Corrado club [Now with Poll!!]

[Mike Edwards 0]

The VWCCGB still has a VW Parts Club membership. Only any use for service items, but better than a poke in the etc...

 

Dealers will always give discount if you go there often enough :)

[Guest]

Just a few points.

 

Not everyone has access to a computer. I know there was mention that you could go to a library but as a way of keeping in touch that doesn't really hold. The amount of time I spend on here trying to keep up with social stuff would not be manageable.

 

The forum is great at arranging meets / events at reasonably short notice. I am sure many CCGB members (without internet access) would like to know of these meets. If a combined approach was agreed it might be possible to include more Corrado owners in the social scene by 'regional members' posting simple & brief details of forthcoming events.

 

The forum is great for instant reports on events etc but I like to have something more substantial for keeping. I would like to see write ups of all that is going on in a Corrado magazine that can be sent to everyone, those on line and those relying for information by post. I've tried to do my bit last year by writing a report of my first year 'on the VW scene' for the CCGB mag. Just waiting for it to come out to see if it has all been used now.

 

I hope details of the CCGB AGM are posted on the forum with an invite to all so that those that want to keep the Corrado club / forum alive and strong can get together and sort it out.

[Tempest 0]

Well said, Butterfly, as I too, must admit that forums are quick fixes for, for example, those moments at work, when you've got nothing better to do.

 

Whilst the amount of information is incredible on a forum, so's the amount of rubbish, dangerous tips (engine bay department, where I sometime shake my head in utter disbelief), and other time-wasting stuff being posted, that consumes time to wade through. in other words the signal-to-noise ratio of a forum will always be much lower than that of an edited mag like the Sprinter.

 

Why else would some here write things for the big 3 VW mags? Why do some even bother buying them, if there is this forum?

 

Hence I do think there still is a place for a mag like the Sprinter (BTW: Jeremy is no longer the editor of the Sprinter, time to read up on the club ;-) ).

 

never bothered joining after being gazumped by one of the main members

 

A one-off experience like that should not be taken as a general rule of thumb. Likewise if that particular person had been a CF-member, what would you have done? There are so-called "a**holes" (or better: people you personally just can't get on with) on here, too ;-) Sorry, guys, but that's a fact :-)

 

Although I haven't got a 100% bullet-proof recipe for a merger of the CF and the CCGB yet, I don't think raising a membership fee for this forum will do any good. The mods on the German Sciroccoforum (of whom I am one) have recently had a similar discussion, and raising a fee for an otherwise free forum was feared to drastically reduce the members numbers, as at the end of the day, despite so many good intentions, many a member will simply drop out, if he/she all of a sudden had to pay. Hence membership fees will have to be used to provide something else. For example, they are already being used to finance clubstands at events, where there is a charge for having a clubstand (eg Stanford Hall, BVF in Malvern, and several others).

 

Will carry on thinking about solutions :-)

 

Tempest

[VR6 0]

Eric,

 

But the forum wouldn't be a replacement for the CCGB. The CCGB would continue but with an improved and quite bespoke platform.

 

As far as membership fees go (for the forum), it wouldn't be a case of a compulsory charge. I think it would be tied in with the whole 'official Corrado Club' membership and would bring certain perks with it.

 

We certainly wouldn't want to alienate or make non-members feel unwelcome or obliged to join (but it certainly would help).

 

Having discussed this with some of the other mods and members on here, I think there are a lot of very good ideas that could be implemented.

 

Like I've said though, number one step is: do a) the 'people' want it and b) do the people at the respective summits want it?

[Tom B 0]

Apologies if this has been said before, I haven't fully read the thread.

 

Why don't CF and CCGB just associate with each other? Basically, CF can advertise the benefits of joining CCGB on the forum and CCGB and advertise the benefits of the forum in the magazine?

 

That way only the people truly interested in doing both will do both, rather than them having to accept two amalgamated clubs. Both clubs can run the same but should see popularity rise as a result.

[ReekieVR 0]

The TVRCC have a similar setup to what Tom suggests. There is a great club website with model info and forums (http://www.tvr-car-club.co.uk/index.asp). Much info is password protected for club members only. However, the main forum seems to be the Pistonheads one. The club forum is active but no where near as busy as the PHs.

 

Should they combine ? No, there is enough club action, info and events going on ( with a very smart monthly mag ) in order to justify keeping them separate. I'm pretty sure the PH forum is mentioned regularly though, on both the club site and in the mag - and accordingly the PHers point out the benefits of the club to TVR owners.

 

Basicaly our Corrado problem is: we have a strong forum with tentative steps towards generating funds, and a club with structures in place for marketing, ROs, the Sprinter mag, and dealing with / generating funds. It has a weak forum though.

 

I can see a combining of the clubs (or at the very least - working closely together) would have large benefits for (both.

[Toad 0]

If the forum and the club were to amalgamate as some people have suggested i think the trouble would be getting the balance of benefits for the paying members proportional to their contribution, from the number of members of this forum (5513 right now) there can only be a relatively small proportion who post with a high frequency, and many people who might post once or twice and just skim the web site for information relavant to them, the people who use the site often would (i imagine) be prepared to pay more, but would probably look for reasonable benefits, whilst the more infrequent visitor probably wouldn't want to pay as much. At the end of the day our level of interest in our cars varies so greatly. there are people here who consider and undertake work to the level of completely rebuilding thier cars, and there are people here who struggle to open the bonnet, but just want to chat, and find out if they ever get 'spotted', and many people in between.

Personally I think a pound or two every month is very little, especially when you consider the benfits we can reap with the forum currently, I think most of us have recieved valuable (in the true fiscal sense) information here, and it would be nice to help out the guys who put so much time into providing the rest of us with such a great place to come.

I don't really know what the answer is, I think this topic might just roll and roll for years. Good luck with working an answer out!

[Andi 2,147,483,647]

Suppose I better add my 2p..

 

My only fear about tackling the CCGB is the fact that its been 'rejuvenating' for the past couple of years, and sorry to say its failed.

 

If two years of CCGB bosses can't get it back up and running, then I fail to see why I should waste what very little time I have on flogging what seems to be a very dead horse.

 

Not everyone has computers? C'mon, 50% of the population are now on broadband, and even my Gran goes online to do her shopping now. There would be very few 'new' members who had no access at all. Is it worth rejuvenating an old format for the 20 or so club members who can't get online?

 

It would be like a new single coming out on tape, just in case you don't have a CD player yet... Great for the 38 people left in the UK who still use tapes, but pointless, money-wasting exercise for everyone else.

 

The biggest problem with this is that everyone is talk.

"Yes, I'd be up for that!" Yet, 2 months down the line, work committments, moving house, drug abuse, you name it, all the excuses leaves one person high and dry doing 8 people's work.

 

This is an old can of worms, which has already chewed my hand off before, so I don't really want to restart this debate

I have nothing against the CCGB per se, apart from the fact the current head was the first person to be banned for abusive behavior on the forum, and I feel that involvement will end up hindering the CF rather than helping.

 

The CCGB have been more than welcome to advertise their events on the forum, plus discussions on how to contact them and where the site's gone are frequent.

 

It's like buying a written-off car.

Cheap, could be fixed cheaply and might see you well, but everyone still knows its written-off...

[Furkz 0]

i think those evening classes paid of andi your spot on mate... totally understand where your coming from

[corozin 0]

The biggest problem with this is that everyone is talk.

"Yes, I'd be up for that!" Yet, 2 months down the line, work committments, moving house, drug abuse, you name it, all the excuses leaves one person high and dry doing 8 people's work.

 

Well at least there's one thing we can both agree on based on our experiences Andi...

:wink:

 

John

[NickRStorm 0]

Just to add yet another 2p to the debate :)

 

I can see both sides of the argument, but I think what we're really fighting against here is the expectation that "everything on the 'net is free" that many people seem to have. As I'm sure Andi will confirm, hosting is NOT free! The concern that I have is that without regular funding, eventually Andi will find a better use for his time and money. Like many things, you only really see the value when it's gone.

 

On the other hand, putting a formal structure in place can often change the nature of a loose-knit group such as the CF - I think we have something worth protecting & preserving in the CF, so we should be very careful when contemplating a change to a subscription model.

 

So, I guess what I'm proposing is that we keep things as they are at the CF, but that everyone throw a bit of cash Andi's way on a more regular basis. Personally, I'm happy to chuck £20 a year towards the running of the CF, but as Tesco's say, "every little helps".

[VR6 0]

Is this the start of the CCUK then? ;)

[Tempest 0]

Just me again :lol::

 

Whilst I get a little annoyed with every post stating the "end of the CCGB as a club", "there is no more room / demand for a club" etc., I would have to disagree.

 

Let's look at the difference of a club where members pay, and a potentially free forum.

 

Forums are publicly open to anyone wishing to join and post. As someone has already stated further above, people join with various degrees of interest in cars, that's reflected in the posts made. This means in effect that a forum does not only attract die-hard fanatics about a certain car, but rather also those that just happen to own such a car, and post the sort of "I'm really chuffed with my new motor" contributions.

 

Let's also not forget that our cars aren't in the Ferrari price range, i.e. unaffordable, on the contrary, they are getting cheaper and cheaper, therefore starting to attract the attention of what I might call the wrong kind of owner, e.g. boyracers, who would have otherwise bought a Goof. These type of owners will often view the C as an intermediate solution (first car they've owned) till they have the money to buy something else that better meets their needs. they will often just tear around in their cars, and show-off theirt talent etc. on forums, as forums are an ideal place to socialise with your "mates". These folk would probably never want to join a fee-based club, as they already have limited funds to run their cars. Sorry if this sounds somewhat patronisingg, but I believe it's true. When I was age 17-18, I could definitely not afford a car, full-stop. The ones I could have possibly afforded were definitely not worth owning or buying.

 

Clubs on the other hand are geared more towards the committed owners, who need morre technical, less waffly/show-off stuff. This invariably may also mean clubs are addressing the needs of older/more mature owners, who already have the money to afford the car, the club fees, the repairs etc.

 

As such I do believe that there still very much is a niche for the existence of a club.

 

So rather than simply slating a club like the CCGB, let's respect those that are still putting in the effort rather than just simply say, "there's no need for a club anymore". There will always be a need for a forum, but that's as I explained above, because of the totally different nature of a forum (excellent place to chit-chat and socialise).

 

Tempest

[dinkus 10]

I haven't read all of this thread, but I've seen most of the arguments for/against before and I was talking to a few people over the weekend.

 

I think that everything Eric says is true and there are people who want the exclusivity of a club and those that want the openess and freedom of a forum.

 

As to whether the CCGB is the right body for those wanting to be part of a club is a different matter. From what I've read/heard/experienced - I think not. But that does not mean that there isn't a need/want for a Corrado club of some sort.

 

My current thinking (which has been briefly discussed with Andi/other mods but nothing too serious just yet, so don't get too excited) is that the forum could fulfil both roles.

 

As people have suggested - the VR6OC and TVR Club operate a forum with a 'premium' membership that gives you extra privileges/access.

 

I think that provided the balance between what is free and what you have to pay for is made, then a premium CF membership could work.

 

You would keep nearly all of the current CF forum as it is and free to join/use, but perhaps (and this is just a suggestion) - only paid members can post in the For Sale forums, or free members have to post with a moderator checking their post first.

 

Similarly, while I believe that the technical knowledge should be kept free, we could restrict access to club-type activities to paid members only. So for example, we'll book a CF stand at a show, but as with CCGB now - you can only put your car on the stand if you're a paid member. In return we could then use some of the fee money to buy a CF banner to let people at shows know who we are and/or provide some BBQ action.

 

I think something like the Sprinter for paid members would be a little pointless as all the news will already have been covered online, the tech tips will already be online and it's a lot of work to put together.

 

However, I think that getting something physical for your money is also a big attraction for joining a club, so we could offer free stickers/calendar/posters/T-shirt/keyring/fluffy dice with your annual membership as well as the other privileges.

 

Of course it does mean that we then need to work out how the whole subscription model would work as well as writing/finding all the forum bells and whistles we'd need to implement it, but it's an idea... :)

[ReekieVR 0]

Dinkus - could you briefly explain any overlaps between staff here and organisers of the club.

 

I mean will the CCGB organisers be aware of this thread / poll or is there currently no real communication between forum and club?

[dinkus 10]

None of the mod-squad here are anything to do with the running of the CCGB - some of us are members though.

 

There are a few users on here that are/were involved with the running of the CCGB. I know Tempest is Events manager and involved in the Sprinter, but I don't know who else is doing what because I'm not a member.

 

The idea I suggested above is for the CF to expand to become more of a club rather than to get involved with the CCGB in any way though. I think the politics involved in getting the two to join are far more hassle than it's worth.

[Supercharged 2]

Is this the start of the CCUK then? ;)

 

LOL, can't we make it CFUK, or maybe FCUK then we wouldn't have to bother getting out own T shirts made up...

[DEL VR6 0]

blimey! just read all 5 pages of this, and forgot that i was even at work!

 

i agree with Tempest and Dinkus' points, they make the most sense and logic.

 

And defo agree that the forum shouldnt be free, or at least not all aspects of it should be free. Of course, this is Andis' decision as its his forum, but it has obviously moved on and grown from its original conception. For all the time the mods put into it and the cost of running it, there ought to be some sort of charge. It is definitely one of the best, most professional and well run forums i have used.

[2cc 0]

Sorry, OT, but

 

It would be like a new single coming out on tape, just in case you don't have a CD player yet... Great for the 38 people left in the UK who still use tapes..........

 

:shock: Damn, how soon are they phasing that out?

 

Clubs on the other hand are geared more towards the committed owners, who need morre technical, less waffly/show-off stuff. This invariably may also mean clubs are addressing the needs of older/more mature owners, who already have the money to afford the car, the club fees, the repairs etc.

 

You saying I'm old? :x

 

Seriously though, this is a difficult question so right off I'll say I have no answers to offer. Just a couple of thoughts.

 

True that in the past the club/other owner/magazine scene was essential if you wanted to know what was going on or how to do something, and now most of that is available at our fingertips on line.

 

I was delighted when I found the CCGB and joined up straight away, and fired off lots of techy questions all of which received specific detailed answers and advice (thanks Chris); each copy of the Sprinter was eagerly devoured (A4 sheets in those days), and yes I too admit to having good intentions for submitting articles but never doing so; shame on me! Neither did I get much involved in the meets early on but did enjoy the ones I went to and have met a lot of great people.

 

Then I found the CF (maybe even a link from the then CCGB site?) and joined here too. Loved it, being able to talk about C things daily, and I was on here all the time. Confess to being a bit intermittent at the moment, and tend to favour the mech side of things (eng/drive train etc) mostly; again lots of good info but also, alas, (my opinion here) some not so good - so, to misquote, caveat emptor, and lots of OT. And again I have met more great folks via here too.

 

So what am I trying so say? Both work for me. And many thanks to the people who've made it all happen (it's always more than meets the eye). So if a way can be found to bring any of the parts together then I think that can only be good news for our common interest - the C.

 

Like I said above, I don't claim to know the answers, and Dinkus may be right that it might be a political non starter.

But apart from being an idle, physically knackered old fart. probably still living in the past (Led Zeppelin are still just the best ever), I have no excuse for not standing up and being counted, so if anyone is counting......I'm up for trying to help out. As to where to start, clearly the poll is the first thing to confirm whether 'the people' want it (reassuring hand gesture, ingratiating smile, we are listening). Then, of course, the devil will be in the detail.

 

:oops: Not quite as brief as intended

[corozin 0]

Dinkus - could you briefly explain any overlaps between staff here and organisers of the club.

 

I mean will the CCGB organisers be aware of this thread / poll or is there currently no real communication between forum and club?

 

There are some (like Eric & me) who are involved with the CCGB. I am sure though that others within the CCGB are watching this thread and reading your comments with interest.

 

So, if there are any more intelligent contributions to be made to this discussion please keep them coming. Of course if you just want to act like a prat then bear in mind the image of forum users may be being damaged in their eyes.... that's if you care about these things of course :wink:

[Jim 2]

Apologies for the lack of contact John in response to your PM.. i've been incredibly busy lately. I'll try and write back soon! :)

[Stan 24v 0]

After reading above with regards to free fluffy dice etc when you join up, I think it would still be a good idea to keep the Sprinter going. I really like having it come through the door, and being able to read it at my leisure. You try sitting on the bog with a desktop on your lap :lol: Seriously though, its nice to have something in paper that you can take on a trip with you, or just read and collect and add to your Corrado service history etc to show (if/when you sell it on) how much you love it.

 

Also, some people dont access the forum, and are still members so they need something to keep them in the picture. Has anyone thought about these people? Maybe this topic should be in the next sprinter, to see what the non forum guys think??!!

[ReekieVR 0]

Just want to second Stan24v. I love seeing the sprinter envelope on my doorstep. I also have a couple to read in the loo.....

 

corozin - i dont think anyone on this thread has acted like a prat. Why say such a thing?

[Trig 0]

Agreed, I can't see any prattish comments. :?

 

I basically agree with what dinkus said, but I do resent the comment about people going against their word when volunteering to help. I said i'd help if I could with the best intentions and I wouldn't have spoken up if I hadn't of known that I have got/will-have the time to follow through (ooer!) with it. :)

 

I think some thoughts are probably needed from the guys that run CCGB as whatever is/may-be decided will obviously need their input.

 

:)

[Tempest 0]

Well, first things first, a CCGB AGM needs to be sorted, where I'll try and propose to also have non-CCGB members allowed to attend during those items that aren't meant for CCGB members only, i.e. to discuss the future and get more people involved. Personally I have no objection to getting more people involved, on the contrary :-) It's the intention that counts, not necessarily whether you are currently a payed-up member or not, nope, more important is apart from the intention of doing things the actual "doing the biz-thing", as that's where most of us tend to falter (notice how I said "us", as I do include myself :lol:, so as to not upset anyone :-)).

 

As far as harging for the forum is concerned, i still believe that large parts of the forum should remain free, as I will say this again, if the entire forum is charged for, this forum, like any other, will lose members in droves. People simply expect things on the net to be for free, that's in the nature of the beast. you may then ask, where these people that have left are going to? Vortex, other VW forums etc., as there are still plenty of forums available free of charge.

 

The fragmentation caused by forums "competing" amongst each other is another aspect that isn't to be ignored, which, I believe, a club may avoid to a certain degree. Take for example, how many Rados were at Utterly VW, which did not want to come onto the CF/CCGB stand, for whatever reason. Very often these Rados were with their "own", more favoured (or whatever you want to call it) forum (and mates).

 

Simply look at how many Sciroccoforums there are in the UK alone: 4, yes in words four!! Are there that many Sciroco-owners still left? :lol: Do we Scirocco-owners on these different forums talk to each other? Rarely, as you need to to a certain degree live in the "right" part of the country (to regularly meet up etc., thus this becoming more of a regional thing again, which is not what the Internet was all about), and be "in" with the right mates. That's just plain sad :-(

 

Tempest