The Forced Induction VR6 thread

[KADVR6 0]

as for the power you can get from a rotrex, look at this. a guy on vr6oc (lizardracing) has the following engine spec

 

 

83mm JE forged pistons, standard compression.

Scat Forged connection rods.

Rotrex C30-84 with 70mm pulley.

Stainless steel decompression plate 8.7:1.

Doherty Racing 268 Cams.

Aquamist 1S 50/50 Methanol/Water 0.7 jet.

Dubpower 6-branch stainless exhaust manifold and full system with CAT bypass.

520cc injectors.

PWR charge cooler.

Pace pre-rad and brushless pump.

10.8mm silicone HT leads.

Emerald ECU mapped by Storm developments.

Balanced crank.

Lightened and balanced Flywheel.

SPEC 3+ cerametallic clutch.

Forge dump valve with 30PSI spring.

3 bar Weber MAP sensor.

 

and look at this for a power graph :shock:

 

 

very spooky this, as i have just noticed he's username on here.

 

karl

[CrazyDave 0]

It was a pretty long day and as already mentioned, not quite entirely to plan!

 

Here goes:

Rotrex fitting guide part 1

 

The little fella on his bracket.

 

Other side.

 

Idler pulley if you don't have aircon, which most of us don't (DOH!). The bolts needed for this are really long M8s, about 160mm does the trick. However we couldn't find any this long so used some all-thread cut to length instead and some nuts / washers on either end. Looks like the best way to fit this is to remove the front of the car. It goes under the alternator above the PAS pump, really awkward to see let alone get at!

 

The mounting bracket.

 

Belt tensioner removed and ready for the first part of the kit. The carbon cannister was also removed and the tank breather tucked down near the air filter. The blue solenoid valve was left connected to prevent ECU fault codes and idle trouble.

 

Fitting the first part of the kit, easy eh?

 

TWO HOURS LATER! For some reason the thread picked up when we fitted this bolt and it got stuck half way into the hole. We broke a pair of grips and nearly broke the pin at one point. Fortunately the pin did eventually come out and we re-taped the head to clear the thread out. It went straight in. This bolt was given a name that due to the family orientated nature of this forum cannot be mentioned :lol:

 

Fitting the standard tensioner to the Rotrex bracket. The exisitng bolts are used to fit the tensioner to the bracket. We needed 2 x M8x80 bolts to fit the bracket to the head as they didn't seem to be in the kit of bits?

 

The tensioner pulley then needs the extension piece fitting, but it didn't fit. It was about 0.2-0.3mm oversize. So we improvised a lathe out of a battery drill and a file. After 2 batteries and 1 file it fitted nicely into the pulley bearing with a lite tap (with the Brummie screwdriver!). This part was also given a name that also cannot be mentioned on this forum as above!

 

The bracket with the tensioner pulley and tensioner mounted up ready for the charger. The charger needs 4 off M6x120ish filed down a bit allen bolts to fit it to the bracket, these run through the bracket and right down the length of the Rotrex planetary gearbox and thread into taped holes in the compressor housing. Maybe Rob can measure the exact length of these cos I can't remember (only that trying to find 4 allen bolts that size on a Saturday morning is not easy but we got lucky at the local hardware store!).

 

The charger won't fit until the tensioner has been cut away like this.

 

And the tensioner pulley catches here on some cylinder heads, so this needed attacking with the angle grinder. Cue Dave getting 'Crazy' and hacking lumps out of Robs cylinder head.

 

Tea / coffee and bacon sandwich break! Quite a bit of horsepower in the paddock.

 

Rob busy!

 

The charger has an oil system which also has a radiator and a fluid header tank, we found a home for this just in front of the alternator (it'll need a funnel to fill up). The radiator we housed in front of the main rad by drilling two square holes out (13mm) that already exist in the front cross member. The pipes ran along the front panel and up to the charger.

 

The MAF cable was also extended to allow it to be mounted quite far away from the charger inlet (about 600-800mm) so the air filter will be right under front panel somewhere?

 

Thats it for now, sure Rob will take some pics of the remaining bits and bobs.

 

Things left to do:

Figure out the belt routing!

Fit the charger. Two bolts?

Set the belt pullies and release the tensioner.

Fill the charge oil system with traction fluid and prime.

Pipe up the inlet system.

Fit the RR regulator. Rob you need some fuel hose to fit the hose tails on the reg, and some vacuum hose for the small pressure line. Use one of the green tapping point off the brake servo pipe (just above the gearbox, pop the cap off and fit the tube). The reg goes in the return line to the fuel tank, make sure the arrows on the reg are the correct way round.

 

All in all a fun day, Rob didn't seem to stressed by the unfolding fiasco.

 

More soon.....

[herisites 0]

Yep that sounds pretty similar to what Andy was telling me Kev.

 

Here is a pic of it:

 

 

Its a beast! I got some 6mm fuel pipe and the only size vacuum hose i could get hold of which is 1/8" it fits but its a bloody tight squeeze so i dunno if i need bigger? Also is 6mm right for the fuel pipe? Again it goes on but with a squeeze but the standard pipes do look a bit chunkier so im thinking maybe its 8mm after all? Dave couldnt remember when i rang him!

[herisites 0]

Well thats everything done apart from the fuel regulator which me and karl will do tomorrow morning and then start her up!

 

Looks 8)

 

 

And what you cant see underneath:

 

 

 

Just need to properly secure the cone and maf in the bumper somewhere and hide the rest of the piping!

[junkie 0]

herisites-boost gauge same as mine, cheap enough?

link http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ ... e=MOCTBG2C

 

[vr6t 0]

My mate has used the ATP on his Rallye VRT and swapped the cold side over and it worked. The downpipe was a bit messy though

:shock:

One messy downpipe. I was going to make a new one out of some nice #80 180deg bends but the performance in getting the engine and gearbox out, means that the current design of DP is quite a good compromise...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Schitt yeah that's a point :?

 

Anyway, work begins tomorrow on phase two...

 

GT35R shown next to my old GT30. The turbine housings are identical but the compressor housing is a T04S, rather than the 30's smaller T04E. The 35R has 8mm bigger compressor and turbine wheels too.

It'll be laggier than the 30, but it'll kick harder to the redline. The 30 kind of fizzled out a little bit past 6K, but the Schimmel big valve head and 263 turbo cams should help with that 8) 20 deg more duration than stock and +1mm lift. Titanium caps and collets, uprated springs and special lifters will enable it to spin to 7500rpm.

On an engine running a 35R @ 20psi, adding the cams and a tweak of the DTA, an extra 50hp was found, so they're pretty effective.....and that's my aim, the best possible cylinder filling using the minimum of boost.

[KADVR6 0]

well i'm slowly getting all the parts ready for the rotrex :D and this morning the chargecooler arrived 8) i'm very very impressed with the quality of the cooler, the welds are ok, and it looks well up to the job. plus i paid for it on friday so a very quick delivery. and the best part?? i won it for £82 :D

 

i have a serck 30 row cooler for it (£24 off e-bay, brand new), plus i'm gonna be using a spal 10" fan for added cooling (£30 off a mate) i have an R32 water pump to pump the water around the system £10, just looking at getting a swirl pot??

 

so all in it will only cost me about £180 :shock:

 

karl

[StormchargedVR6 0]

spoke to someone about the schimmel intake - and understood pretty quick its not a simple procedure fitting one. Isn't the below required:

- intake

- different throttle body

- new pipework (and drawing the air from a different 'hole' in the wing)

- different throttle cable

- fans

- intercooler/charge cooler

 

that sounds a sh1tload of work and money. What are the true gains from doing this work and is this the point where the inlet can flow beyond what a vortech unit is pushing out on a standard size pulley?

 

Slow to pick up the VR chat. So bare with me here.

 

And Kev the BV head - how much larger are the valves - are both inlet and exhaust valves increased? Any other details on them - material, lifters etc? I changed the head on my G60 and the change was pretty damn good. Its a great move.

 

The hole schimmel set up is really made for turbo, it does work ok on charger set up. Im making 330bhp with 12psi vortech. Im also ready for Turbo now :lol:

 

Will be all set up with Emerald soon with SP263 cams. :D

 

 

DSCF0011.JPG[/attachment:57b71]

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Nice one mate 8) If you struggle with VW on the metal head gasket, Vince at Stealth can post you one.

 

I finally got round to fitting my stock 3 bar regulator today.

 

I used to have a big old SX regulator mounted on the offside turret, which is the most stable and highest flowing regulator you can get, but it was frustrating because the injector pulses thumped through to the cabin and despite the fuel loop I had, the idle suffered badly when the engine got hot.

 

Well this mod ensures all 6 injectors get exactly the same pressure and it has completely sorted the idle, it's rock solid. Feels a little smoother on part throttle when hot too. Next on the list is moving the MAP sensor closer to the manifold and getting the injectors to fire sequentially, which Bill tells me transforms the car 8)

 

The slack in the fuel lines above the air filter is deliberate to allow some flex, rather than the engine pulling the on the rigid lines under the servo ;-)

[StormchargedVR6 0]

Pic at JKM and there custom exhaust, made a really nice job

 

climatronic wiring-Golf from May 01.pdf2.5 Exhaust.jpg[/attachment:11ka7xwh]

 

2.8l 24v Climatronic system.pdfNew Exhaust 2.5.jpg[/attachment:11ka7xwh]

 

JKM pics 025.jpg[/attachment:11ka7xwh]

[StormchargedVR6 0]

My Dyno print out :)

 

2.8l 24v Climatronic system.pdfCCF11112007_00000 (Large).jpg[/attachment:3a5ln0ca]

 

CCF11112007_00002 (Large).jpg[/attachment:3a5ln0ca]

[herisites 0]

So Rob (and Kev), what went wrong over the weekend, are the tensioners just shot?? Did the other bits you were planning to do go ok??

 

Well it was a long day yesterday and even though getting the engine apart went swimmingly and Kev seemd to think its in pretty good condition generally when he inspected the chain tensioners he cringed a bit :lol: the tensioners are completely shot, the top one is worn right down resulting in the chain rubbing the metal and the bottom guide has a crack in it. The tensioner bolt has also gone BUT my chains never made a noise and the engine was always smooth so mine was a CLASSIC example of how bad your chains/tensioners can get without making a noise so if anyone with a VR6 hasnt had the chains done and they are over 100k miles i would definately get them checked!

 

The rest was ok, the bottom end was perfect, bores are all good etc and we* got the ARP conrod bolts on. The head mind had some rather large pits on the surface due to not running either the proper G12+ anti-freeze over its life or just not running enough and the head gasket had corroded away in places leaving the head exposed to corrode. We sorted this out though with some of mine and Kevs magical head repair putty enforced by Schimmel :lol: which did involve a lot of sanding :shock: but once done the head was flat and smooth to give a nice seal for the new gasket. We* put the head back on with the new 9:1 spacer gasket and sharan outer gasket layers and using some of Kevs special copper gasket sealant, and put on the new ARP head bolts as well making the engine now capable of about 500bhp according to Kev 8)

 

BUT then came the timing and due to the worn tensioner etc the timing just wasnt going right and Kev was unhappy about putting it all back together and running it with the chains etc in the condition they are anyway. So the plan now is leave it all apart whilst i aquire a timing chain kit and new clutch from the states as its much cheaper (which is what i need as i am now a student after all :( ) and then Kev has offered to come back and help me do that as he reckons its not a bad job! What a legend! :D

 

Just like to thank you again Kev for your help it is much much much appreciated, i would of been lost and very very skint without your help! Oh and thanks for the ride in your C, i was very impressed even if i didnt feel the full power due to the lack of grip :lol:

 

 

* Means Kev did the work whilst i watched or made coffee :lol:

 

I didnt take many pics but here are a couple:

 

Kev doing what we seemed to do a LOT yesterday ... sanding!

 

 

The finished result of all the sandin and the patented as recommended by Kev and enforced by Schimmel head repair putty :lol:

 

The block with the new gasket and ARP's installed

 

Twas a long day and although disappointing with the chains etc the rest went pretty well and its almost a relief as now that i know i can get the chains etc done without having to sell a kidney i know my engine is going to be really good so i am happy with the decision to leave it and do it properly!

[KADVR6 0]

well i have acquired another xmas prezzie for myself (another karl bargain) 8) i have gotta get all the stuff moved from out of my garage ASAP, if the missus walks in there?? i'm a dead man :lol:

 

so i have the clutch sorted, all i need is the LC-1 sorted?? so do i just need the LC-1 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Innovate-Motorspo ... dZViewItem or do i need the LM1 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Innovate-Motorspo ... dZViewItem

 

obviously i wont be buying them for the UK (to bloody expensive) so more money will be going to the states.

 

so i'm getting there, slowly

 

karl

[marcus 0]

Santa visited me early! :D Brand new Peloquin!

[antonio_b12 0]

Heres a pic of my outlet manifold, kinda loops up and supported with a support mount that i manage to fabricate, which takes a load of the manifold...

 

 

Seems to work well, but as you can see you cant use the stock inlet mani :lol:

 

Tony

[antonio_b12 0]

have you got any more pics of that manifold? thats a good size turbo 8) what is the specs?

 

The turbo is a t3/t4oe, 50AR inlet and 82 or 84 AR outlet, from memory :roll:

 

Heres a pic of the turbo manifold exactly same to mine, but think this one is used on a 24v model.

 

[StormchargedVR6 0]

nice manifold 8) are you going to run you intake towards the gearbox side as in that 24v pic? or is yours going to mount like you had in your pic?

 

Where did you get that manifold from? any links?

 

im running the intake in the normal intake position, so like i had it in my pic. The manifold was custom built...

 

Could run it like this , down to some kind of cooler and back up.

 

Resize%20of%20Resize%20of%20Picture%20459.jpg[/attachment:1av6orng]

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

like this.....

 

[KADVR6 0]

the doubled sided is not to short Si, i was running with one of those for about 8 months. when you first put the double sided one on, you dont have to use the additional belt tensioner (the pulley on the left of the picture next to the alternator pulley). but when you are getting close to the limit of belt adjustment using the bolt at the back of the charger, then undo that bolt completly, and then use the additional belt tensioner. you can leave the additional belt tensioner on the car while your not using it.

[KADVR6 0]

this may be usefull for anyone thinking of going rotrex, r-tech are selling a vr6 air intake set up from the rotrex charger outlet to the vr6 TB, this will save you having to get loads of silicone pipework/take off's. and not a bad price at £150 plus p&p

 

karl

[StormchargedVR6 0]

This how im running mine.The cooler pre-rad is in front of the main rad .

 

DSCF0013.JPG[/attachment:3ifo0dtm]

[KADVR6 0]

i have put this picture in Nemesis360 thread, but does anyone think it could actually work here?? the main problem i can see is the oil filter housing will be in the way.

 

any ideas???

[Lizard Racing 0]

For those who wanted to see my cooler set up. Taken with the only camera I could find at the time sorry.

 

Its hard to see but the rad cowling has been slit to allow the rad to move back so its level. It was possible to squeeze a 2.5" thick cored intercooler in between the air con rad and the front cross member once it was cut flat.

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

gone a bit queit in here.... :?

 

Ive been busy 8)