VR rebuild or not?

[Toad 0]

Good evening. I was wondering what people thought of my plans...

 

The chains are particularly rattly in the vr at the moment, so I plan to take the engine and box out in January, put new chains, tensioners, oil pump, clutch and possibly gearbox on. The car runs smoothly, pulls fairly well, doesn't smoke, or use oil, but has done 140k. Should I take the head off and rebuild it whilst it's in bits anyway?

 

I wa splanning to get new stem seals guides, get the valves ground back in, full decoke, new tappets etc. But theres' probably very little wrong with it, so is it worth the extra £300? I'm swaying toward going the whole hog, then I'll be able to check the bores out and mensure the bottom end is still good, and I can be confident that the engine will not need work till at least 200k.

 

Also which head gasket should I go for? I've heard that the mk4 24v one is better than the vr h/g and increases compression slightly.

 

All opinions welcome!

[M15 VW 0]

Well you know what my view will be .......... do it all this time around. At least you will know it has all been done. A bit of piece of mind too knowing something else wont go wrong not too many miles down the road. You will have it all apart anyway so you might aswell :)

 

Just my 2p's worth. :)

[double-6s 0]

If i was you mate I would rebuild the whole lot, to a higher than standard spec. Not for more power but for strength and longevity. If I was back at the point when I had a fekked engine, thats what I would do the 2nd time around. I would love to have an engine that you pretty much knew you could nail, day in day out, without killing it really quickly (like i do with ALL my engines).

 

I'd quite like to do it for the alfa as a long term project. Get a new block and slowly over a couple of years, do the research and buy the right bits, and build up a super strong engine for the inevitable day when mine goes pop! :)

 

Imagine how cool it would be to be able to ring the nuts of ya motor all the time without too much risk of engine death! Heaven :)

[tonedef 8]

I did exactly the same job last winter although mine only got a new clutch as the gearbox is fine. Even then the clutch was a waste of money, at 113K it was no more worn than the new one I put in but you have to do it when it's in pieces don't you?

 

The head gasket you're looking for is the one steel one off the Sharan, p/n 021 103 383 N £41.86 + VAT when I got mine 27th Oct last year.

[Tekara 0]

If your going to embark on the doing chains, clutch etc then its not a great deal more work to re-con the head. As you've pointed out the usual valve seals begin to go, but dont overlook possible HG failure. I replaced the chains and clutch, then 10k later the HG went and the value seals were still good.

 

Do it all then you know you can drive the car as you like :D

 

As for what type of Head Gasket to get, just go for the standard and save on cost, that is unless you plan to go FI at later date. Thats the advice Vince gave me when i did mine.

[Yandards 0]

Well you know what my view will be .......... do it all this time around. At least you will know it has all been done. A bit of piece of mind too knowing something else wont go wrong not too many miles down the road. You will have it all apart anyway so you might aswell :)

 

Just my 2p's worth. :)

 

Exactly.

[Toad 0]

I know it would make more sense to do the complete job now, but one thing I thought was that if the head gasket goes, then the engine can stay in to do it. Although admitedly I do have concerns about it...

 

Guess I'll just have to see how money is in January, but I've a funny feeling that I'll do the whole lot. No point in doing things half arsed eh?

 

Cheers for all the information. Anyone got any further suggestions for work?

 

Can't really afford to buy higher spec components either :( I had hoped to be able to afford a Shrick and some cams but can't...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The MK4 12V metal gasket seals better than the old fibre one. Most manufacturers have moved over to that style of gasket now.

 

The half point hike in compression ratio won't do much, maybe improve low rpm responsiveness slightly. It won't harm the engine as the knock sensors will protect it. So personally I'd use that gasket as it's about the same price as the older style one.

 

Regardless of gasket type used though, I find VR6s often seep oil slightly from the gasket around cylinder 1 because the head isn't clamped down as tightly there, (and is also where the block's ball and spring oil valve is), and also around the chain cover. So I use Permatex copper gasket adhesive spray which is designed to seal up Head gaskets and it seems to stop the leaking.

 

If the head has done 140K, chances are the guides may need replacing, so check for valve rock when the head is off. Just putting new seals over worn guides will put you back to square one again after a few hundred miles, so it's a false economy.

 

You'll be wanting to use the MK4 upper pad and tensioner too ;-)

 

When you restart it, disconnect the crank sensor, pull the plugs and turn it for 30 seconds to build up oil pressure in the tensioner, otherwise the chain will remain slack when the valve springs push the cam round naturally, which can lead to tooth skipping. Seen that happen all too many times :lol:

[Toad 0]

The MK4 12V metal gasket seals better than the old fibre one. Most manufacturers have moved over to that style of gasket now.

 

The half point hike in compression ratio won't do much, maybe improve low rpm responsiveness slightly. It won't harm the engine as the knock sensors will protect it. So personally I'd use that gasket as it's about the same price as the older style one.

 

Is that the one that has been mentioned already? Could you post a part No. please?

 

 

If the head has done 140K, chances are the guides may need replacing, so check for valve rock when the head is off. Just putting new seals over worn guides will put you back to square one again after a few hundred miles, so it's a false economy.

 

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, just as well get the head rebuilt completely. My 16v head was about £300, so the VR should be slightly less.

 

Is there anyway to check the bottom end without stripping it?

[Jim Bowen 1]

at what point do people toss up the options of fully rebuilding the VR6 or doing a 24v conversion, its something i been thinking about recentely.

 

is there an average guide cost of each option? pros & cons?

 

i spose it would be nice to have a fully rebuilt vr6 than a 2nd hand 24v

[Toad 0]

at what point do people toss up the options of fully rebuilding the VR6 or doing a 24v conversion, its something i been thinking about recentely.

 

is there an average guide cost of each option? pros & cons?

 

i spose it would be nice to have a fully rebuilt vr6 than a 2nd hand 24v

 

To be honest, I didn't even consider a 24v, I am guessing that the clutch and chains, and a head rebuild are going to cost £800 and then it's my labour for free.

 

That money would get me a long way toward a 24v engine, but I can't be arsed with the hassle. The VR is just a runaround for me, and all I want is reliability, and the occasional smile on my face.

 

Hopefuly with the engine sorted and most of the suspension rebuilt or replaced there won't be too many things left to break... It's never going to be a show & shine winner, but I want to get to the state where all my spare cash can go into an ABF turbo engine for my 16v

 

Going to replace wishbones etc whilst i'm at it too...

[-Neil- 0]

ive been thinking of this as i think i need a top end rebuild, (blue smoke coming out of exhaust).

 

can anyone give me any ideas how much a top end rebuild has or might cost me? I mean, would it be £500 or more towards £1000?

 

I would be trying to do as much work as possible myself so labour shouldnt be a huge problem. Its just the parts and chains and stuff (not entirly sure what needs replacing)

[dukest 0]

Vince has quoted 750 + Vat for a head rebuild (including fitting afaik) and 1400 incl. for clutch, chains and head rebuild.

[Lizard Racing 0]

at what point do people toss up the options of fully rebuilding the VR6 or doing a 24v conversion, its something i been thinking about recentely.

 

Hit the nail on the head I reckon.

[fla 9]

looking at the 24V thread its a longer term project and a potentially higher cost as much of it needs to be done bespoke as well as issues in setting up etc. I had considered it prior to my rebuild, but i was restricted by time and i STILL havent finished my car yet. If i had gone down the 24V route, i might still be at the stage of just pulling the engine out!

[Funkster 0]

I rebuilt my VR at 163K, but I didn't replace the valve guides as I clocked them all up as per the Bentley book, and they were all well within wear limits. I just lapped the seats back in and put new stem seals on.

 

I also had it bored out due to (what I thought was) horrible piston slap, but all that cash for new pistons and it still sounds the same! It's probably the little ends, but I'm too lazy to tear it all apart again so it'll stay rattly.

 

I would vote for new chains + clutch and maybe fit new stem seals without removing the head.

 

fwiw,

--

Olly

[mariojoshi 1]

If you're planning on keeping the car for a while longer, I'd do the whole lot, personally.

 

When I called stealth the other day they said £1500 all in...... I guess that's inflation then ;)