VR6 Dead Low Compression and none start

[virtuoso23 10]

Hey all so I think my VR has gave up.

 

1993 Early 12v on 193k (Miles)

 

It had been running odd for a few days, lumpy idle, and a small drop in power and I noticed a small loss of coolant via the expansion tank.

 

Left the car parked up for a week and came to start it Saturday as I had planned a rad and coolant change. To my surprise it wouldn't fire, just crank over and over (It always fires up)

 

So I checked everything I could think off:

 

Battery

ECU Relay

Fuel Pump Relay

ECU Connection

Fuse Box Feeds

Fuel supply

Earths

Spark

All Fuses

 

Checked crank sensor at the connection and it read 819

 

All seemed okay I think

 

Had a cuppa then got back into the car floored the throttle and turned the key and it tried to fire and did sort off, sounded like 2 or 3 cylinders but it also sounded terrible (Big smacking hammer on metal:()

 

So after a lot of messing about I decided to do a compression test.

 

Removed fuel pump relay, took leads out of the way.

 

Throttle floored on each test

 

Oh dear!

 

1) 135 PSI

2) 0 PSI

3) 115 PSI

4) 105 PSI

5) 0 PSI

6) 0 PSI

 

Or bottom bank 105/135/115

Top bank 0/0/0

 

So I don't really know but prior to the compression test I thought maybe the Head Gasket had gone, now I'm thinking burnt or bent valve or valves or the timing has gone tits up.

 

Going to get an engine stand and pull the engine ready for a strip down

 

Oh the joys

 

Any advice

Thanks

[Geeba 0]

Dam - thats a bit of a blow... it would be the clanking noise that would concern me the most, low compression due to wear is fairly straightforward.. strip engine, hone or bore, rings or pistons, clean block, skim head and back together with a steel head-gasket.

 

Like you say could be a number of things... but for 3 pots to fail at the same time I'm also thinking timing, but you wont know till you get going on it.

 

Few bits I bought for mine that might save you some time..

 

Big end bearings... Glyco as the ones I ordered from the dealer (I like genuine bits) were awful! look liked they had kick around someones tool box for a few years.

 

these were great and the OEM brand

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Big-End-Bearings-GLYCO-V6-VR6-R32-R30-2-8L-2-9-L-3-2L-Turbo-AAA-AES-ABV-axj-/282966674347?hash=item41e220cbab

 

Cam alignment tool

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VR6-Camshaft-Alignment-Engine-Repair-3268-Cam-Tool-VW-Golf-Corrado-AAA-V6-12V-/263555088242?hash=item3d5d1b7f72

 

Head-gasket I got from Stealth

 

Main gasket set head and bottom end I got from Heritage - again all OEM or nearest to it.

 

Good luck

[virtuoso23 10]

Hi Geeba,

 

Many thanks for your reply, Is the Head Gasket Set standard? Would like the best possible version if possible although I imagine stealth only use top products.

 

I have the camshaft locking tool so that's all good.

 

Going to pull the engine this Friday so will assess the issue/damage then.

 

Currently depending on the state of the engine I will either repair or replace it. Would be a shame to let the 2.9 go but will have to weigh up possible rebuild cost vs Engine swap.

[Geeba 0]

Hiya - the head gasket is Victor Reinz and the later MK4 Golf/Sharran item, its MLS (Multi Layer Steel) so really only advisable to use it if you have the head skimmed. Its very good quality and I believe used by VW. Its also considerable thinner and increases the compression ratio - not sure on the actual gains but I measured it with a vernier and its a millimeter thinner than the standard one so will definitely do something. Like you I like to only use the best spares available when building cars.

 

I think my re-bore, deck, pistons, bearings, crank/rod balance came in at £1800 but a big chunk of that was the pistons as the 82.5mm ones I originally wanted the engineering company couldn't source at the time so I went for 83mm forged items giving 2931cc. - I could of got away with a hone and oversize rings but I'm a bit OCD on that front so went the whole hog, I dont intend selling the car so wanted it right.

[virtuoso23 10]

Hey bud, just seen pictures of your engine from other posts, oh my I almost spat my coffee out. It looks sensational.

I agree with you there if it's a keeper might as well do it properly the first time round.

 

Thanks,I'll look into the Victor Reinz gasket and the other parts you have mentioned.

 

I will update this further in the week with photos once the engine is out.

[virtuoso23 10]

Okay, so I have begun stripping down the engine bay wiring and other associated bits and pieces in preparation for the engine removal this weekend. Front bumper/slam panel and more to come off over the next few days.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]94243[/ATTACH]

 

 

Now obviously I don't know for sure what's happened to the old girl just yet, however I am weighing up options in terms of rebuild or engine swap.

 

Expense is an issue here and can't at this time really afford to go the whole rebuild route.

 

Here is the situation:

 

Current original engine is on 194,000 Miles

 

As we all know 2.9 ABV engines are somewhat hard to come by for obvious reasons.

 

So, if the head is buggered do I just rebuild the head or purchase a reconditioned head, available for £325? (Are the 2.8 cams the same as the 2.9 cams)?

 

If the bottom end is buggered, can I use a AAA 2.8 12v Bottom end and mate it to my current head?

 

 

Any advice on this would be most appreciated

Of course all ancillary items etc will be refreshed, cooling etc etc etc

 

 

Will see where we are this weekend to confirm plan of action

Edited July 18, 2018 by virtuoso23

[Dox 23]

It sounds like one cam has jumped a couple of teeth and valves have kissed the pistons - the whole bank has no compression.

 

If your pistons are declared OK by a machine shop you could bore a 2.8 block and fit them with new rings?

[fla 9]

^^^^this.

 

I would also check the tensioner at the back of the head for a potential reason for jumping teeth. May have failed therefore would not hold pressure. Also check teh cams and the sprocket guides when you take them out. New big end shells on a rebored 2.8 block and recon head, and you're pretty much starting with a new engine.

[virtuoso23 10]

Thanks for the advice. Yeah makes sense given the lack of compression over one bank. Fun fun.

Will check the timing setup and inspect once out.

 

I may be in luck potentially, just got off the phone and a friend, who knows a slavage guy, who knows some guy with a Corrado (lol) may have a 60 odd k 2.9 engine which was replaced with an R32 engine around 4 months ago. He say's he may still have the engine which supposedly was running fine.

 

Why you'd want to swap out such a low millage engine I don't know but some people are crazy.

 

Not trying to get my hopes up too much but you never know. Hopefully he is crazy. Watch this space.

[virtuoso23 10]

So any early start today continuing the strip down.

 

 

Lights out and Bumper off. Discovered here that a previous owner/mechanic hadn't put the middle bolt back in the crossmember. Nice!

 

 

Slam Panel off

 

 

Radiator out and coolant drained

 

 

Makeshift rain protector, heaven decided to open today.

 

 

A few hours later and its out, was a bit of a wrestle

 

 

Got the old man in for a few pi** take photos for facebook :)

 

 

Then he roped me in, was a right laugh to be fair! :)

 

 

And there she is for now. What a mess haha!

 

 

More updates coming over the weekend. Time to strip the engine.

Edited July 20, 2018 by virtuoso23

[virtuoso23 10]

He Sold the 60k engine two weeks ago for £250!!!!!

 

Bugger bugger bugger!!

[virtuoso23 10]

Well well here lies the problem. Nice!!:cheers::bonk:

 

 

[Geeba 0]

Oooeerrr - not nice, heat, age, oil makes them go brittle - my engine was around 130k and bits had started falling off the tensioners.

 

Have you got the head off yet? - you might of got away with it..

[virtuoso23 10]

Not nice indeed. Can't really moan though to be fair to it, I think it's the original chain/guides etc on 194k Engine pretty good for an early VR.

 

Head will be stripped this coming week so will see what exciting things await :)

[Jim Bowen 1]

Oh dear, do you think it might have been the top tensioner going that caused the guides to fall apart, looks a bit worn

[virtuoso23 10]

Top tensioner looked in good condition, bottom though looks a bit iffy, however I believe it's neither, most likely excessive wear on the guides more than anything.

 

Looks like one guide failed and took the rest with it.

[virtuoso23 10]

So finally split the head and block apart. Surprisingly only two valves were bent :)

Looks like it's never suffered any heat issues so after a clean will measure to see if it requires a skim at all.

 

 

Pistons look okay so that's a positive, albeit plenty of carbon :dance:

 

Time for a strip down and rebuild on the head and a bottom end inspection and a clean up of the block

 

Whilst waiting for parts thought I would de-grease all the timing covers and prep for paint, also though I'd give the inlet manifold a quick sand and paint, nothing special but certainly looks better than the 25 year old part that came off.

 

 

More updates once parts arrive