Bad day with cam install... think I found the reason.... FIXED & RUNNING.

[Roger Chatfield 0]

Bloody hell, I've just read this whole thread. You have certainly been through the mill, I just can't believe how unlucky you have been Jim.

Hats off to you for persevering with it, I'm sure all the hard work will be worth it.

 

Rog.

[Jim 2]

Thanks Rog. I think really nothing compared to the nightmare you were going through with your engine, but certainly added a few more grey hairs for me this time around. Just haven't had any time to get near the car to finish putting it back together either since at least getting the cam sprocket plate on.. hoping for some time this coming weekend.

 

And I don't even have any family or kids - how people with those sort of commitments find any time to themselves is beyond me!

[easypops 8]

It's called insomnia mate :lol:

[Jim 2]

Pleased to report I spent the morning and some of this afternoon on it and she fired into life about 2pm. Bit clattery and lumpy for the first few seconds but quietened and smoothed down. I've not took it for an extended drive yet (just took a gentle drive back to my other lock-up) but so far, so good. Refurbished injectors have made a major difference - it's much much smoother, and I think things are quietening down though I think the tappets will need a bit more time to fully bed in.

 

Had a poke around the engine bay but couldn't see any large obvious oil leaks from the little split on the head gasket where it poked out of the head on the timing chain side and my sealant all appears to be working OK.

 

Just relieved to get it back to the other garage for now - will either pop back tomorrow or next weekend sometime for some more tinkering and to take it out for a proper run.

 

Thanks for all the help, advice, and understanding whilst I was getting worked up about this nightmare! This forum is a godsend! :)

 

Will also need a correct map for it now that it's back on stock cams - I'm still running a map for the SP263's.

 

Cheers.

[Supercharged 2]

Good work mate, just need to get it to Stealth and on the rollers with a map change!

[Harrier 1]

Phew ! what a relief :)

[Jim 2]

You can say that again.

[lilfuzzer 1]

Excellent news jim

[robrado974 1]

Great news !

[Jim 2]

Done a few miles in the car now since doing the work and thought I'd give some feedback.

 

Injectors have improved things overall. Everything seems smoother generally - smoother acceleration, smoother idle, etc. Well worth doing.

 

Drivability with the stock cams doesn't seem that different compared to the SP263's.. I guess I'll only notice the difference from them missing more at the top end of the rev range, which I've not really ventured into yet, but around town and on an A road cruise it seems no different to me.

 

Tappets have quietened down somewhat now and the specific stuck tappet type noise has gone (which lead me to tackle this job in the first place) however I'd say there is now more valvetrain noise overall - noticable 'ticking' audible in the cabin at various revs whilst crusing at 60/70MPH which has been a problem with my motor since forever, and which I presumed this would cure.

 

So I've just ordered some Fuchs Pro Race S 10w50 as I've had very good experiences with this oil in the past and think it'll quieten things down quite considerably as I'm currently running Synta Silver and am really overdue an oil and filter change. Also got some new plugs and an air filter on the way (the correct NKG plugs and Mann filter) so hopefully she'll be purring like a kitten after that lot are fitted.

 

Cheers.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Could it just be you've forgotten how noisy they are? Are you driving alongside dividing walls when hearing the tapping? I remember mine sounding like an M3 when it was standard, but on the open road it was better as no sounds were being deflected back.

 

Maybe take it out for a long Italian tune-up when you've put the 10W50 in it. Get some proper heat in that bad boy and blow the cobwebs away.

[dr_mat 0]

Hey Jim,

For once i agree with mr bacon.

frankly I think an old VR6 is an old VR6. Mine clatters like a barsteward if you stand there with the bonnet open revving it but runs super sweet if you're tickling the redline at the end of a long high rpm run...

Personally I think the slight increase in clatter due to old age is nothing to do with valves or chains, I suspect oil pump drive gear ..

[Jim 2]

Hm. See I've no idea what stuff was replaced during my rebuild in 2014 (as I never did get a breakdown of the work done despite repeated requests), so no clue on whether the oil pump or any associated gear was touched.

[Jim 2]

Disappointingly after a couple of runs, the top end ticking and tapping seems worse than it ever has been which is hard to fathom. It seemed pretty good after putting the tappets in and the first drive but has become progressively worse - even more so now with the 10w50 Pro Race S that I just filled the car with last week.

 

It's not just the normal level of VR ticking and tapping.. there's definitely something amiss. From about 1,500RPM upwards it sounds like a bicycle chain clicking and ticking away, loud enough to be heard quite clearly in the cabin with the windows all shut. Yet at idle it's lovely and quiet - smoother than it has been in ages. It's only as the revs start to build that it starts sound terrible making me wonder if an oilway is blocked in the head or something. The ticking doesn't come from the timing chain side, rather the opposite side of the head.

 

Going to get christmas out of the way and arrange a visit to Stealth for a general check over and oil pressure check. I need to get this sorted as it's really getting to the point where I can't be doing with this any more.

[g0ldf1ng3r 15]

oh dear Jim, really sorry to hear your woe's continue

 

all credit to you for persistently trying, the tenacity you have shown is very strong.

 

unfortunately, as with most complex things, sometimes it is best left to the professionals as they know the tricks learnt from painful experiences

 

even then it can be a difficult process, as I know personally too well, BUT your VR will reward you with big grins, a tingly driving sensation & make you look back at it every single time you walk away from it :D

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Agreed. Need to get a stethoscope on it and see if the source of the noise can be pin pointed. If the chains are a little slack, for what ever reason, that'll cause all sorts of slappy clappy tappy unhappy noises.

 

As others have discovered, Bill Schimmel has also identified a need for these handy bits! - http://vr6parts.com/onlinestore/index.php/12vr6camgear.html

[g0ldf1ng3r 15]

all sorts of slappy clappy tappy unhappy noises.

 

Kev that is a true classic!

 

i spat my tea out i laughed that hard when i read it! lol

 

PS ooo that SP site has far too many nice shiny parts :D

[Jim 2]

Cheers Kev - Interesting piece of kit :) Not cheap, but not a bank breaker either.

 

Will see what Stealth have to say about it all in the new year.

 

Really wish I had the money for a Schimmel built motor - top to bottom end with all his goodies installed like the cams, etc.

[mic_VR 3]

Slightly off topic but this is on my wish list from Bill http://vr6parts.com/onlinestore/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/661/s/mk3-intake-fuel-pump/

 

Bad time Jim, have you considered the oil pick up and pump? Could be worth pull the sump and checking all is OK, especially if you're concerned about oil starvation/blockages. Any idea what your oil pressures are like?

[g0ldf1ng3r 15]

Slightly off topic but this is on my wish list from Bill http://vr6parts.com/onlinestore/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/661/s/mk3-intake-fuel-pump/

 

Bad time Jim, have you considered the oil pick up and pump? Could be worth pull the sump and checking all is OK, especially if you're concerned about oil starvation/blockages. Any idea what your oil pressures are like?

 

i had that issue when my head work was done at stealth - vince carried out some pressure testing & it was way way out. it was another ailing part that caused issues due to the weak link moving along the chain of parts not renewed

 

new sump & sump oil pump sorted it out

[Jim 2]

Yeah I am considering the possibility that the oil pump could be to blame here... I was wondering if the thicker weight oil is amplifying the problem of it being a bit weedy and unable to pump it at a high enough pressure.

 

Having already spent quite a lot on the last round of work, I'm reluctant to just go throwing more money at replacing parts until I can be reasonably sure they're actually faulty so an oil pressure test was definitely in my mind. Was looking at oil pressure test kits - can get one for £20 but people saying that the accuracy of those is a bit pants and that you're better off with a £70+ kind of kit.. but I think I'd rather put that towards labour at Stealth and let them do a pressure check save getting a kit I literally use once every couple of years :)

[fla 9]

Just wondering if thise bearing shells are ok. Does the rattling normally go after around 2000 rpm? And does it sound like marbles rattling in a can? I think they're about £60 for new shells. Not a hard job but time consuming especially as you have to swop them lying under the car, unless you have access to a four poster.

Edited December 8, 2015 by fla

[Jim 2]

It's pretty hard to describe the noise - I'm going to have to try and grab a video clip I guess. I'd say it was like a bicycle chain ticking / clicking but then with a bit more volume and 'echo', but I'm pretty sure it's coming from more at the top end than the bottom end. That said I've no idea what sort of noise worn bearing shells would make so I guess it could be anything.

 

As I understand it they were replaced during my rebuild so they should be fine as can't have done more than 7000 miles since then? But then if there's been any kind of oil supply problem anything is possible.

 

The noise is more rythmic / has a pattern unlike when timing tensioners are kind of warn where it's more this constant kind of constant clattering noise.

 

In terms of it going past 2,000RPM - originally, yes, the noise would sort of clear as the revs built but again I have to say since switching to this thicker weight / better quality oil, I'd say the ticking does seem to come and go right through the rev range.

[g0ldf1ng3r 15]

Yeah I am considering the possibility that the oil pump could be to blame here... I was wondering if the thicker weight oil is amplifying the problem of it being a bit weedy and unable to pump it at a high enough pressure.

 

Having already spent quite a lot on the last round of work, I'm reluctant to just go throwing more money at replacing parts until I can be reasonably sure they're actually faulty so an oil pressure test was definitely in my mind. Was looking at oil pressure test kits - can get one for £20 but people saying that the accuracy of those is a bit pants and that you're better off with a £70+ kind of kit.. but I think I'd rather put that towards labour at Stealth and let them do a pressure check save getting a kit I literally use once every couple of years :)

 

on my VR Jim it was the other way around - the failing sump oil pump was massively over pressurising! i still have the picture Vince sent me showing the test result was at 9 bar!!! IIRC it should be around 1.5-2 bar

 

personally, if i was you m8, i would try to sit back & relax & forget about it as much as you can for the duration of the festivities. then hopefully look at it with refreshed eyes & brain next year

 

i would also, as you say, not waste any more money or your time attempting to diagnose it yourself. forget about it for a few weeks & give it to Vince. even if they don't fix it he should be able to diagnose it far less painfully than yourself.

 

it is funny when i think back as with all the issues & pain i experienced it should really have left a negative feeling towards Stealth but Vince made damn sure he gave me the result we both originally wanted & a little bit more (sending my inlet manifold to be re-polished due to a scratch appearing was very much welcomed)

 

Vince, & the way Jon works with him, really do make Stealth fairly special place.

 

his final result was an excellent piece of workmanship which has performed superbly ever since

[mic_VR 3]

Jim, I'm not using my car at the moment so I could remove my vdo gauges and sender, send them to you and you could get an idea at least of pressure. Not saying they're 100% correct but might give an indication?