Andi 2,147,483,647 Posted August 9, 2003 Jesus, are you sure you two are old enough to drive? You don't act it. Comedy though, keep it up ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vr6storm 0 Posted August 9, 2003 And if you listen carefully, you can just make out the sound of me smashing my head of a wall continually...... You wish i bet roddy, But lets face it, i'll always be wrong to you... :roll: cos you normally are :roll: :roll: :roll: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ess Three 0 Posted August 9, 2003 Jeez...you pair of muppets should stop trying to score points off each other...eventually you will both realise that you are BOTH ending up looking very childish! Back to suspension: Dampers: Don't be fooled by the whole 'Koni make FK dampers' thing. Pirelli make tyres for other people too...using lower standard rubber and lesser developed tread designs than they use on their own branded tyres...so, do not assume that something that is made by someone else, is made to the same standard. A Cavialier SRI used to have Bilstein dampers...but fitting aftermarket dampers still improved them...so Bilstein dampers are not just Bilstein dampers...there are many versions built to many standards. Same with Konis. The things to consider are many: What is the material sleection like? What are the damping rates like? What are the seals like? Personally...and this is my own view...I don't believe that FKs are as well made or developed as Konis...but that's my view...Konis have rubber dust shielding around the tops of the dampers...to my knowlegde FKs do not...and I have burst too many 'lesser' dampers over the years of running in the NE of Scotland to risk not having full crud protection. They may well become so...but at the moment, FK stuff is definately still improving. Springs: BMW making springs? What are you smoking? BMW don't make springs...the springs will be made by one of the major spring compainies located worldwide....same with the dampers...as with every car company they will be made by one of the majors...Sachs, Bilstein, Boge etc. It doesn't matter who makes them...it's the spring to damper ratio that makes a car handle...not the stiffness of the springs. As long as the springs are quality and the dampers can be adjusted / are set to match the spring rate, the handling will increase. Anyone who has corner weighted a car will know what the differences are when changing springs...not a lot is the answer! To think that having one set of springs to cover many cars is a bad thing is naive...as long as the damping is right, the kit will be fine. This being said...this is where the personal choice comes in...personally again, I find the Konis somewhat firm around town...but incredible on the open road. Some kits are softer around town...some stiffer...it's up to you! At the end of the day...you pay your money and make your choice...and hopefully you'll not be dissapointed with it. But, set the car up badly and you've wasted your cash... You can end up with a better handling car by setting up the standard stuff more aggressively than standard, compared to someone who has not paid the required attention to setting up thier coilovers. As with everything there is no right and no wrong. Everyone likes their car set up differently...and everyones description of 'comfort' & 'handling' is different. Make your choice and enjoy your car. And you pair of muppets...give it a rest! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vr6storm 0 Posted August 9, 2003 Jeez...you pair of muppets should stop trying to score points off each other...eventually you will both realise that you are BOTH ending up looking very childish! Back to suspension: Dampers: Don't be fooled by the whole 'Koni make FK dampers' thing. Pirelli make tyres for other people too...using lower standard rubber and lesser developed tread designs than they use on their own branded tyres...so, do not assume that something that is made by someone else, is made to the same standard. A Cavialier SRI used to have Bilstein dampers...but fitting aftermarket dampers still improved them...so Bilstein dampers are not just Bilstein dampers...there are many versions built to many standards. Same with Konis. The things to consider are many: What is the material sleection like? What are the damping rates like? What are the seals like? Personally...and this is my own view...I don't believe that FKs are as well made or developed as Konis...but that's my view...Konis have rubber dust shielding around the tops of the dampers...to my knowlegde FKs do not...and I have burst too many 'lesser' dampers over the years of running in the NE of Scotland to risk not having full crud protection. They may well become so...but at the moment, FK stuff is definately still improving. Springs: BMW making springs? What are you smoking? BMW don't make springs...the springs will be made by one of the major spring compainies located worldwide....same with the dampers...as with every car company they will be made by one of the majors...Sachs, Bilstein, Boge etc. It doesn't matter who makes them...it's the spring to damper ratio that makes a car handle...not the stiffness of the springs. As long as the springs are quality and the dampers can be adjusted / are set to match the spring rate, the handling will increase. Anyone who has corner weighted a car will know what the differences are when changing springs...not a lot is the answer! To think that having one set of springs to cover many cars is a bad thing is naive...as long as the damping is right, the kit will be fine. This being said...this is where the personal choice comes in...personally again, I find the Konis somewhat firm around town...but incredible on the open road. Some kits are softer around town...some stiffer...it's up to you! ! understand that glen.........what i was trying to put across to brian was that its a spring that is made for BMW either by themselves or by their O/E supplier........and FK use/modify the BMW-spec spring........ok i didn't make that point too clearly on reflection,but my little birdy who told me about it in the first place seems to have it on good information fair point we are both looking childish here :oops: (and in other posts/threads)but would you take some of the snide comments/remarks from brian that i've had........i think not........ok i've given him back some but not to the extent he has given me :wink: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ess Three 0 Posted August 9, 2003 understand that glen.........what i was trying to put across to brian was that its a spring that is made for BMW either by themselves or by their O/E supplier........and FK use/modify the BMW-spec spring........ok i didn't make that point too clearly on reflection,but my little birdy who told me about it in the first place seems to have it on good information And what exactly is a BMW spec spring? Springs are measures in lb/inch...or kg/mm or one of several other units depending upon your persuasion. A 'BMW' spec spring could be 200 lb/inch...but so might a Skoda Fabia...a Ford Focus...A Ferrari F40. You get the idea...there's no such thing as 'BMW' spec...as BMW spec changes front and rear on each model they make / have ever made. Linear rate springs only have 3 variables: ID (inside diameter)...normally 2 1/4" or 2 1/2" (or the metric equivelant if you prefer SI units!) Spring rate...for example 300 lb/in Free length...something like 12" for a VW coilover That's it. Period. It's just too big a world to say that FK use BMW spec springs...so might 90% of all the worlds cars! Why would FK choose to modify a BMW spec spring when they can have any combination of the above factors on a set of custom springs, perfectly, every time? (Things get more difficult with progressively wound coilover springs but that's not for here). fair point we are both looking childish here :oops: (and in other posts/threads) Good. Because you both do...often one more than the other. but would you take some of the snide comments/remarks from brian that i've had........i think not........ok i've given him back some but not to the extent he has given me :wink: In life Roddy...we develop the ability to not take the bait...it comes mostly with maturity. We develop the ability not to get bent out of shape about things that - in the grand scheme of things - are fairly unimportant. It's often better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt. Perhaps this should be considered occasionally. :wink: I believe Brian enjoys a days fishing...unfortunately the only thing I see taking the bait (very publically) is a certain VR6 driver. :oops: But hey, it makes for good reading. Do you pair know that there are people who log on here just to read the exploits of the pair of performing seals trying to score points off each other? Sad, but true. It's a shame when a potentially educational forum ends up as a mocking board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevemac 0 Posted August 9, 2003 In life, we develop the ability to not take the bait...it comes mostly with maturity. We develop the ability not to get bent out of shape about things that - in the grand scheme of things - are fairly unimportant. It's often better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt. Perhaps this should be considered occasionally. :wink: Well said :wink: I think sometimes opinions get confused with facts. Just because a person has opinion "A" about a certain subject, that does not mean another person with opinion "B" is wrong. Is is just an opinion - not a fact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Corrado31 0 Posted August 21, 2003 Respect to Ess Three I have just read the whole thread from start to finish, all 3 great pages of it. Must be the first time I've done that, and it was for the COMEDY. Anyway, cheers Kev and Ess Three etc etc for the useful suspension info tho. For my 2p, I used to have Koni TAs and Eibachs on my old VR6, and they were crashy as anything round town but superb on reasonable 'A' and 'B' roads. However, I would prefer a touch more comfort this time around, seeing as I live in town. From reading the sensible bits of this thread, there are good words coming out of the Koni damper camp, and a general agreement that the Eibachs might be contributing to an extra-bumpy ride. Totally agree with whoever mentioned the "boot full" look for Koni/Eibachs too - or is that a general suspension thing? The car's design, with bulk at the back, makes 17s look smaller than the fronts to start with, so how do y'all stop that spoiling the look? Or I am i just talking Sh**e (red rag to a bull on this thread - come on, I've teed that one up!) Best rgds Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joe M 0 Posted August 21, 2003 From what ive read the Koni dampers with H&R Springs give a more comfortable ride than the eibachs and look more level but still with excellant handling. Dont know from personal experience though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Corrado31 0 Posted August 21, 2003 That's good enough for me, Joe M. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted August 21, 2003 I can catergorically state your crashiness is down to the 17s and Eibach springs. As I've stated already, H&R springs are much much better. I have those and Koni TAs on my C and the ride is very good. The rear koni TAs are height adjustable (non TA are not). When fitting them, raise the C clip up a notch and I guarantee you won't get an arse down stance. Kev Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joe M 0 Posted August 21, 2003 The rear koni TAs are height adjustable (non TA are not). When fitting them, raise the C clip up a notch and I guarantee you won't get an arse down stance. Kev I take it the shocks need to come off the car to do that? Is it easy enough to do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted August 21, 2003 Yeah the shocks need to come off as you have to remove the spring to adjust the C clip. There are 5 (from memory) height adjustment slots. Middle is default. I always go up one slot and the ride height is then even. Just pull the C clip off with pliers and press into the next slot up, refit spring and refit to car. Kev Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joe M 0 Posted August 21, 2003 Nice one, ill add that to my list of jobs to do. Am I right in thinking spring compressors are not needed for the back shocks? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
