Advice on lumpy, erratic 2.0 16v - being a bit crap again..

[Supercharged 2]

Basically a deadbeat. This is the guy.

 

LOL - thats got to be the worst feedback record i've ever seen!!!

[Jim 1]

Yeah but if you look at his record before I actually won the item (mid October) it wasn't that bad then! typical!! :|

[Lippy 0]

Happy New Year guys

 

I've just had some work done on mine, new cambelt, oil seals and some water pipe replacements.

 

Got it back and the idle seems to stick at 1100 slowly raising to 1500. A blip of the throttle + 2k revs usually sorts out the idle to around 900. Sometimes it drops back to 1100 and repeats up again. When turning the ignition the engine seems slow to catch with revs dropping a battery light flashing.

 

Granted, I've not driven it much over Xmas and the other day it was fine. Does this sound like an ISV thing, something sticking on the throttle body maybe something air/fuel related. All of this was off when tacking the belt and the seals.

 

Either by coincidence the MFA is showing 99.9 mpg, is there anything that could relate to this which could to do with the above symptoms?

 

Finally (phew!) can anyone post a picture of an ISV and the location on the engine bay (where I need to look)??

 

Cheers

 

Andrew

 

PS Jim, Phil K - how are your cars running?

[nocrap 0]

Tis one of these Click Me!

 

Sorry havent got a pic of my engine bay but it sits on the front rightish of the engine manifold and connects to the pipe that runs across the front of the engine...

[Jim 1]

Mine is running pretty good actually. I'm suffering from slightly high fuel consumption though.. i'm wondering whether I need to start swapping sensors, etc? But idle wise, the car has not hinted at or even attempted to cut out since fitting the new ISV.

 

If you have a 2.0 16v, search for one from an Audi 80 2.0 16v - they seem to be more plentiful - I picked mine up on eBay for £7 delivered!

 

The ISV is located on the right of the engine - look at the distributor cap and its the piece of kit in front of that (closer to you) on the side of the head. All the pipes and cables to it disconnect leaving you with the actual ISV.

[Lippy 0]

Jim, what kind of MPG you returning ? based on the MFA I get about 24 ish on the way to work around 12 miles, but get over 30 on a mway run.

 

Anyone comment on the MFA going to 99.9 could it be related to the other (minor ATM) problems?

[Jim 1]

Maybe its not so bad then based on yours but being as the car is only a 2.0 litre, i'd hoped for better. I seem to get around 20-22MPG on my 9 mile drive to work with a little stop start traffic but mostly just driving along and pulling out of a few junctions.

 

Motorway, generally i'll hit around 33MPG at the absolute best.

 

If i've accumulated good MPG on a straight run and then have to go into town, the economy just falls through the floor back down to about 22-24MPG at best.

 

Getting about 320 miles from £50 worth of fuel?

 

I think what i'm finding hard to understand is, basically, how under normal driving the 2.0 16v returns worse fuel economy than the VR6 does!

[Lippy 0]

Jim, sounds about right - to be honest its been a long time since I've filled her with 50 notes worth!

 

20 quid gets me around 150 at the limit (fumes!), well I panic then!

 

Know what you mean about the economy, it is pants compared to a VR I could have been driving! I think the main problem is the crumby injection, IIRC consistent rather than depending on engine load. Basically means that it doesn't really matter how you drive them. With a VR prob easier to decimate your mpg figure with a hoon tho...

[scarlett 0]

just caught up on this Jim - glad to hear she is all better...

 

not to sure about the fuel consuption though, does sound a bit much. I remember reading somewhere that a KR cam'd Valver will do less MPG than standard but I done Scotland and back in yours and could get there on just under a full tank - and wasnt exactly sitting at 60 all the way.... lol!

 

hope you get to the bottom of it, if there is a prob....

[corradophil 3]

My MPG is pretty reasonable, the overall average shown on the mfa is always between 29 - 31 mpg. A few months ago as a test, I reset the mfa and filled the tank to the brim. Then when I next filled up, noted how many miles I had done and how much fuel was required to fill it to the brim again i.e. how much had been used since last fill up. Based on this the mfa said 30.5mpg and I calculated 29.5mpg.

 

Interesting how you find VR6's more economical. I had a P reg OBD 2 Golf VR6 for a few days last year, and that was noticably worse on fuel than my Corrado.

[scarlett 0]

I found that I could easily get 32-34 mpg when driving the VR to work, which is a damn sight better than the 25 I currently get from my Audi....

 

sorry, OT!

[Jim 1]

Hi Laura :) Yeah - she's still going well! Just silly little things I need to get sorted but am just struggling to find the penny's for! That Audi ISV sorted out the idle problem totally.

 

Phil - hm, see I just never see anything like that on MFA2 but i'm willing to accept that most of my drives being short are not helping. Economy on a morning is dire but it does seem to improve when its fully up to temp... MFA2 told me, when I last checked, I was averaging approx 24MPG.

 

Thinking about it, one other thing that may be to blame. The car had fairly advanced timing when I bought it and since then i've had the timing retarded quite a bit.. I read that advancing the timing generally helps with fuel economy? Maybe worth getting it advanced a bit? I think its currently now set to 'factory' - is it 6 degrees BTDC..?

[CazzaVR 0]

Yeh, it's 6 degrees. Defo sounds like it's overfuelling.

[nocrap 0]

I was averaging approx 24MPG.

 

Yeah thats what mine seems to average, didn't ever read over about 28 when i drove over to stealth.........

[Jim 1]

Was going to replace the ECU coolant temp sensor as I heard that can contribute to overfuelling...

[corradophil 3]

Yes 6 deg BTDC is correct. The timing mark to use assuming you cannot adjust the timing light is the rectangular shaped lug.

 

It's a shame you don't live nearer, I'd happily set yours up the same as I set mine to see if it sorts it. I set mine according to the manual for both idle mixture and ignition timing.

 

MFA 2 on mine is hovering between 29-30mpg. A few months ago I got it up to 30.6, but I was trying to save fuel. My journey to work is about 15 mins of B road and 15 mins of windy country lanes, plus I usually do some shorter journeys in the evenings and weekends.

 

On a decent motorway run I usually get about 36mpg on MFA 1 assuming I don't boot it too much.

 

The VR6 I mentioned above was showing around 25mpg on MFA 1 the whole time I had it.

[Jim 1]

That would have been really handy - but as you say, shame you don't live a bit more locally :(

 

How do you set the idle mixture? Thats something i've not looked at on mine.. is it easy to do and do you need any monitoring equipment or anything?

[Lippy 0]

if it was overfueling wouldnt the CO2 emissions be way out - or am i barking up the wrong tree?

[corradophil 3]

How do you set the idle mixture? Thats something i've not looked at on mine.. is it easy to do and do you need any monitoring equipment or anything?

 

You need an ammeter (I used my digital multimeter), and some cable to wire it inline with the differential pressure regulator IIRC. It's been a couple of years since I set mine this way, so its not fresh in my memory, but I will scan the relevant info from the manual and upload it if you want?

 

With it set as per the manual my cars emmisions are very clean, and similar to my dads Mk4 Golf GTI and it drives well, and produced the power in my signature set using this method, so it can't be far wrong.

[Jim 1]

Sure - only upload it if its not too much trouble though.

 

Lippy - my emissions are way off. And I get black deposits on the exhaust only days after cleaning em off...

[Walesy 0]

OT - but regarding the MPG - it really does seem to vary from car to car. My current valver is returning around 5 MPG less than my last one, using the same roads/fuel etc etc - there must be something going wrong there surly.

 

I was getting around 33MPG average on my last one, and around 28MPG from the current one :(

[davidwort 0]

...not to sure about the fuel consuption though, does sound a bit much. I remember reading somewhere that a KR cam'd Valver will do less MPG than standard but I done Scotland and back in yours and could get there on just under a full tank - and wasnt exactly sitting at 60 all the way.... lol!

..

 

Main problem with the 16v in general is the peaky torque and the low gearing, a standard 2L will often be more frugal than a 1.8 because:

 

a) it has more low end torque from capacity so has to work less hard

b) has slightly higher gearing than a 1.8 box

c) the standard 9a inlet cam gives a flatter lower down the rev range peak torque band

d) the KE-jet system should control fuelling better in warm up as it's electronically controlled (not just a bi-metallic strip!)

 

Town driving always kills mpg, but the 16v is just the worst combination for this sort of driving, given mixed driving though if everything is healthy you shouldn't see less than 30mpg on a 1.8 or 2L.

 

Once you get older engines with cam changes, butchered air intakes, old or non-standard exhausts, large wheels and tyres, geometry out, suspect injectors etc etc... you can see where I'm going :)

 

It's worth noting that the VR6 engines not only have a shed load more torque and so just don't need to rev to make progress (less gear changes) but the VR6 gearing is way higher than the 16v too. Couple that to a fully electronic injection system and you can see why it is possible to get similar figures from the two engines.

[Lippy 0]

Jim, I get a black exhaust aswell, not cleaned it for a while tho (since November!). It passed its MOT, due again in March so may get it checked out and think about replacing some stuff.

 

More spending required waaaaa!

[jonesyUK 0]

Just to add to the original question 14 pages back my 2.0 16V N reg wih 155k on the clock was running in a very similar way. Although it ran fine from cold for about 15 minutes after this would misfire and shudder lots, revs couldn't get above 2500 rpm, at idle would flick up to 1500rpm then drop down to

 

WRONG!

 

Engine running even worse, same as above. Had a read around on the forum and found that many things could cause these symptoms. Went for the cheapest options of cleaning through Idle Vale (ISV) with Carb cleaner and checking hoses that went to it for splits. Then took off top section of air filter box and cleaned out Mass Air Flow thingy (MAF). Full of crud so I was hopeful. Removed all electrical connecters around MAF and sanded and scraped corrsion off. Verdict?

 

STILL RUNNING LIKE CRAP

 

Took to local garage for a diagnostic VAG.COM ECU error code check thing which threw up 3 faulty electrical parts. Brilliant I thought. 1. Rotor Arm and Distributor cap Shorting out 2. Faulty Throttle Switch 3. Faulty Water Temperature Sensor. Stupidly told garage to order parts and fit them for me without checking price first. Was desparate for car back after best part of 2 weeks without it + loads of hassle getting to work. Anyhow, Distributor Cap + Rotor Arm £20 (not bad), Throttle switch £100 (Yes 100 fricking pounds from VW, seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). Water temperature sensor still hadn't come in so I took the car as it was without it. Verdict?

 

Running much better but still occasionally reverting to the embarrassing kangarooing, near stalling and misfiring. Only did it for about 5 minutes of my 40 minute drive home. The 5 minutes when I was pulling into Tescos to get petrol.

 

Garage getting Water Temperature Sensor in for me tomorrow. If it's shockingly expensive I may well ask them to send it back and head for a breakers. Otherwise I will fit it myself. May well break down and cry if this doesn't cure all my woes.

 

ps. Sunroof still noggered and ABS light intermittent. The joy of Corrados eh :?

[Jim 1]

Have you tried a new ISV? It fixed my car up a treat but didn't show up in any diagnostic scans, etc...