The Definitive 4wd Conversion thread

[CoxyLaad 0]

Hello,

I know I dont post a great deal on here about my car, so I will give you a bit of history on it before i start.

 

Bought a nugget yellow g60 corrado minus engine, and a 2.8 24v setup to go in it a number of years ago now, I also aquired a mk2 syncro setup at around the same time. The original plan was to have a 4wd 2.8 V6 with a vortech supercharger attached to it for good measure.

 

2 years down the line I decided that yellow was not me, so, after all the hassle of adding the syncro floor to the yellow corrado I sold it back to its original owner, and purchased a corrado VR auto in bordeaux red.

 

To confuse things a bit further I got the oppurtunity to buy a remapped R32 engine with schrick high lift cams, so I bought that and sold on the 2.8 and the charger that I had aquired.

 

I am now in the position where I have the R32 in the new car, and am currently sorting out all the wiring. The idea was to convert this one to 4wd in a more custom fashion as after doing it the first time, I realised you do not really need to install the syncro boot floor at all.

 

So this was the plan, but I have been told by a number of people that with the setup I am going to have, 4wd will not be worth it, and the car would be better with a pelequin diff fittted. I have also been told that its definately needed as even with a diff it will spin the wheels for fun.

 

Now I have no real basis to make an informed judgement, as I have little experience of either - and this is what's doing me napper in.

 

It would be sort of admitting defeat to not fit it as I have spent ages and a lot of time effort and money into building a syncro rear axle setup to take a haldex diff, polybushed, mk3 VR syncro wide track rear wishbones, 280mm vented rear discs, audi S2 rear calipers, shortened 4motion prop etc etc.

 

Question is, is it worth it? I am not sure, Jay, and mr VRBanana think not, mr Horrocks thinks so

 

I suppose its a case of positives and negatives. 4wd has the weight penalty (which is not that much IMO, probablies a small childs worth) and some hearsay about fictional drivetrain losses. On the upside the level of grip will be more than I ever need, and I will no longer have to deal with understeer (my pet hate). The 2wd plus diff I suppose is the opposite, the car retains its 2wd weight, and maximises grip from the front 2 wheels. But is it enough grip? Horrocks reckons his VR was spinning both front wheels in his black mk2 with a diff. Harra also said he has to feather the throttle to stop it spinning. Jay thinks a diff will be more than enough.

 

My head is in bits, I dont know what to do.

 

Options are:

 

Sell the 4wd gear, to finance a diff and remain 2wd and hope it has sufficent grip.

 

Carry on with the 4wd and hope it works out ok.

 

Need opinions and advice on this as I have changed my mind more times than I change underpants in a week :?

Any words of wisdom would be greatfuly recieved.

 

Help [insert white flag waving smiley here]

[double-6s 0]

Speaking without knowledge here mate, just what i feel......

 

sod it, go 4WD! gotta be worth it if you have all the schnizzle already? and think of the 4-wheel drifts you'll be pulling!!

[crdo16v 0]

i got lost in there somewhere mate, I dunno wot to suggest :scratch:

[CoxyLaad 0]

ah right, you must be in the same 'lost' room that I am in the lol :lol:

[24V Renshaw 0]

VW Corrado - "one of, if not the best handling front wheel drive cars ever produced".

 

Quattro System - "one of if not the best 4WD system ever produced"

 

Syncro system - erm, well its OK if you like 80/20 bias :)

 

Flame jacket on :)

 

Jay

[double-6s 0]

and surely 4WD will be worth it when you eventually charge the r32 lump? ;)

[veeDuB_Rado 0]

I'd say it's worth it.

 

Can make a real track day weapon

[double-6s 0]

VW Corrado - "one of, if not the best handling front wheel drive cars ever produced".

 

Quattro System - "one of if not the best 4WD system ever produced"

 

Syncro system - erm, well its OK if you like 80/20 bias :)

 

Flame jacket on :)

 

Jay

 

lol. can you change the bias to more rear action in any way Jay?

[bcstudent 0]

I wish I knew enough about it to have an opinion!

[24V Renshaw 0]

You can apparently on Haldex, people have managed to reprogramme it to 50/50, but not on the Syncro system.

 

If I am honest I think installing the Haldex system is worth doing if you are going for big power (over 300BHP) I would never bother with the Syncro system myself but I can kind of see why people do.

 

Jay

[24V Renshaw 0]

Oh and you can light the tyres up in any car if you drop the clutch with enough revs. You just have to be able to drive :)

 

Jay

[G60Jet 1]

what about RWD??

[double-6s 0]

Oh and you can light the tyres up in any car if you drop the clutch with enough revs. You just have to be able to drive :)

 

Jay

 

definately. the funniest thing i ever did in a car was in a 1.0 saxo, so that definately wasn't down to power or finesse!! :)

 

edit: sorry, a 1.0 AX

[CoxyLaad 0]

Well the setup I have is effectively a 4motion setup not a syncro one, and can provide 100% power to the rear (provided there is 0 grip at the front)

 

I agree the syncro system is pap.

 

and I also agree about lighting the wheels up, but it gets to a point where lighting the wheels up gets easier and easier, and this is what I dont know, how easy is it to spin the wheels in a car with a diff.

 

Also the engine setup that I have is alledgedly good for 300bhp. ok thats 300bhp on AMDs rollers so lets say 285 bhp. Its the same engine that made 255bhp at 4800rpm at stealth while pinking its bollox off, when you look at the map its going to be good for 280 easy.

 

If I new there was enough grip from a diff then I would definately have this kit in the for sale section, but I dont.

[chrishill 0]

surely you can adjust that bias though?

 

the way i look at it, if you just go with an LSD and its not enough you're going to kick yourself. If you go with the syncro system you know it'll have enough grip and you'll not be throwing the time/money/effort away. The additional weight isnt 'really' going to hinder you, as you say, its the weight of a small child, its only very rare occasions where that weight deficit is going have an impact and IMO its a small price for having 4wd.

 

also, if gone syncro without the syncro boot floor, i can imagine ALOT of people being interested in how it was done.

 

- edit -

 

took too long typing all that! ignore the syncro bits :?

[CoxyLaad 0]

RWD would be possible I suppose, but then its just as easy as 4wd so theres not much point really, unless you want to crash a lot

[chrishill 0]

:lol:

[CoxyLaad 0]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I think my heart is saying go 4wd, and my head is saying 'wibble' at the moment.

[Lippy 0]

if you've put the work and cash (both in quantites) in to the 4wd system, put that in and enjoy the fruits of the labour.

 

The last thing you want to do is to regret NOT putting it in - so do it, get it finished and go from there.

 

With 280 bhp and 4wd I can hardly seeing you regretting it. With 2wd you may just be thinking I wonder....6 months down the line.

 

2p

 

Andrew

[Rpmayne 0]

I don't have any experience with 4wd but surely the Corrado chassis has been built around fwd, so although the straight line grip should be better, isn't there a chance it might handle worse than the fwd and limited slip diff route?

[CoxyLaad 0]

aha! and this is the main point that concerns me.

The corrado rear axle is very very good, and there is a definately risk I may lose some of the ability of the corrado by removing it and fitting a syncro back axle.

 

but, on the other hand (again) the syncro axle is an indepent trailing arm wishbone setup so by rights should be at least as good as the 2wd back axle, and probablies better. But there is that what if scenario.

[dr_mat 0]

First time I've heard the Corrado rear axle described as "good" ...!

 

It's 1970's technology. It's the cause for the majority of the car's road noise and crashiness, and the only thing that makes it "different" from the others is those flexi bushes that essentially allow it to twist and give a little passive rear steer. Why do all modern cars use independent rear suspensions? It's not just because of the saved space!

 

Not having driven a VR with a trick diff, I can't really say whether it would be enough to keep 250+ lbft under control, but I doubt it. In a straight line maybe, but in the twisties I have a feeling that 4wd will always win. And modern UK traffic conditions give you far more requirement for 0-20 than 30-70, so I think I'd choose 4x4 if I had the power to do so.

[CoxyLaad 0]

Thanks for the input doc.

 

I thin I have to go 4wd, simply for the fact that if I do stick a diff in and its not enough, AND I have sold the 4wd gear I would be devestated!!

 

Thanks guys, you have just added an extra 5 months on my project lol :lol:

[H8RRA 0]

so thats another cop out for the "....finish in March...." promise ;)

 

 

(I've had that post saved and readied to post since last year when you stated March finish, coxy...... 8) )

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Independant rear suspension only really solves the lateral 'shock' issue that solid rear beams cause - where wheel compression on one side transmits to the other through the beam.

 

How many complaints do you hear of Clio 182 handing? None. What type or reax axle does that have? A solid beam. Independant rear may be the newest fad, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's better...all it does is just soak up bumps better. 205 GTIs have torsion beam rear suspension too, and again, few complaints...

 

If you want 'proper' suspension, but costs a feckin fortune, then you'd be looking at front and rear double wishbones....but not even they maintain static camber at the limit of their travel.....but it's the best solution by far using current technology.

 

Anyway, back on T..... I'm not convinced the Rado 'needs' 4x4 but it's certainly novel :-) Great for quick take offs and poor weather grip....but in all honesty, I've rarely ever found the rado to be lacking in mechanical grip....especially at the rear, it's barnacle like.

 

I've rarely overwhelmed my quaife. Only accidentally a few times when joining traffic, but then the quaife reigns in the slip a hell of a lot faster than an open diff would...so all you get is a quick scuffle and you're off....rather than sitting there lighting up a wheel wishing I'd had a quaife or TC (that works).

 

Cornering grip....never had a problem, with and without charger. The quaife won't allow the inside wheel to spin up, you get a maximum of an 80/20 torque transfer, so you'll never light it up. If the nose starts washing out, simply prod the gas and round you go.....but you know all this anyway Mr Laad.

 

If you're dumb enough to enter a bend with enough coal in the fire to spin both wheels mid bend , I don't think 4x4 would help you out there either.