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KarlosG60

Cluster gauge displays are gone

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Hey guys, how you doing. I'm new here (account from 2008, two posts) and I need help with my cluster gauge.

 

Just at the same time I get the engine running again (fuel pump and fuel leveler replaced) , I lost the displays on my cluster gauge:

spacer.png

The fuel level indicator is working correctly (in those pictures can't we see it). So, the fuel pump I think it's well mounted and wired and have no relation of any kind to this new problem. I said that because I had a problem with one wire of the fuel pump:

spacer.pngspacer.pngspacer.png

Because yellow is touching black terminal, I put a plastic clamp between them to fix it. don't think this is the cause of the problem, I think it's only a coincidence.

 

MFA and gauges problem

Right after the fuel pump is mounted and wired, fuel tank filled with 20-25 Liters of fuel I tried to start engine.

The first I noticed it's a little electrical noise right below the steering every time I turn the key to on.

Immediately I stopped starting engine and look to the reles and fuses box. Didn't see anything, no smoke, didn't smell anything strange, so I try again to start engine. The noise came again. With my finger I touch a souspicious rele while the key is trying to turning on the engine. I felt how this rele vibrates at the same time of the noise.

The engine felt like it's gonna turn on, so I try again and again... Engine sounds like better at every try. But in one of them, the crunchy noise stopped and I can see the MFA displays are now erased. I turn off the key and turn on again. Is at that moment when the MFA displays all its lines, making impossible to read anything.

Hopefully for all I am a documan, so I recorded the noise:

 

Gauge cluster video:

 

Around second 20", if you pay attention, you should listen a sound at the same time of acceleration. It's like a kitty meowing:

 

I remember years ago reading about vacuum hose problems of the gauge cluster. Maybe now I have it too? And what relation have with the electrical sound of the other video?

 

 

Ok, this was months ago.

But, after this worldwide situation, I begin again with that issue in my Corrado. But the problem now is both displays are gone.
I have one battery for my two cars, and I put it in my Corrado when I want to start it and drive through the garage. I made this during last month without any troubles, but the other day the displays gone.

Do you know if this is another symptom of whatever (different than other things we talk here)? I don't pulled out gauge cluster yet, so this will be the next step if you don't say something different.

If my gauge cluster is dead, I will like to swap it to the modern version with de 'Corrado' and the red needles. Do you know if my +91 gauge cluster is 100% compatible with that?

Excuse me for posting this here and make a lot of questions, but really need help. After fuel pump replacement, my Corrado it is supposed to be prepared to return to the road again, after 10 years, but I can't do it that way.


Thanks and regards.

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Besides the fuel pump, any other wiring mods done to the car?  The buzzing relay can be caused by voltage issues, shorts, mis-wiring, missing grounds, or the relay itself.  Im suspecting the console wiring is shorted and causing the loaded display.  The same short could also be contributing to the buzzing relay.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Bennitoapplebum said:

Besides the fuel pump, any other wiring mods done to the car?  The buzzing relay can be caused by voltage issues, shorts, mis-wiring, missing grounds, or the relay itself.  Im suspecting the console wiring is shorted and causing the loaded display.  The same short could also be contributing to the buzzing relay.

Thanks for your response.

 

Any other wiring mods done to the car?

Well, it have a bixenon kit since years ago. That's the only. The cluster gauge works fine since I own the car 12 years ago. The bixenon is mounted since then.

The displays were fine until I try to start the engine with the new fuel pump, what had a shorten black wire (pictures). This shorten wire I already fixed with an extension cable.

I read about Voltage Regulator at PCB of the cluster. But I don't know, I think is not my problem because the fuel level and coolant temperature are working, and the RPM needle moves when you accelerate at least 2500-3000rpm (I know this RPM by engine sound). This needle RPM move is not constant, it's a little jump from 0 to 1000rpm and go down again. Very strange.

Maybe you are right and is a missing ground. The car battery was removed months ago because dies. I constantly changing the battery with my daily car to run the Corrado.

 

Edited by KarlosG60

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The water temp and oil pressure light tie into the same grounds within the gauge cluster unit.  If you can't find any external wiring shorts, I'd try to change out the cluster.  I'm not sure if the newer one you have is compatible.  The wiring diagrams indicate that earlier years have an external "coolant low level control unit, " and the newer ones are built-in.

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13 hours ago, Bennitoapplebum said:

The water temp and oil pressure light tie into the same grounds within the gauge cluster unit.  If you can't find any external wiring shorts, I'd try to change out the cluster.  I'm not sure if the newer one you have is compatible.  The wiring diagrams indicate that earlier years have an external "coolant low level control unit, " and the newer ones are built-in.

Ok, I will try pulling out the cluster.

Do you think the new fuel pump wiring can cause this issue? Not only fuel pump was replaced, also the level indicator and I think this was connected correctly, because the fuel level indicator connections doesn't matter its positions:

image.png.760268149570dbc93dba1efa7aa3c592.png

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I may have been mistaken, those three components (fuel sender, oil pressure light, and coolant light) share the same power wire from the voltage stabilizer within the cluster.  Earlier I said they shared “grounds.”  With that said, there *may* be a possibility that something shorted during installation.  
 

Have you tried to “reset” the MFA by holding the button for ~3 seconds?

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On 8/1/2020 at 7:41 AM, Bennitoapplebum said:

I may have been mistaken, those three components (fuel sender, oil pressure light, and coolant light) share the same power wire from the voltage stabilizer within the cluster.  Earlier I said they shared “grounds.”  With that said, there *may* be a possibility that something shorted during installation.  
 

Have you tried to “reset” the MFA by holding the button for ~3 seconds?

Ok, I will check grounds.

Quote

Have you tried to “reset” the MFA by holding the button for ~3 seconds?

Yes, I think. I will try again.

 

 

Thanks

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Posted (edited)
On 8/1/2020 at 7:41 AM, Bennitoapplebum said:

I may have been mistaken, those three components (fuel sender, oil pressure light, and coolant light) share the same power wire from the voltage stabilizer within the cluster.  Earlier I said they shared “grounds.”  With that said, there *may* be a possibility that something shorted during installation.  
 

Have you tried to “reset” the MFA by holding the button for ~3 seconds?

I had being moving the terminals of the battery and sometimes the cluster gauge displays all numbers, sometimes a few, sometimes none... I don't know if the problem came from the battery wires.

I tired holding for 3 seconds the MFA button. Nothing happened.

 

Anyway, I pulled out the gauge cluster to make some checkings, but I don't know how to start.

Edited by KarlosG60

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Have you checked the battery earth? There is an earth stud just behind the battery on the chassis leg that the neg terminal (and a few others) connect to. If it's intermittent when you're moving the battery around, chances are it's either that or the cable itself. Also worth completely disconnecting your fuel pump too. It may have been coincidence that it started around that time, but completely removing all wires (ensuring you don't short them on eachother) will rule that out.

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9 hours ago, seanl82 said:

Have you checked the battery earth? There is an earth stud just behind the battery on the chassis leg that the neg terminal (and a few others) connect to. If it's intermittent when you're moving the battery around, chances are it's either that or the cable itself. Also worth completely disconnecting your fuel pump too. It may have been coincidence that it started around that time, but completely removing all wires (ensuring you don't short them on eachother) will rule that out.

I checked some grounds, but I don't know where is that one you mention 🤔

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It’s behind the battery to the left as you look at it from the front of the car. Take the battery out to get proper accessD7C5B306-F2E7-4E9C-97E6-7E6E2A5965C5.thumb.jpeg.90ddd46618cb75d9c74743094d9e76e1.jpeg. Mine looked like this before I cleaned it up. 

1 hour ago, KarlosG60 said:

I checked some grounds, but I don't know where is that one you mention 🤔

 

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4 minutes ago, 1xshaunx1 said:

It’s behind the battery to the left as you look at it from the front of the car. Take the battery out to get proper access.

 

Thanks guys, I'll check it later today. I think it's possible the reason, because I put in and out the battery few times, because I use the same for my two cars.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, 1xshaunx1 said:

It’s behind the battery to the left as you look at it from the front of the car. Take the battery out to get proper accessD7C5B306-F2E7-4E9C-97E6-7E6E2A5965C5.thumb.jpeg.90ddd46618cb75d9c74743094d9e76e1.jpeg. Mine looked like this before I cleaned it up. 

 

 

Ok, checked and cleaned. Problem still happening but this was a quick and important check to do.

rear_ground1.thumb.jpeg.fdb20c8ec3c963b928478ec46250c5f7.jpegrear_ground2.thumb.jpeg.5f14b35e8e654f6ab1919e81624bb864.jpegrear_ground3.thumb.jpeg.f6752dc89efc9c74b7d713af2c451ab7.jpegrear_ground4.thumb.jpeg.21bfd75bc4f3f874aa528eafc5da2d65.jpegcleaned_ground1.thumb.jpeg.44e5c499dd63cbd8c69c26d30347c162.jpeg

 

In last picture the ground is incorrect mounted. I fixed after the shot.

I have more questions and more pictures to upload in the next post.

Edited by KarlosG60

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Posted (edited)

When I go to check if it cluster gauge works, nothing happens... unless now I have permanently ON the right indicator lamp and the right indicator doesn't works. This  is because the right light position it's ON and I cannot put it off. So I pull out the relay and pull it in again... I don't remember all the things I did, but in a one of those tests, the cluster gauge ignition key lamp works when I turn the key on that position:

rd1.thumb.jpeg.b4043f4edfa7684b4e03c9b05b297cf8.jpeg

rd2.thumb.jpeg.2df004bc66424facd60a3ed5ae947268.jpeg

In other of these tests, I have the two direction indicators ON:

direction_indicators.thumb.jpeg.ba9410bcf2b6264fb701d959fc83b210.jpeg

 

At this point I am stuck, but I found a missing wire ground rolled on the left suspension cover. So I unrolled:

lonely_wire1.thumb.jpeg.a0b7caa04b8202bee78f5109daad9a9f.jpeg

 

I don't know what is this, but it's very long and come from the inside of the car:

lonely_wire2.thumb.jpeg.955a4cdcf5c234e4190a9cd8edb97cb6.jpeg

 

So, with the cluster gauge with the two directions lights ON, I put this missing ground to the battery ground and magically, they put it OFF.

 

 

 

Edited by KarlosG60

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Posted (edited)

Other thing I did is to disconnect the fuel pump completely. Not only the connector under the fuel tank cover, also including the level indicator. 4 wires and 1 connector in total.

 The cluster stills not working with that test done.

Edited by KarlosG60

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Posted (edited)

After mounted all the fuel pump wires and hoses, I try to run the engine to ensure all is correct.

This is what it happens at the fuse and relay box.

 

After many tries to run the engine, finally I got it, and this electrical noise disappears.

So, if we look at the first post:

Quote

Right after the fuel pump is mounted and wired, fuel tank filled with 20-25 Liters of fuel I tried to start engine.

The first I noticed it's a little electrical noise right below the steering every time I turn the key to on.

Immediately I stopped starting engine and look to the reles and fuses box. Didn't see anything, no smoke, didn't smell anything strange, so I try again to start engine. The noise came again. With my finger I touch a souspicious rele while the key is trying to turning on the engine. I felt how this rele vibrates at the same time of the noise.

The engine felt like it's gonna turn on, so I try again and again... Engine sounds like better at every try. But in one of them, the crunchy noise stopped and I can see the MFA displays are now erased. I turn off the key and turn on again. Is at that moment when the MFA displays all its lines, making impossible to read anything.

Hopefully for all I am a documan, so I recorded the noise:
 

 

 

 

This noise again!!! It means that relay can broke my cluster gauge?? Is this possible???

Edited by KarlosG60

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Posted (edited)

That's all for now guys. I'm really stuck right now, I don't know what to do. Buying another cluster gauge it's expensive and very risky if I got a short or something who can broke clusters gauges.

 

 

Thank you for your help. Regards

 

P.S: Another picture of what I got when I put OFF / ON the battery ground.

aksjdhajs.thumb.jpeg.25098ac7ada1ad2d28cd0a6e7f5e1f10.jpeg

 

a.jsdasdpeg

Edited by KarlosG60

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11 hours ago, 1xshaunx1 said:

It’s behind the battery to the left as you look at it from the front of the car. Take the battery out to get proper accessD7C5B306-F2E7-4E9C-97E6-7E6E2A5965C5.thumb.jpeg.90ddd46618cb75d9c74743094d9e76e1.jpeg. Mine looked like this before I cleaned it up. 

On 8/9/2020 at 8:51 AM, KarlosG60 said:

I had being moving the terminals of the battery and sometimes the cluster gauge displays all numbers, sometimes a few, sometimes none... I don't know if the problem came from the battery wires.

I tired holding for 3 seconds the MFA button. Nothing happened.

 

Anyway, I pulled out the gauge cluster to make some checkings, but I don't know how to start.

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3 hours ago, Bennitoapplebum said:

 

I’d double check that ground wire going into the car.  Someone has worked on the car previously.  Theres a possibility that they incorrectly bypassed a ground, giving you a bunch of problems.  These cars are old, and any wire that *looks* okay, needs to be confirmed through thorough testing.

Would you happen to have the Bentley Manual? 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Bennitoapplebum said:

I’d double check that ground wire going into the car.  Someone has worked on the car previously.  Theres a possibility that they incorrectly bypassed a ground, giving you a bunch of problems.  These cars are old, and any wire that *looks* okay, needs to be confirmed through thorough testing.

Would you happen to have the Bentley Manual? 

I had the car since 2007. That wire it's always missing (I forgot about that). But it's true it always got problems in idle rpm's and 3 cylinder running at high temperatures. In the past I fixed other grounds I found broken or missing.

That one I don't trust it fix the gauge problem, because it works since I bought it, but I will fix it, for sure.

 

Quote

Would you happen to have the Bentley Manual? 

Yes

Edited by KarlosG60

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, KarlosG60 said:

I had the car since 2007. That wire it's always missing (I forgot about that). But it's true it always got problems in idle rpm's and 3 cylinder running at high temperatures. In the past I fixed other grounds I found broken or missing.

That one I don't trust it fix the gauge problem, because it works since I bought it, but I will fix it, for sure.

 

Yes

Quote

But it's true it always got problems in idle rpm's

For the record: Accelerator body valve in intake manifold was changed and solved most of the problems, but not at high road temperatures (+45C) and heavy traffic.

Anyway, the car is out of the road for 10 years. I write about that rpm problems in heavy traffic like it happens yesterday 😅

Edited by KarlosG60

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31 minutes ago, KarlosG60 said:

For the record: Accelerator body valve in intake manifold was changed and solved most of the problems, but not at high road temperatures (+45C) and heavy traffic.

Anyway, the car is out of the road for 10 years. I write about that rpm problems in heavy traffic like it happens yesterday 😅

All those problems you list are normal for a Corrado.  Just kidding.

Fix all the grounds first, then you can start diagnosing the problems.  Sometimes fixing the grounds will be the cure.

The main grounds to check or replace are:

1: Main battery ground to frame(1xshaunx1’s pic)

2: transmission bolt to frame

3: intake manifold to firewall

4: firewall to hood hinge

5: ground “bus” above relay/fuse box

 

Make sure they are clean, have no crud or corrosion before you bolt them down.  Dielectric grease can be used AFTER bolting them down, to prevent corrosion/oxidation.

All these grounds are important on older cars as there may be corrosion between the spot welds and mating flanges, reducing current flow to the interior.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Bennitoapplebum said:

Dielectric grease can be used AFTER bolting them down, to prevent corrosion/oxidation.

 

At as I know this grease does not conduct electricity, so it shouldn’t be applied directly to the mating surfaces (pins and sockets) of an electrical connection 🤔. I am right?

Maybe a grease like Liqui Moly 3140, which conducts electricity it's better ?

Edited by KarlosG60

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5 hours ago, KarlosG60 said:

At as I know this grease does not conduct electricity, so it shouldn’t be applied directly to the mating surfaces (pins and sockets) of an electrical connection 🤔. I am right?

Maybe a grease like Liqui Moly 3140, which conducts electricity it's better ?

That is correct.  The grease is only applied after establishing good contact.  I don’t have any experience with Liqui Moly 3140, but I like to practice no grease product on any electrical contact/mating surfaces.  Sounds interesting, I’ll look into that product for future use.

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