VR Mods to hit 215bhp?

[Fanjita 1]

Hi all,

 

I partially mentioned this in another thread, but i was hoping you may be able to shed some light on this for me. Over christmas i spent a lot of money fitting a refurbed/ported/polished head along with some other mods.

 

In 2005 the vr went on the dyno and registered a healthy 198bhp, with a chip and induction kit fitted.

 

Now i have fitted:

 

Magnex Cat-Back

De-cat

6-Branch Mani

 

new plugs, magnecor leads, other small mods.

 

It went back on the rollers a few weeks ago, but unfortunately it's now hitting 188bhp, so im a tad confused. i am pretty confident that the mechanics of the engine are now tip top, but i cannot explain why this is low.

 

It's possible the chip is a bit crappy and needs swapping back to original, despite the gains they got from it 2 years ago.

 

My question is, with a remap is it possible to get around the 210bhp mark or are there other mods needed to get there?

 

Probably best aimed at people already at that power level, but anyone in the know i'd really appreciate it!

[Jim 2]

I guess it just goes to show that tuning an engine can be a somewhat unpredictable experience sometimes..

 

Perhaps some different cams, a Schrick (or VWM) variable intake manifold and a remap would easily get you there.... would be a fairly expensive combo but would give good power gains.

[boost monkey 0]

Yeah, i'd hazard that a branched manifold and a full exhaust system would net you around 10ish hp, depending on the specifics.

[pete_griff 0]

there is also the question of how well the head has been sorted out...

 

there are lots of so called "experts" out there when it comes to properly flowing a head. quite simply the only way you can achieve proper power gains on a head is with a flow bench and a good deal of time spent testing/adjusting. it is a very time consuming labour intesive process - good for large power gains when it's done correctly as it lets the engine breathe so much more effectively.

 

however there are lots of people ouot there who will just take a grinder to the ports, smooth/open them out a bit and then tell you that the head has been correctly ported/polished. This is complete bollards. If it's not done correctly, then porting/polishing a head can actually reduce the flow and lose you power.

 

(Not saying you've been ripped off or anything to that end), but if i were you i'd check with the garage you bought the head off and ask them exactly what work occurred and where it was done, as if there isn't a flow bench there, then i would question what the money you paid them has gone towards.

 

i'm no expert, but i'm fairly sure that if the head has been ported/polished correctly, you should immediately see power gains, no matter what state of tune the car is in - yes it will require a remap, but i would have thought you should still see a gain over previous power readings no matter what...

 

a good site to read about cylinder head porting is http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/

dave baker really does know his stuff, not sure if he does vw heads like the vr6, but i don't see why not...

 

hope that helps

[dinkus 10]

If nothing has changed otherwise your 10bhp difference could be due to any/all/combination of:

 

Creative rolling road figures (they fudge a number to come up with the crank bhp and they can fiddle it a bit)

Tyre pressures (run them higher and you'll get better figures)

Air temperature (the colder it is, the denser the air, thus the better the engine runs)

 

The probelm is, the standard VR lump breathes pretty well anyway, so you have to do a fairly hefty amount of work to it in order to get more power. The Shrick VGI and some 268 cams will make a noticable difference to how it drives, extending your peak torque down to 3k rpm and up to 5k but it won't actually give you all that much more overall power (>50bhp) and set you back a good £1,200 if you buy second hand.

 

But then do you want real-world drivability and grunt, or rolling road figures for the pub? :)

[dr_mat 0]

Didn't we already talk about this? And isn't your VR overfuelling at high revs?

[Jim Bowen 1]

how does it drive? thats the main thing,

 

i tend to ignore numbers, especially bhp from rolling roads, had you noticed 10bhp disappearing before you got it on rolling road

 

whats saying it'll be a 5% better car with 215bhp?

[dr_mat 0]

Not to mention the fact that just occasionally a totally unmodified 2.9 VR6 has been known to hit 215bhp on the rollers while the engine was barely warm.. (The same engine produced 202bhp once it was fully warm.)

Inter-car variability, not to mention weather condition related variability, is so great that there is little point in worrying about this stuff. By all means make modifications, then compare to how it was before .. but don't aim for a number and then when you get there wonder why you can't tell on the road..

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Didn't we already talk about this? And isn't your VR overfuelling at high revs?

 

That's typical behaviour of a dead cam sensor.

[jamminvr6storm 0]

As above... Schrick inlet and 268's are the best bet, although to keep costs down just try the cams first cos if your head has been done propperly (again not saying it hasnt) then this *should* aid the cams at the top end.

 

Thing is for the same money as the inlet and cams you can have a Vortech SC.....

[Guest]

Mine has only ever been chipped with a re-map as far as I now and can see, its quoted at 212.4 bhp. The previous owner never mentioned and there is nothing to suggest that any mods were removed after it was on the rolling road. So to answer your question it is possible but like dinkus said there are lots of variables affecting the figures. Just go for mods that make for a better drive or a nicer sound.

[Mark_Storm 0]

The schrick inlet manifold makes very little difference to the power. With the schrick fitted, a k&n panel filter, 6 branch, decat & magnex I was only getting 200bhp. Schrick cams & a remap took it to 220bhp.

[herisites 0]

Didn't we already talk about this? And isn't your VR overfuelling at high revs?

 

That's typical behaviour of a dead cam sensor.

 

My thoughts exactly. Im sure i have heard this before, a vr has healthy power one day then next its down on power by quite a bit (would be by quite a bit with the mods it has) and it nearly always turns out to be the cam sensor.

 

Either way i think they are low figures so something isn't right, my vr got 203bhp and 196lb/ft standard with, at the time, 130k! Its a bit more now mind :wink: I think you need to get it on VAG-COM (diagnostics) and check its not something like cam sensor etc.

 

And with regards to shrick manifold and cams, imho i would just save a bit more and get a supercharger if you want proper power figures! As mentioned you will get the manifold and cams for about £1,200 2nd hand and probably get 220-230bhp max most likely whereas you could probably get a 2nd hand Vortech charger ready to bolt on for around £1600 and get 300bhp :wink: would be charger for me every day of the week.

[dr_mat 0]

Aw, come on don't suggest you can get a supercharger up to 300bhp for £1600. You can't, just not possible unless you fit and tune it all up yourself.

The beauty of cams and inlet is the simple fitting and forget-about-it aspect. You'll never have that with a supercharger unless you were born with a spanner in your hand..

[herisites 0]

Aw, come on don't suggest you can get a supercharger up to 300bhp for £1600. You can't, just not possible unless you fit and tune it all up yourself.

The beauty of cams and inlet is the simple fitting and forget-about-it aspect. You'll never have that with a supercharger unless you were born with a spanner in your hand..

 

Ok maybe a tad off with £1600 but not by alot as fitting the supercharger is simple, it just bolts on to the side of your engine and runs off the pullies, if you go rotrex you dont need to tap into the sump etc as they have their own oil supply and Storm sell a ready to go custom fuel pressure regulator that you can fit and use with a charger up to about 8 psi (knocking on 280bhp) that requires no ecu mapping. So not entirely impossible but i suppose you would need some knowledge of how a spanner works, although i started without a clue and now im pretty useful with a spanner and its all down to help from the forum!

[dirtytorque 0]

Aw, come on don't suggest you can get a supercharger up to 300bhp for £1600. You can't, just not possible unless you fit and tune it all up yourself.

The beauty of cams and inlet is the simple fitting and forget-about-it aspect. You'll never have that with a supercharger unless you were born with a spanner in your hand..

 

Ok maybe a tad off with £1600 but not by alot as fitting the supercharger is simple, it just bolts on to the side of your engine and runs off the pullies, if you go rotrex you dont need to tap into the sump etc as they have their own oil supply and Storm sell a ready to go custom fuel pressure regulator that you can fit and use with a charger up to about 8 psi (knocking on 280bhp) that requires no ecu mapping. So not entirely impossible but i suppose you would need some knowledge of how a spanner works, although i started without a clue and now im pretty useful with a spanner and its all down to help from the forum!

 

 

.. and what about bottom end work?

Did you not have to lower your compression to charge your steed?

[mrbeige 0]

Aw, come on don't suggest you can get a supercharger up to 300bhp for £1600. You can't, just not possible unless you fit and tune it all up yourself.

The beauty of cams and inlet is the simple fitting and forget-about-it aspect. You'll never have that with a supercharger unless you were born with a spanner in your hand..

 

Ok maybe a tad off with £1600 but not by alot as fitting the supercharger is simple, it just bolts on to the side of your engine and runs off the pullies, if you go rotrex you dont need to tap into the sump etc as they have their own oil supply and Storm sell a ready to go custom fuel pressure regulator that you can fit and use with a charger up to about 8 psi (knocking on 280bhp) that requires no ecu mapping. So not entirely impossible but i suppose you would need some knowledge of how a spanner works, although i started without a clue and now im pretty useful with a spanner and its all down to help from the forum!

 

 

.. and what about bottom end work?

Did you not have to lower your compression to charge your steed?

 

Toad says;

 

The standard VR Engine can take a little boost it would seem. However, the apparent ball ache of getting a supercharger VR running properly should be taken into consideration. How many owners of supercharged VR6s are completely happy with the way the car runs? I'm not having a dig at them, but I want a car that's gonna start and idle and run with factory smoothness, hence my decision to look to shrick, cams and remap. Mind you. I'm not after massive power from the car. Just enough to get me from my house to work on time ;)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Aw, come on don't suggest you can get a supercharger up to 300bhp for £1600. You can't, just not possible unless you fit and tune it all up yourself.

The beauty of cams and inlet is the simple fitting and forget-about-it aspect. You'll never have that with a supercharger unless you were born with a spanner in your hand..

 

People have done 400+hp VR6 Ts for less than that.

[dr_mat 0]

Aw, come on don't suggest you can get a supercharger up to 300bhp for £1600. You can't, just not possible unless you fit and tune it all up yourself.

 

People have done 400+hp VR6 Ts for less than that.

 

I don't doubt that it's possible. But did they get a garage to do it for them? I very much doubt that.. For the average punter coming into this gig you'd have to be insanely lucky to get a working supercharger setup for that money.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Garage prices would be about 10 times that; to do properly!

 

Those who put the work in reap the rewards :lol:

[Rob_B 0]

Garage prices would be about 10 times that; to do properly!

 

Those who put the work in reap the rewards :lol:

 

very true my firend, very true. even more so with these cars