscientific bum dyno's feedback. Kev, I will quite happily admit that my particular technical and mechanical knowledge is non-existent compared with yours. I also fully accept your reason for starting this thread as being to obtain some hard facts about specific gains if these cams are fitted. My apologies if my write-up isn't the kind of scientific proof that you're after; I simply can't offer that and don't really feel that it's my place too, given that this is my only experience of cams on a VR. However, I would be so bold as to suggest that for a sizeable contingent of Corrado owners, it's not necessarily all about hp gains. Perhaps I am the only one in this minority? Nevertheless, I have always been far more interested in the more intangible qualities of any upgrade eg refinement of driving experience, which perhaps can't be measured. It was for the people like me that I offered up that review. Unscientific and unquantifiable it might be but it would have been the kind of thing that I would have been more interested in reading, pre-cams, than just the overall hp gain, which, frankly, was of less interest to me. Sorry if that doesn't quite fit with your intended direction for this thread. :D

Too true Jim. The one that sticks in the mind is that thread from Pistonheads that someone put up a link to on here a year or two ago now. It was the one about the Scooby driver (I think) who had been enjoying a spirited drive, had forgotten the cardinal rule of "Can you stop in the distance that you can see to be clear?" and came around a bend on a hill going some, only to have no time to avoid a car that had skidded and ended up sideways in the road. It had the worst possible consequences and the Scooby driver ended up doing a spell inside. Unlike many on Pistonheads, he came across as a level headed, ordinary bloke enjoying his Sunday motoring; true, he'd been going too quickly for that road and that bend but how many of us can claim not to do that, and probably fairly frequently? I can certainly say that it made me think about how I was driving, given how that one moment of fairly habitual driving had ruined his life. And Tempest, hear hear! I've often been grateful for the common sense policing by a couple of super Road Traffic Officers who pulled me one night for some fairly spirited driving on an A road. Only time I've ever been stopped; granted, I wasn't going quite so quickly as you but they would have been well within their rights to give me at least three points. A friendly warning about being a bit more sensible really went home and I stopped being an occasionally d*ckheaded driver from that point on. Sure, I enjoy giving the VR some beans but only within sensible tolerances and conditions now.

Loving all this gents. This has got legs...

To andy and C5 OEM, you're more than welcome for the write up; hope it helps. All I'm doing is paying tribute to an absolutely outstanding bit of kit. C5 OEM, I'm sure that Dave and Graham will be more than happy to talk through torque figures, likely gains, showing graphs etc with you, since all our cars these days have got to the stage (at least fifteen years old) where they all have their own idiosyncracies and conditions affecting likely returns. To that end, very sensibly I think, Dave and Graham include a fulsome check of the car's health in the price of cams plus fitting and remap (Linky) in order to try to make sure that you'll get the results you hope for. For that reason too, any graphs generated for any particular car are best seen really in the context of that car only, since they're all at such different levels of engine strength/mileage wear etc. Taking mine as an example, quite by random coincidence, we discovered just before the scheduled cam fitting that the reason I'd been losing coolant slowly was head gasket failure. If we hadn't, the results on the cams and remapping would have been disappointing. With a rebuilt head, I'm sure that contributed to the extremely pleasing results that I'm finding. Jim, I can't wait for a rather more unscientific but rather more enjoyable test! What would really top that off would be to pop someone in the car in front as a camera car and do the full on amateur Top Gear tribute. Failing that, strapping the eBay cheapy special cameras to each motor would produce an enjoyable record of the event. I still haven't got around to using mine since purchase (bloody life always gets in the way!) but I think the work on the VR has provided me with reason to do so over the Christmas break... Ed.

Right. I've spent two days searching for the "has put cat among pigeons" emoticon but there doesn't seem to be one! However, I fear that by satisying people's curiosity by quoting the bhp figure (generated on what is by all accounts quite a conservative dyno), I've rather missed the opportunity of passing on how utterly transformative these cams are. Having had the car back for two days now and taken it on a couple of spirited drives as well as the daily commute, it excels now, far more than ever before, in all areas of daily VR driving. The first and most noticeable feature is the far more effortless attitude of the throttle; those of you who've already had a custom DG map know exactly what I'm talking about. It's like a massively intensified, exponentially multiplied version of that extra smooth and potent response, what I like to call "The DG Factor". In whatever gear, at whatever RPM, the request for power of depressing the accelerator meets with a far smoother and more potent delivery of torque. Classic occasions where the VR lump is lazy (low revs or when cruising in a lower gear or up a hill), it now gives far more of a feeling of being a big, powerful six litre lump. What I can't emphasise enough though is how smooth the delivery of that torque is. The timing and mapping ensure that it is delivered in a refined manner, whatever the gear. Ultimately, it helps to turn the VR into what it always has been, for me at least: a potent but classy grand tourer that is effortless to drive smoothly. However, like all grand tourers, it's got to go like a scalded cat when you want it to. This is where the VR has always excelled: wring its neck, push the revs up to 3,500/4,000 rpm and the gorgeous noise starts and the world goes backwards. The new cams have added masses here too: that feeling of immense power delivery comes in consistently earlier on and more freely, as outlined above. But if you do decide to head up towards the redline, at 5000 rpm plus, a whole new bonkers world arrives. I can't believe how much more the engine now feels that it's got under the bonnet and the VR soundtrack just got remastered in extra clarity and glory. There is an almost savage extra push and drive to the top end to complement the lower end refinement and smoothness. Allied to an absolutely silky smooth idle, the whole package is testament to Dave and Graham's absolute expertise with this engine (and VAG generally) and is, for me, the ultimate OEM+ mod. If you came new to Corrados and bought one with DG cams and map, you would have no idea that this wasn't entirely stock; you'd simply think that this is how VW intended the car to be. I think you'd then be disappointed if you stepped into a stock example, that it was missing some key elements. For me, making performance mods has always been something I've been hugely reticent about, since often you have to sacrifice some element of OEM comfort/smoothness/refinement to get the gain. This is the best of both worlds: much more rewarding performance, both cruising AND hooning but all wrapped up in totally OEM feeling smoothness and professional delivery. Dave and Graham, I salute you. :notworthy: The VR now drives like it should do. Anyone thinking of cams, you can't go wrong here. Rather than the bhp figure (impressive enough for me given the rather parsimonious dyno on which it was tested), trust in my "bum dyno's" (Dave's charming phrase) excellent feedback. My bottom is never wrong. Ed.

Received the following communications from Dave earlier on: "The results are in.......212hp! Nice fat torque curve. Air fuel spot on 12.5! Really pleased with that, this dyno is really accurate. :)" Suffice it to say, that absolutely made my afternoon/early Christmas/year...and I haven't even driven her myself yet, merely heard Dave and Graham say how it goes "like stink", for a N/A tuned VR that is; clearly the more hardcore among you, including the dynamic duo, start forcing induction. Nutters! :D It's OEM+ all the way for me and it doesn't get much more plus than an extra 20 odd bhp above stock and, much more importantly, a big fat wad of extra torque across the rev. range. Granted, I think the low miles on mine (72,200ish) and the simultaneously rebuilt head probably did a good deal to help boost the figures. I'll try to publish any graphs or data that come my way in time but for now, I am one very very happy camper. Roll on tomorrow and I'll be able to tell you all how a VR with DG cams in actually drives! :shades: Oh, it wasn't ALL good news. In the wait for the dyno slot, Dave and Graham found my stash of giant Cadbury's buttons on the under glove box shelf...

You're telling me! I must be one of their steadiest customers, and I'll tell you what, every penny has been money well spent. As much as the quality and excellence of the work, it's the friendliness of the reception eg good humour and bacon butties. :camp: but true. Still can't believe the dumb luck of having the only place I'd ever want to take my Corrado be right on my doorstep. :notworthy:

Yep - just swap the cams and a remap. If you've got noisy followers though, it's as good a time as any to change them :) Anything else advisable at the same time?? I would love to this come late spring time... I'm assuming a well ported head would compliment them too? I'd imagine so. While not having it ported per se, my VR's head has been being skimmed back due to head gasket failure, warping etc. Over the 'phone I discussed with Dave and Graham that this can only help the end results of the cams going in, as it's all adding up to better efficiency and kick in the engine. Now granted, I should see a particularly noticeable improvement, given that with a failing head gasket, my compression was down and I wouldn't have been putting out the stock 190 bhp, torque etc. That said, none of Dave, Graham or I had noticed that the car was going any less well than one would expect, which is some testament to how well built the VR lump is; it goes like a train even when slightly knackered. I had the chat with Dave and Graham when the head was in bits about whether to do anything else while they were in there; they inspected the tensioner and found it's got some life left in it. Given that and the fact that the clutch is still good, we left it as head rebuilt and cams only. But then that's just my motor: everyone's is different and I'm sure that Dave and Graham, sensible chaps that they are, would say that they'd want to have a good look around if yours went in and let you know what does or doesn't need doing. Ultimately, that's what they do: give you an accurate and fair appraisal of what state your motor's in. Cut a long story short: my head's now rebuilt, with Mk 4 parts which give slightly better compression than stock, all to compliment the new cams. Any day now I should be driving it; hopefully with SLIGHTLY milder weather coming, I might just be able to find a road on which to give it some beans and then let you know! :shades:

That makes two of us! That said, although I did quiz the terrific twosome over roughly what bhp gains the cams would be likely to give, I was very much of a similar mind to them that it's not really about the stats (and as Graham pointed out, no two rolling roads ever show quite the same results) but what it does to the drive. I understand that you'd want to see some kind of evidence for the gains that the cams are sold on but I have total faith in Dave and Graham to have produced a product that will give silky smooth gains in driving refinement and pleasure, as well as a bit more quantifiable kick. Ultimately this was a perfectly timed DG development for me, as OEM+ has always been my intention; I want to drive a Corrado that is spec'd as VW would have it if they were building it now. Now for the pleasure of driving it! Will stick up a review when I do.

Don't know if Kip's referring to me but I have the very great privilege of being among the first to have these fitted at DG Towers. They went in as part of a head rebuild (it was going in anyway but then we found why it was I'd been losing small amounts of coolant!) and Dave and Graham are just finishing up tweaking the map etc. Expecting to go pick her up any day now and am like a kid waiting for Christmas. Jim was there on Saturday while the car did its initial roadtests. He was very complimentary about how it sounded and Dave was very pleased indeed on the 'phone to me about how it went with the new cams in. Roll on the next couple of days! :clap: I'll let you know what it's like to drive but given that the remapping of the ECU with an otherwise stock engine was startlingly good, the combination of a rebuilt head and another map to suit the cams should be superb. thats great and all but will you actually know actual figures and not just that it feels quicker/more responsive...? same goes for the remapping; i`d like to see how the graphs compare..?[/quote:105c0z7c] Can't give you any data for the map alone I'm afraid, although I'm sure Dave and Graham might well be cooking something up there. However, as for the cams, mine is either going to be or has already been rolling roaded by D&G and compared with the output of a stock VR on the same rolling road. Mine is utterly stock engine wise apart from the map and the cams. Will be happy to show you the data that this generates. H.T.H. Ed.

Don't know if Kip's referring to me but I have the very great privilege of being among the first to have these fitted at DG Towers. They went in as part of a head rebuild (it was going in anyway but then we found why it was I'd been losing small amounts of coolant!) and Dave and Graham are just finishing up tweaking the map etc. Expecting to go pick her up any day now and am like a kid waiting for Christmas. Jim was there on Saturday while the car did its initial roadtests. He was very complimentary about how it sounded and Dave was very pleased indeed on the 'phone to me about how it went with the new cams in. Roll on the next couple of days! :clap: I'll let you know what it's like to drive but given that the remapping of the ECU with an otherwise stock engine was startlingly good, the combination of a rebuilt head and another map to suit the cams should be superb.

Pearoast.

Yes, my apologies too Phil. Well, my VR's no picture although she looks a lot better than she would have done last time you saw here, thanks to having had the panels swapped and a good polish. Dave mentioned the Cupra to me when he rang me, saying that it was a complete hoot but making some quite flattering comparisons about how the step down from that to my fifteen year old VR had been made a lot less noticeable by the cams and the mapping. Made me all the more keen to drive it...roll on the next couple of days!

Music to my ears Jim! I knew you were going to be up there, was trying to drop in on Saturday for a chat and a look over yours but the day was a bit too hectic. Shame, would have been nice to catch up. However, sounds like distinct thumbs up; I absolutely can't wait to drive it, it'll be an early Christmas pressie.

Seconded and then some...couldn't believe how much extra response they got out of mine just from remapping the ECU, without any other engine mods. Especially since we then discovered it had head gasket problems... :oops: Can't wait to get it back this week and see how it goes with their new cams and the remap tweaked again! :clap: Dave said it's pulling like a train now.

Think I might have to get my backside in gear and sign up (like I've been meaning to for ages too) given how sleep deprived Dave looked when at DG Towers today...think it took him a while into the wee hours to fix the site up. :notworthy:

Had a lovely half term day today capped by a chuftie on my way back from the Malvern Hills. Followed an Audi coupe with German style plates who took the opportunity to boot it whenever any small gap in traffic opened up. Wondered if he was trying to see if I'd keep up; I didn't see the point in burning the fuel or wrecking the speed limit in heavy traffic so watched him go each time with a smile. He really went for it in the 40 limit between Powick and the Powick roundabout on the A4440. I let him go but pulled up alongside as we waited to get on to the roundabout. Sure enough, he turned over his shoulder for a good look. I gave him a friendly VAG group nod and got a definite nod of "Nice!" in return. Made a lovely day complete! :clap:

Yeah, there's a small number of us. Me and CrazyDave in Worcester, Nemesis 360 and Jaded_2882 in Kiddy, duckdown_hoodrat in Bromsgrove, DaveStorm over in Hereford and a load more whom I've probably forgotten (apologies!). Ed.

Red 'rado, spotted parked in the Holt Fleet Inn car park early evening today.

Black K reg pulling onto City Walls Road by the Fownes Hotel, mid afternoon today. I was pulling out from the street opposite, gave you a toot but you were concentrating on getting our into the traffic!

Dark coloured (Twilight?) 'rado, clear rear light clusters, didn't get the engine type, heading along Money Lane towards the A491 at about ten to nine this morning. Saw you late and flashed, got a very cheerful thumbs up back!

Dump valve is also a useful way of describing someone who thinks that these are a good idea.

Was tempted to have a DG remapped ECU put into the VR when it went in for a service last week. Truth be told, Dave didn't exactly have to twist my arm behind my back...he and Graham have done it again! Superb bit of kit, really makes a noticeable difference to the lazy bottom end of the torque curve and sharpens up throttle response noticeably across the range. Essential mod for OEM+/modders alike. Well chuffed with it and more than happy to have my feedback added to the growing, glowing tributes. It's stuff that makes DG the Corrado experts par excellence. Ed.

:cry: Sad tidings indeed but was told by the gf's brother that on Friday he passed a shell of a Corrado that had clearly suffered a catastrophic fire, at the roadside in Powick, near the Powick bridge roundabout. He said it you could see the paint colour had been black but the rest was as bad as you might expect. Wondered if anyone on here knew anything? There is a black VR that I sometimes see in Worcester but I don't think the user is on here. Whoever it was, sympathies. :(

A chap in a big, flash and quick Beemer gave me a massive chuftie yesterday on the M5, going up towards the M42 peeling off at 4a. I'd pulled into the middle lane to let him pass but he slowed and pointed at the car, mouthing "Nice car!". I gave him the thumbs up and an opening up of the throttle as I then overtook him as he pulled into the middle lane to take the M42. Huge chuftie. slightly lessened by the feller then driving like a bit of a tool, weaving in and out of traffic and undertaking rather recklessly before taking the M42. Sorry if you're on here: loved the chuftie, thought the driving was a bit full on.