Corrado passive rear steering questions

[sciroccotune 0]

Hi ALL!!

 

Long time no see! Hows everyone..

 

I have a quick question, i have posted on CGTI but its about Corrados so i have come back to see you all.

 

I was reading an article about the new Scirocco today and the article mentioned a few of the reasons that the Corrado failed to sell well and why it was so expensive. One this they mentioned was the passive rear steering.

 

Now we have all heard of this and i always put it down to the rear top mounts but the article mentioned that this was down to

 

'expensive toe adjusting bearings' that 'adjusted to match the front steering angles based on loading'

 

Now the interesting thing here is that i have had a Corrado, 3 Golfs and 6 Sciroccos and i have always used the same rear bearings from GSF or ECP listed as golf1/2

 

have i been getting the wrong rear bearings all these years? Have all of us Corrado owners lived a lie?

 

Further to this i have been looking on the ECP site and basically all rear bushes are listed for golf also, e.g

 

620440640 GOLF/JETTA MK2 RR AXLE BUSH GOLF/JETTA MK2 84-92 £14.65

 

and

 

REPLACEMEN n/a 610440690 RUBBER STOP-LOWER PO/GO2/3/JE2/VE/CO

Lower bearing ring

£4.37

DANSK n/a 610440700 RUBBER STOP-UPPER PO/GO2/3/JE2/VE/CO

Upper bearing ring

 

 

SO whats the crack? Surely the rear of a corrado is meant to belong to the passat but i cant find any mention of it. Have ECP been selling the wrong parts for years?

[yeti 0]

i think they have corrado confused with prelude! the rear beam (in full view missing all rear wheels and brakes on my drive atm is solid and the hubs bolt to that, the stubs bolt to the hubs and golf mk2 or 3 styleee taper bearing press into the discs before being fitted...

 

another bobbins reference on the corrado i think... I did hear on a post on this forum in the past few weeks tha tthe Corrado sold in todays money for £37k! bloody hell! maybe thats why it didnt sell!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

'expensive toe adjusting bearings' that 'adjusted to match the front steering angles based on loading'

 

That's just marketing cobblers.

 

The Corrado's "Rear steer" comes from the flexible rubber bushes in the rear axle!

Hardly the last word in sophistication :D

 

VW just made a big song and dance about it with the Corrado, but they're exactly the same bushes the Golf used.

 

The Corrado was expensive, because, it just was! :D Being hand made didn't help with the costs, and neither did developing the extremely pointless 2.9 version of the VR6 engine. New manifold, new throttle, bigger pistons, revised software etc etc.... it all adds up. The G60 was not a cheap engine for such a low volume car either.

And.....90% of the interior is unique to the Corrado.....as is the exterior.

 

If you think about it, VW were ahead of their time..... the Corrado was designed in the 80s don't forget...... electrical spoilers, narrow angle V6s, Supercharged engines etc etc.... pretty cutting edge at the time.....and expensive.

[was8v 0]

'expensive toe adjusting bearings' that 'adjusted to match the front steering angles based on loading'

 

I guess the rubber rear axle bush will allow it to do that to a certain extent. But you are right its the same part as a mk2/mk3 etc.

 

I always wondered why the corrado handling is held in such high regard when both the front and rear suspension are the same as MK3 Golf. The Mk3 is lamented for being a poor member of the family yet the Corrado is top.

 

It must literally be just to do with the lower centre of gravity of a corrado and different driving position? I've never driven any MK3 golf in anger btw, I've had a few MK2 GTIs which are fun but just don't have the same amount of grip as a Corrado.

[Leonard 0]

And at the time you could get a 944 for the same sort of money. Couldnt see too many Sciroccos being sold today if you could get a Cayman for the same money :grin:

 

Chassis cannnot be entirely same as Mk3 surely? I have never experienced a Mk3 exhibit the same sort of tail out behviour as the C???

[dr_mat 0]

I always wondered why the corrado handling is held in such high regard when both the front and rear suspension are the same as MK3 Golf. The Mk3 is lamented for being a poor member of the family yet the Corrado is top.

 

It must literally be just to do with the lower centre of gravity of a corrado and different driving position?

 

I think it's balance and steering feel are the key factors of the Corrado that make it different from the Golfs of the era. How they did that .. probably a combination of lower centre of gravity, more weight, harder bushings, agricultural steering design ..

[davidwort 0]

there's quite a few subtle differences to the corrado when compared to the mk2 and 3 golf even though a lot of the running gear and individual components are shared, in fact the same is true of the equivalent generation passat. Some of the motoring magazines put the handling of the Corrado down to the higher pressure specified for the tyres, but I think there's a bit more to it than that.

Although the floorplan is essentially mk2 golf, the rear hatch opening structure, roof and the pillars are of course significantly different and the seats are positioned lower and possibly further back than in a mk2, the whole car is quite a bit heavier with a much heavier tailgate and bonnet, possibly the front/rear weight distribution is different to a mk2 or mk3.

Then roll bars and springs are different specs, it all adds up.

[andy 0]

tail out behviour as the C???

 

Tail out behaviour? What are you doing to it? :nono:

Never ever experienced anything close to tail out action from a Corrado.

[davidwort 0]

tail out behviour as the C???

 

Tail out behaviour? What are you doing to it? :nono:

Never ever experienced anything close to tail out action from a Corrado.

 

100mph down a twisty lane with shot rear axle bushes and it might feel a bit funny, but I've never got the back end to do anything either, you've got to be either incredibly stupid or hit diesel or something to loose a Corrado on the twisty bits.

[Leonard 0]

tail out behviour as the C???

 

Tail out behaviour? What are you doing to it? :nono:

Never ever experienced anything close to tail out action from a Corrado.

 

It has pretty good lift off oversteer! And if you brake late and turn in early you can have all sorts of fun! Not quite as good as a 205 Gti but not bad for a big old girl :clap:

[pete_griff 0]

hey all just my 2p from what i know...

 

the corrado is a naturally understeery car, as VW set up nearly all their cars like that to eire on the side of caution for the everyday driver as they don't want people unwittingly oversteering through hedges!

 

like mr cheesewire says any rear steer would be gleaned from the flexibility in the bushes and nowhere else - anything about toe-adjustable bearings etc is cobblers, they are fixed on the stub axle and the stub axle is fixed to the rear arm with no room for movement anywhere. even then there's really not much difference you would notice from those bushes as the amount they would actually allow passive rear steer is not much.

 

it is possible to get the tail out on a standard rado, but only when being silly - i've only managed it a few times and it was not intentional, just an "oh dear i'm really going too fast for this corner!" and backing off/using the anchors at the wrong time - but you really have to be going fast/doing silly things unless you fit a rear anti-roll bar etc which will make it a bit easier to get the backside out more safely lower speeds - something i have yet to experience, but soon will once i've got mine back on the road :D

 

the only car i know of (i'm sure there are more) with proper "passive" rear wheel steer is the pug 306 (and citroen zx as they use the same shell). the rear stub axles (if i remember correctly) actually had bushes on their mounts onto the rear beam, allowing them to move very slightly and track the rear of the car in relation to the front - it felt a litle weird and unsettled at first when driving a 306 hard, but once you are used to it, it's actually really nice and will allow you to take corners faster. obviously it also helps with the lots of lovely lift-off oversteer on tap with the 306 when asked for.

 

preludes, skylines (and again i'm sure a few others that i don't know about) have 4 wheel steering where they actually have pivots/mountings for track rods etc built onto the rear struts for their intended purpose. this effect is only used though when the cars are travelling at low speeds i think - they are then electronically prevented from using the rear steering over a certain speed, probably owing to stability issues.

 

not sure if that helps you any more than what other people have already said - just my 2p like i said :)

[dr_mat 0]

You want oversteer? Put nearly bald tyres on the back, go round roundabouts in the wet.. job done.. ;)

[was8v 0]

You want oversteer? Put nearly bald tyres on the back, go round roundabouts in the wet.. job done.. ;)

 

 

lol, I had a 306 with bald rear tyres, now that was fun in the wet.

 

I've never managed to unsettle the rear end on the corrado in the same way as I could my old MK2 GTI!

[dr_mat 0]

I've never managed to unsettle the rear end on the corrado in the same way as I could my old MK2 GTI!

 

You clearly have not been trying hard enough, seriously. ;) Pile into a corner, do something stupid like stamp on the brakes, and you'll be piling on opposite lock. I've run out of steering rack before now.. Easy to provoke.

[Leonard 0]

I've never managed to unsettle the rear end on the corrado in the same way as I could my old MK2 GTI!

 

You clearly have not been trying hard enough, seriously. ;) Pile into a corner, do something stupid like stamp on the brakes, and you'll be piling on opposite lock. I've run out of steering rack before now.. Easy to provoke.

 

You don't even need to be going that fast which is nice :grin:

[pete_griff 0]

other than when going silly fast an in error, i've never hammered on the anchors in the rado mid corner - clearly i will have to try this once it's all sorted! :)

 

the 306/205 that i had were great, you didn't even need to brake at all; just hammer it round a bend and lift smartly off the throttle - guaranteed smile every time :D

[nemesis360 0]

The 4ws on preludes turn the opposite way to the fronts at low speed to aid parking, at high speed they turn in the same direction as the fronts but only slightly, this makes the car very stable on motorways etc.

[latestarter2 0]

"I was reading an article about the new Scirocco today and the article mentioned a few of the reasons that the Corrado failed to sell well and why it was so expensive. One this they mentioned was the passive rear steering."

 

They also said the Corrado had a problem with timing belts?...thought they had chains? Performance Car mag report.

[kvwloon 0]

"I was reading an article about the new Scirocco today and the article mentioned a few of the reasons that the Corrado failed to sell well and why it was so expensive. One this they mentioned was the passive rear steering."

 

They also said the Corrado had a problem with timing belts?...thought they had chains? Performance Car mag report.

 

Sounds to me like Performance Car mag don't know an awful lot about performance VW's. :scratch:

[mariojoshi 1]

Surely only the VR6 has timing chains.....

[dr_mat 0]

Apparently the 16V heads also have chains - between the two cams. The main crank-cam link is a belt on all but the VR6.

[Guest]

I dont think much in the press is worth any credence anyway! its commments like "problems with timing belts" mentioned above that sum the motoring journos up really

 

they compare and summise, IF these people actually knew how to change a spark plug, knew what tdc of a 1959 buick skylark was, knew what the optimum tyre pressure was for a Nascar at indianoplis raceway, then maybe.....just maybe i would listen or give anything they write a little credence

 

There is no comaprison of the new scirroco to the old ones or the Corrado, other than they wear a vw badge and are coupe`s

 

The "rear wheel steer" as said is more of a characteristic of the Corrado than a design feature, its just down to where the axle is in comparrison to the wheels where it is mounted, and the weight distribution/wheelsbase of the car

 

I find the corrado to be the best handling Dub i have owned, and that includes VR6 golf, a Rallye and numerous mk1`s, i find it is predictable and wherever you aim it through a corner %99 of the time its where it goes, very stable and brilliant grip (on mine anyway)

 

I dont think the suggestion of slamming brakes on mid corner in any car! is a very wise thing to do, save it for a track!!!!

[Danny B 0]

I read the performance car mag article aswell and was a bit baffled by some of the statements.....it was the first time I have bought it and the last, the whole mag loved every car it reviewed practically.....me thinks certain journo's get certain amounts of cash from certain manufactuers !!! :?

[Toad 0]

the corrado is a naturally understeery car, as VW set up nearly all their cars like that to eire on the side of caution for the everyday driver as they don't want people unwittingly oversteering through hedges!

 

The VR experiences a lot more understeer than the 4 cylinder models, they seem a lot better balanced.

[boost monkey 0]

Apparently the 16V heads also have chains - between the two cams. The main crank-cam link is a belt on all but the VR6.

 

He ain't lyin. cam chains for that extra special rattle :nuts: