performance of 24V vs 12V with 262/3/4s?

[fla 9]

Just a thought - the main difference i understand between the performance of the 24V and the 12V is the availability of torque from very low down. So how would a 12V with 262/3/4 cams plus a remap compare with a 24V?

btw, I do like the sound of a 12V compared to the 24V :salute:

[coullstar 0]

Try to get some power and torque graphs, that should show you. I'll dig mine out.

[dukest 0]

they make a difference Hasan but i think its still night and day from what all the 24v Corrado owners say once they've done their conversions..

 

Vag-Hag's graphs were the best with 263s as i remember, but i found a bora graph at the bottom of this page and it shows that you get virtually all of your torque by 2.5-3k revs whereas on the 12v, cams or not, its well after 4k...

 

having the schrick on mine brings it forward by about 500-750rpm but its still a different experience i think..

[coullstar 0]

Heres my graphs, it want running 100% but not far of.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I think it's just a matter of preference. 8V versus 16V, TDI versus VTEC. As Cadburys/Kraft would ask, how do you eat yours?

 

I like mine without the sugary crap in the middle and top end shove personally :D

 

The 24V does deliver it's biggest hit low down, thanks to the Variable valve timing and variable length runners, but for me, I can feel the torqye fall off again almost as quickly as it builds, which is confirmed by Coullstar's plot.

 

The 12V by comparison holds a flatter torque curve as it has no variable trickery and therefore feels more accelerative as the rpm builds. I guess it's the age old 8V vs 16V again, although ironically in this case it's the 4 valve head that has the most torque :D

[Leonard 0]

My car with VSR and 263 cams feels very similar to the 24 valves I have driven. Although my top end feels a lot more aggressive (cam profile?).

 

In fact looking at Coullstars graph my figures and curves are pretty much spot on with his as well

 

Matt

[Abdul 0]

I have no clue about the difference in terms of performance but the 12v kills the 24v in terms of noise lol. If the difference is as Kev says with the Vr being more top end heavy with a nice linear output id rather have that as imo it makes for a better drive especially if u like twistys.. i love being able to keep the valver in a certain gear and just putting my foot down round a bend as i know the power is very gradual rather than punchy (reason i personally dont like 1.8t's)...

 

Drive both, see what u like mate. The 24v conversion wont come cheap so make sure you really want it!

[coullstar 0]

I have no clue about the difference in terms of performance but the 12v kills the 24v in terms of noise lol. If the difference is as Kev says with the Vr being more top end heavy with a nice linear output id rather have that as imo it makes for a better drive especially if u like twistys.. i love being able to keep the valver in a certain gear and just putting my foot down round a bend as i know the power is very gradual rather than punchy (reason i personally dont like 1.8t's)...

 

Drive both, see what u like mate. The 24v conversion wont come cheap so make sure you really want it!

Have you heard a 4motion with a decent exhaust? Its amazing. What you said isnt quite true, its not like a TDi. There is still plenty of pull all the way up the rev range and to me is better as you dont have to be in the perfect gear when on the "twisty's". Having had both in the same car the 24v point to point on a B road will be quicker in a less frantic fashion. Top end is great for circuits or for 100mph+ but how often are you doing that, mid range punch is what it all about for me.

[herisites 0]

I have no clue about the difference in terms of performance but the 12v kills the 24v in terms of noise lol. If the difference is as Kev says with the Vr being more top end heavy with a nice linear output id rather have that as imo it makes for a better drive especially if u like twistys.. i love being able to keep the valver in a certain gear and just putting my foot down round a bend as i know the power is very gradual rather than punchy (reason i personally dont like 1.8t's)...

 

Drive both, see what u like mate. The 24v conversion wont come cheap so make sure you really want it!

Have you heard a 4motion with a decent exhaust? Its amazing. What you said isnt quite true, its not like a TDi. There is still plenty of pull all the way up the rev range and to me is better as you dont have to be in the perfect gear when on the "twisty's". Having has both in the same car the 24v point to point on a B road will be quicker in a less frantic fashion. Top end is great for circuits or for 100mph+ but how often are you doing that, mid range punch is what it all about for me.

 

I agree with that, I hated having to fill the 12v's lungs to get it going anywhere, once in the revs then yeah they're quick but the 24v (mine being in the 3.2 variety :grin:) has torque anywhere (well mine hasn't at about 2-2.5k rpm due to the random flat spot I still haven't sorted :brickwall:) and so you can progress soooo quickly without even trying.

 

And yeah, you want noise, listen to my fcuker :shock: R32 with 6-branch, no cat and Miltek cat back, it's an animal!

[Abdul 0]

No doubt they sound awesome if thats the noise u like, very raspy, not my thing... induction roar is my preference.

 

Coullstar I get what u mean about being able to be in any gear at any time and being able to floor it through a bend, makes for more effortless speeding lol but i like to really work the car, don't know why but i feel its more rewarding! I didnt say anything about it being like a Tdi, more like a 1.8T which is the best daily driver vag lump out there (on a budget) imo but also boring!

 

In all fair honesty, on a day to day basis the 24v would be more rewarding to drive for most but ive got a fetish for high revs :grin:

[coullstar 0]

Yeah I know what you mean about working the car but Ive never been a fan of that. Probably the main reason I can never ever see myself owning a VTEC (yo) type car. The Tdi comment was more aimed at the 1.8T, Ive had a few and Im not a fan.

[Abdul 0]

Yeah I know what you mean about working the car but Ive never been a fan of that. Probably the main reason I can never ever see myself owning a VTEC (yo) type car. The Tdi comment was more aimed at the 1.8T, Ive had a few and Im not a fan.

 

 

Yeah i see what u mean they are a bit tdi-ish lol.

 

I wish honda made a crazy high revving 6 pot, id be all over it!! Vtec is just lovely lol imo.

[bananawhip 0]

Another vote here for the sound of the 12v

 

Two of my friends have R32's, one with induction and exhaust, other one without, both sound pretty pants IMO...don't mean to be offensive to anyone but that 12v burble/howl is beautiful, not a big fan of tinny raspiness

 

In regards performance, mine eats the R32's up but I've thrown a fair amount of money at it obviously

 

Driving them the R32's dual mass flywheel winds me up a bit, seems to go through the gears quick but when you look at the speedo you realise you're not going as quick as you thought, saying that though they weigh 300kg more then a Rado so hardly surprising, I'm sure the 3.2 in a C is an awesome combo

[20vtvw 0]

ive got a mk4 v6 4motion as well as a vr6 rado ,and the 4mo feels much quicker than the rado but does run out of pull very quickly .,

the 4mo is for the wife so have to invest in a s charger for mine soon to give the perfect combo ,,imo

[mort1414 0]

i guess there must be a reason that vw now use 24v instead of 12v, no doubt the 12v sounds great but i guess the 24v's have about 8 silencers and a lot more emissions to worry about and iv never heard one with a after market exhaust anyone got any vids?

 

mort

[Abdul 0]

Another vote here for the sound of the 12v

 

Two of my friends have R32's, one with induction and exhaust, other one without, both sound pretty pants IMO...don't mean to be offensive to anyone but that 12v burble/howl is beautiful, not a big fan of tinny raspiness

 

In regards performance, mine eats the R32's up but I've thrown a fair amount of money at it obviously

 

Driving them the R32's dual mass flywheel winds me up a bit, seems to go through the gears quick but when you look at the speedo you realise you're not going as quick as you thought, saying that though they weigh 300kg more then a Rado so hardly surprising, I'm sure the 3.2 in a C is an awesome combo

 

 

What work have u done to yours bud?

[Purple Tom 0]

It's also worth mentioning the 12V fitted with an OBD2 set-up. Mine has so much more torque at low rpm than an OBD1 12V, and is loads of fun to drive on the twisties without ragging the nuts off it.

 

I've never driven a 24V obviously so I can't compare, but if you want to have more torque without a 24V conversion then I would definitely recommend going OBD2 on the 12V, maybe combine it with some mild(ish) cams and a remap and you'd be well away :D

[bananawhip 0]

What work have u done to yours bud?

 

Just before I started stripping it to fit the Vortech I'd fitted 263 cams, AMD map, Simota Aero form induction kit, Decat with QTP exhaust bypass, Neuspeed pullies, Bonrath PR, and lots of cooling bits like Newsouth powergasket, DEI insulating tape on the inlet mani, mocal cooler etc...was lucky that it used to make good numbers

 

Also had a Schrick VGI but that's not indicated in the figures in my signature as I only had it on for 4 months, bloody loved it though :)

 

If I kept it NA then a LW flywheel and big bore TB was on the cards but I turned to the dark side and sacked half of it off for forced induction, probably regret it but time will tell

[Leonard 0]

 

I wish honda made a crazy high revving 6 pot, id be all over it!! Vtec is just lovely lol imo.

 

Honda NSX-R anyone! :notworthy: Want one, need one 8)

 

And there is no point getting into a 12V/24V which sounds better argument. Basically cos the 12V is one of the best sounding engines ever end of. Pretty much the only reason I still have the Corrado. And same reason the guy I was speaking to the other day still has his Mk3 VR6. Despite being minted now and owning a Porsche 996 GT3 RS and a myriad of other exciting 'weaponry' :grin:

 

Was also the reason I spent £2k on cams, VSR and a remap rather than on an engine conversion. Why would you want to get rid of the 12V, dont get it :shrug: (no offence anyone)

 

Matt

[Abdul 0]

 

I wish honda made a crazy high revving 6 pot, id be all over it!! Vtec is just lovely lol imo.

 

Honda NSX-R anyone! :notworthy: Want one, need one 8)

 

And there is no point getting into a 12V/24V which sounds better argument. Basically cos the 12V is one of the best sounding engines ever end of. Pretty much the only reason I still have the Corrado. And same reason the guy I was speaking to the other day still has his Mk3 VR6. Despite being minted now and owning a Porsche 996 GT3 RS and a myriad of other exciting 'weaponry' :grin:

 

Was also the reason I spent £2k on cams, VSR and a remap rather than on an engine conversion. Why would you want to get rid of the 12V, dont get it :shrug: (no offence anyone)

 

Matt

 

 

Does the VSR change the sound at all? Ive heard it does... makes it sound more like a regular 6pot ive read...

[Leonard 0]

Matt

 

 

Does the VSR change the sound at all? Ive heard it does... makes it sound more like a regular 6pot ive read...

 

Not that i noticed. Maybe a tad more burbly below 4k

 

Not 100% if I like the power delivery, miss the linearity of the std engine throughout the rev range. But to to be honest the car is lot better to drive everyday now. Torque below 4400rpm makes driving really relaxing. But if you are on a mission you can keep the revs high and have some fun. Feels like a VTEC kick now when the flap opens on the VSR at 4400rpm and the cams kick in. Its literally Jeckle and Hyde. One minute you can be wafting along on a load of torque. Next minute you are howling along with some serious bhp :grin:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

i guess there must be a reason that vw now use 24v instead of 12v

 

To make the power they wanted and also meet eu4 emmissions, VW had to get more air through the engine, hence drafting Cosworth to design the 24v head.

 

Without the trick inlet and variable cams, the 24v is even flatter than the 12v 'off cam'.

[mic_VR 3]

i guess there must be a reason that vw now use 24v instead of 12v

 

To make the power they wanted and also meet eu4 emmissions, VW had to get more air through the engine, hence drafting Cosworth to design the 24v head.

 

Without the trick inlet and variable cams, the 24v is even flatter than the 12v 'off cam'.

 

with all that extra flow in the 24v head I bet it would turbo well......

 

Plus you'd get that nice chopped up turbo noise!

[dukest 0]

i guess there must be a reason that vw now use 24v instead of 12v

 

To make the power they wanted and also meet eu4 emmissions, VW had to get more air through the engine, hence drafting Cosworth to design the 24v head.

 

Without the trick inlet and variable cams, the 24v is even flatter than the 12v 'off cam'.

 

with all that extra flow in the 24v head I bet it would turbo well......

 

Plus you'd get that nice chopped up turbo noise!

 

get on with it!!

[mic_VR 3]

I know, I know! I am doing it.....Promise! :lol: