G60 - VR6T? Possible donor car? P4

[carpoid 0]

Hi all, i'm in need of some opinions/advise here! :confused4:

 

My Corrado has been up for sale for a few weeks, but after having hardly any interest i've decided to keep it, to cut a long irelavent story short i'll just say i never wanted to sell it and will find another way to do what i wanted to do with the cash i could of sold it for. I'm suprised it didn't get snapped up, i think if it was a VR6 it would be long gone, G60s are unheard of here let alone Corrados.

 

The thing is, if i lived in the UK i probably would of sold it to get a VR6 by now, i kind of wish i did go for the VR, i love the noise they make and it would of been nice to have that updated interior, and now i've been reading alot about VRTs it makes me want one even more :scratch:

 

So, if i want a Corrado VR6T i really only have one option, put a VR6 engine in my G60. :grin: Although it would be a 2.8 out of a Golf. :camp: I'm thinking i could get hold of a VR engine and take my time rebuilding it whilst its out of the car, and prepare it for some force feeding at the same time :norty: I'm thinking that to build a reliable VR6T i would need to replace/upgrade alot of it anyway, including the gearbox and driveshafts. i wouldn't want to just bolt on a Kinetics kit, i would go for most of the Schimmel gear with a GT30 or 35 turbo.

 

I guess my questions are really what else would i need to convert my G60 to a VR6, or, do you think i should get over it and just get some more power out of the G60 because it would be too much hassle.

 

What i can't get my head around is the elecrical side of things, how complicated would that be? If i was going from VR6 to VR6T would all of that need changing anyway? What exactly is OBD2?? :confused4:

 

Can anyone help?

[RaddoMan 0]

i would just keep the G60 and stop dreaming

[Kevin Bacon 5]

What are the roads like around Byron Bay? If they're long, fast roads, I'd go straight to the GT35R 8) If your roads are smaller and faster spool time is more important, then either the GT3071R or the GT3076R would be my choice.

 

'OBD' is the governing body behind 'On Board Diagnostics' and '2' is the current version. It's a set of standards engine ECUs have to have in order to pass certain emissions. OBD2 has been around since 1996 but has been revised and improved many times over. OBD1 was ~1992 to 1996 and far less sophisticated.

OBD2 is better for forced induction but OBD1 is perfectly usable.

 

Anyway, you don't need any of that nonsense. You're in Australia, the home of Motec :notworthy: Seriously, you could not be in a better country for forced induction expertise and quality parts. Get all the hardware from Schimmel, use Speedflow fittings (also Australian) and get a Motec mapped locally and it will kick arse!!

 

Gearbox is OK up to 400 flywheel power, 350 flywheel torque. Ditto driveshafts and CVs. 400 onwards will cause regular wheel spinning (even with an LSD) and that is what will destroy gears and CVs etc. 1st to 4th all shatter quite easily when pushing the big numbers. O2M gearbox from the MK4 V6s, gearset from SQS or Gemini are options there.

 

Go for it!

[Walesy 0]

Either way i'm glad to hear you're not selling it, it seemed like a crazy thing to do all things considered 8)

[_leon_ 0]

Good choice to keep it. Means mine wouldn't be the only one driving round NSW if that ever happens! Plus it looks a superb example - hold onto it.

 

Were you not considering 24v? Are high temperatures a concern there in Queensland?

[carpoid 0]

What are the roads like around Byron Bay? If they're long, fast roads, I'd go straight to the GT35R 8) If your roads are smaller and faster spool time is more important, then either the GT3071R or the GT3076R would be my choice.

 

'OBD' is the governing body behind 'On Board Diagnostics' and '2' is the current version. It's a set of standards engine ECUs have to have in order to pass certain emissions. OBD2 has been around since 1996 but has been revised and improved many times over. OBD1 was ~1992 to 1996 and far less sophisticated.

OBD2 is better for forced induction but OBD1 is perfectly usable.

 

Anyway, you don't need any of that nonsense. You're in Australia, the home of Motec :notworthy: Seriously, you could not be in a better country for forced induction expertise and quality parts. Get all the hardware from Schimmel, use Speedflow fittings (also Australian) and get a Motec mapped locally and it will kick arse!!

 

quote]

 

Thanks for your reply Wireman, the roads around here are very similar to Sufolk B roads but there are alot more hills, very windy and small, but i'm also pretty much right on the main Pacific Highway which is long smooth and fast all the way up to Queensland (about an hour away). So ireally need to compromise between GT30 and GT35 :norty:

 

OBD all makes sense now, am i right in thinking its not just the ECU and that its just about the whole engine loom that would be needed to convert from OBD1 to OBD2? :scratch:

 

Its great to know i'm in the right place for FI quality parts, i have heard of Motec, but i've never seen the words Motec and VW in the same sentence, i thought their gear would only suit Skylines etc, which there are plenty of over here. If i was to use Motec gear would that mean using one of their ECUs, then having some sort of custom loom made up for the VR6 engine, or would it just be using the OBD1 set up :scratch: Elecrical things still baffle me a bit, but, i work next door to an auto elecrician so they are going to be very helpful :clap: Or annoyed with me quizing them constantly :lol:

 

Thanks Walesman, glad it didn't sell tbh, new cars are boring, i'd rather make this one into what i really want :norty:

[Rob_B 0]

Vr6 turbos are awesome! build it build it build it! i bet you will not be disappointed!

however, to really confirm how awesome they are, i need a ride in 1, so if anyone wants to obligue.... :wave:

[corozin 0]

Frankly if you're starting from a G60 it would make a lot more sense to upgrade to a 20vt rather than do the VR6 conversion. You'll have potentially the same power and will I suspect spend a lot less getting there.

 

If you're going to all the trouble to swapping the G60 for a VR6 you might as well not piss about and look for a 24v 2.8 rather than a 12v. Especially if you're going to turbo the thing later.

 

Just my 2p.

[Rob_B 0]

i can confirm the the 20vt turbo conversion is awesome though! forced induction is a must either way!

the g60 is good, but nothing compared to a turbo motor in my opinion

[_leon_ 0]

Certainly finding a low mileage 24v you can use immediately would be easier to locate than a 12v. But depends on what you want. You're effectively breaking the integrity anyway so doesn't technically matter once the g60 comes out. Carpoid, are there many 4motions and the like in Aus? I recall reading there are very few r32s. Anyway, if you can afford it, do what the heart says for once and go for it :) a VRT is a good bit more special than a 1.8T - though I'm sure you could be happy with either

[rado-steve 0]

Frankly if you're starting from a G60 it would make a lot more sense to upgrade to a 20vt rather than do the VR6 conversion. You'll have potentially the same power and will I suspect spend a lot less getting there.

 

If you're going to all the trouble to swapping the G60 for a VR6 you might as well not piss about and look for a 24v 2.8 rather than a 12v. Especially if you're going to turbo the thing later.

 

Just my 2p.

 

Just what I was thinking.......1.8T the thing or why not turbo your G60 lump???? I'm sure Jabba sport do a turbo kit for the G60 using an IHI VF22 turbo that easily ups the power past 300bhp!!! Better than using that expensive boat anchor called a VR6 :lol: :ignore:

 

Or as a few others have mentioned 24V it if you're going to 6 cylinders or even R32 it! My mate has an R32 Turbo wthat has a whisker under 500bhp (once he uprates the gearbox it should safely push 600bhp) and it is stupidly fast...like lambo and porka killing performance!!!! Awesome Awesome Weapon :norty:

 

Seriously though I'd either turbo your G60 or 1.8T it!

[carpoid 0]

Thanks for your replys guys 8) i'm aware that the logical thing to do would be to put a 20VT in it, it would be cheaper and easier, it would be powerful enough and i was almost hoping that someone might convince me to do it in a way, hence te questions, but i think my mind is set on the grunt of a VR6T, you just can't beat the noise they make and it is for me i'd prefer to have an engine that is of the same era and one the Corrado was sold with originally 8) I just don't get excited about 20VTs, sorry!!

 

I did think about 24V but they are alot harder to come by in Australia, (no Golf V6 4Mo's here only Bora 4 Mo and 200 R32's) and when they do appear they can be pretty pricey, i'm just not convinced that its worth doing, seems like alot of work for not a whole lot more power, i can appreciate thir benefits but not for me :nono:

 

2.8l VR6 Golf engines are fairly easy to get hold of here, ALOT cheaper too, perfect engine for Turboing, sound awesome, perfect for Turbo action especially now more people are doing it and sussing out how to make them reliable etc. Its just going to be hard to get other larger parts for the conversion like sub frame, steering rack etc.... :brickwall:

 

Cheers 8)

[CoxyLaad 0]

point to note, vr turbo engines do not sound like NA VR6's especially if you use a short runner.

 

thats not to say they don't sound good though!

[_leon_ 0]

its worth noting the cost of building up a VRT - it can vary but I've heard on a number of occasions 3-5k all in... I'm sure its possible to do for less however

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I just don't get excited about 20VTs, sorry!!

 

No, me neither and my other car is a 1.8T :lol:

 

I did think about 24V but they are alot harder to come by in Australia, (no Golf V6 4Mo's here only Bora 4 Mo and 200 R32's) and when they do appear they can be pretty pricey, i'm just not convinced that its worth doing, seems like alot of work for not a whole lot more power, i can appreciate thir benefits but not for me :nono:

 

It's your decision but there are plenty of 500whp+ 12V turbos kicking about in America. It's a well proven and robust platform for turboing and there is an abundance of well priced turbo parts available for it.

 

This topic can easily head down the X versus Y versus Z road but for what it's worth, my 2p on the alternatives:-

 

1.8Ts - Not a bad engine for what it is, but try building a 500whp 1.8T for the same money as a 500whp 12V T :D. Spacer plate a 12V, stick a GT35R to the back of it, map it and drive off with 500whp and 100whp in reserve, all on the stock internals. Try that with a 1.8T. It'll spit it's standard rods and valves out of the block past 350 crank power....and that's assuming you've spent the money on a GT28RS and a better manifold to begin with. Powerful and reliable 1.8Ts are not the cheap and easy conversion people make them out to be, but if you're aiming for modest power and don't hanker after a 6 cylinder noise, then it's not a bad choice. Although if it were me, I'd take a Honda VTEC turbo over a 1.8T any day!

 

24Vs - I have a 2.8 24V in my garage as a long term turbo project but they are a lot more money to turbo (properly) than a 12V. Partly because fewer companies make parts for it so pricing isn't competetive yet and partly because as you say, you can get a schitt load of power out of the 12V reliably, so the demand for 24V Ts isn't high at the moment. But the 24V's ace up it's sleeve is the Cosworth designed head, which flows loads more than the 12V's. You'll get more power from a 24V T for the same boost, but if the answer is to simply turn up the boost on a 12V, is the extra cost justified?

My reasons for going 24V are mainly ones of refinement, but I'll keep you posted on that.

 

2.8l VR6 Golf engines are fairly easy to get hold of here, ALOT cheaper too, perfect engine for Turboing, sound awesome, perfect for Turbo action especially now more people are doing it and sussing out how to make them reliable etc. Its just going to be hard to get other larger parts for the conversion like sub frame, steering rack etc.... :brickwall:

 

Indeed. If you blow a 12V up, stick another one in, they're not exactly scarce or expensive s/hand :D

 

Your best bet is to get a complete Golf VR6 and transfer everything over mate!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

point to note, vr turbo engines do not sound like NA VR6's especially if you use a short runner.

 

It's the deep warbling you get from a 3" exhaust at idle that does it for me. It's a noise only a 6 pot turbo can make :D

[_leon_ 0]

Decision settled then ? :)

[carpoid 0]

Pretty much yes :D I honestly can't think of anything i'd like more than a VR6T in it. Not only the end result but they look like a really good project to get stuck into, i'd really enjoy building one. Its got to be the way forward for me, like i said i would love a VR6 and kinda wish i'd bought one instead of the G60, but this way i get to keep my car on the road whilst taking my time to collect parts and build the engine up slowly. If i had a VR i'd end up taking the car off the road to rebuild/upgrade just about eveerything for FI anyway.

 

Time to find an old VR6 engine and start from there i think :grin:

[big ben 10]

wahaay, you wont regret it!!! 8)

[carpoid 0]

Sure i won't from what i've seen and heard :)

 

What are the specs on yours Ben, couldn't seem to find much on it....

[_leon_ 0]

Should be a nice project! Good stuff! :)

[big ben 10]

Sure i won't from what i've seen and heard :)

 

What are the specs on yours Ben, couldn't seem to find much on it....

 

its a secret :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

only jokin!!

 

its got a left hand drive EIP turbo kit, which has a T3/T4 turbo. the engine has been raised an inch on spacers :shock: but the handling is still fine!! its got the usual 9:1 headgasket compression, ARP bolts etc, and running a dump valve (which is being replaced by a diverter valve soon), has C2 software running it, peolquin diff, intercooler in the bumper (which is too small really and in aussie land i would get a charge cooler tbh to keep temps nice and low), big injectors, 4 inch MAF, 3 inch staright through jetex with 1 silencer, boost controller/gauge, helix stage 3 clutch, VF engineering engine mounts (which are quite hard in fairness, would like them softer) and reconditioned gear box...

 

think thats it, but probly stuff i have forgotten or got wrong :scratch:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Pretty much yes :D I honestly can't think of anything i'd like more than a VR6T in it.

 

Good, glad to hear it :D

 

SNIP: EIP turbo kit, which has a T3/T4 turbo. the engine has been raised an inch on spacers :shock:

 

Hmmm, that is a less than elegant solution to a simple problem!

 

and running a dump valve (which is being replaced by a diverter valve soon),

 

Shameless sales pitch but I have a beaut of a diverter valve for sale :lol: . It's a big fella for big flow to prevent compressor stalling. I used it for a shortwhile when I ran the C2 software - http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/conten ... t=FMDVSUPR

 

As you know, you shouldn't use a DV on MAF engines, but let me know if you want / need it :wink:

 

3 inch staright through jetex with 1 silencer,

 

How do you find that? I am tempted by a 3" system but am put off by the potential droning noise they can make on the motorway, cruising at 70-80. Stainless when it gets really hot has a tendency to boom and with only 1 silencer with no resonators and 3" bore, it's exacerbated. I wish there were more VRTs near me for comparison! Is yours quiet? I don't mean stock quiet, but no horrid booming at 3000rpm etc?

 

VF engineering engine mounts (which are quite hard in fairness, would like them softer)

 

I've used the VF mounts myself and imo the Vibratechnics mounts are a much nicer compromise between refinement and holding the motor securely :D

[big ben 10]

i know the spacer thing is mad :cuckoo: its the phirm to?? and i now know that it should have a dump valve on it, cant wait to get it off now!!!

 

i find my car very quiet with normal driving, even at 80, no horrid boom at all, very calming almost :grin:

 

its even quiet at high revs because all you can hear is the screamer pipe :lol: (think thats what the guys called it)... my turbo is VERY loud, air rushing about at everything, nothing suttle about it

 

and might look into new mounts one day, but im changing/spending enough on it as it is (well next month it starts)

 

where abouts are you then kev?? your more than welcome to have a go/listen... and i have had a quote price together for all my bits at DG so am just going with it but thanks for the offer

[carpoid 0]

I'd like to hear one with and without a short runner, yours doesn't have a short runner does it Ben? They look like an awesome setup with the chargecooler right next to it.