Definitive 24v into a (VR) Corrado thread

[Bs6VR6 10]

Kev, thanks for replying mate, I know we spoke about this last christmas, delays(time and money) have meant everything moved slower than i planned. Can I just clarify a couple of things with you?

Are you saying I don't need the emerald jumper loom, That I can use just the existing Audi loom the one I have has been cut, conveniently:bonk:, where all the wires join to form the main trunk, which I assume then terminates into the original Audi ecu, correct? The actual web with all the various connectors, for coils, injectors etc is fine, just the main trunk.

Are you saying trace the wires back from the various sensors, injectors etc, and then where they would then terminate into the audi ecu, instead terminate them into the relevant pins on the emerald ecu? In which case is it ok to keep all the sensors as per factory with the same factory plugs or do I also need to change these for emerald versions? Sorry if this is coming across as a tad slow, just want to make sure I've got it correct in my head.

Still unsure with regards the standard Corrado looms, the three white fuse box terminated plugs, F, G1, G2, how can I keep these standard if they first travel through the factory ecu? (ok, think I may of just had a bit of a brain freeze. Do I terminate the corrado side into emerald plug then into ecu, then audi engine loom into emerald plug and then onto engine as per original loom, thus the two plugs in the emerald ecu) This wiring has been one step forward and two back, just when I think Im getting my head round it throws up something else and I realize how little I know, but I'm determined to get it sorted.

 

Idiot, those addition photos never came through when I first replied, that clears things up a bit, my understanding of where to terminate the audi loom was pretty much there then, my other questions remain though mate, picture paints a thousand words hey. Your a gent, I really appreciate the time mate.

 

Max

Edited December 14, 2014 by Bs6VR6

[swiftkid 1]

Sorry I can't answer any questions about standalone as I'm running oem, but what you are wanting to achieve is swap all connections going to ecu over to standalone and all connections going into audi fusebox will then either need to be put into f, g1 & g2 connections or some are made redundant. You are lucky, the a3/mk5 3.2 looms are an absolute nightmare to convert

 

You should be able to keep all factory sensors, don't think you need to swap any sensors

Edited December 14, 2014 by swiftkid

[Mk3highline 10]

That's what I thought about the quick start but when I ooked at the quick start sensor it looked different with 2bumps on the end of the sensor I think cant find the pic I saw

I got a new cam sensor for a 2000 4motion and it looked the same as the 12v one besides the size difference

Swapped them over yesterday reset ecu and it seems lot better starts a fraction quicker

It Has massively improved throttle response

When I find someone close with vag com will be able to confirm

At the moment its furking awesome between 2500-4000

It's now pulling in 5th like it used to in 4th

 

This

 

Also where is the easiest place to get an rpm signal from? In the cabin besides behind the clocks?

Need to wire in a vafc2 to control manifold

Edited December 14, 2014 by Mk3highline

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Are you saying I don't need the emerald jumper loom, That I can use just the existing Audi loom the one I have has been cut, conveniently:bonk:, where all the wires join to form the main trunk, which I assume then terminates into the original Audi ecu, correct? The actual web with all the various connectors, for coils, injectors etc is fine, just the main trunk.

Are you saying trace the wires back from the various sensors, injectors etc, and then where they would then terminate into the audi ecu, instead terminate them into the relevant pins on the emerald ecu? In which case is it ok to keep all the sensors as per factory with the same factory plugs or do I also need to change these for emerald versions? Sorry if this is coming across as a tad slow, just want to make sure I've got it correct in my head.

 

Still unsure with regards the standard Corrado looms, the three white fuse box terminated plugs, F, G1, G2, how can I keep these standard if they first travel through the factory ecu? (ok, think I may of just had a bit of a brain freeze. Do I terminate the corrado side into emerald plug then into ecu, then audi engine loom into emerald plug and then onto engine as per original loom, thus the two plugs in the emerald ecu) This wiring has been one step forward and two back, just when I think Im getting my head round it throws up something else and I realize how little I know, but I'm determined to get it sorted.

 

Hi mate, the standard R32 ECU has 2 plugs. One is the 'engine' loom and the other is the 'car' loom. The engine loom is basically all the injectors, coils, crank & cam sensors, throttle body, flap etc etc. The car loom is MAF, lambdas, throttle pedal, power supply etc etc.

 

If you're saying the 'car' loom has been cut, that's no biggie as you don't need the majority of it anyway.

 

If the engine loom is complete, then it's simply a case of following the wires to each sensor, labelling them, then swapping ECU plugs. The Emerald wiring diagram will state which pin does what and you simply terminate the OEM wires to the relevant Emerald pins.

 

Once that's done, you need to make up a loom for the DBW pedal and power supply, which is only about 6 wires.

 

As for the Corrado wires, I just used the ECU and fuel pump relays that were already there. I just jacked into the relay signal wires and wired them to the ECU. All you are doing is replacing the original Corrado ECU with a different one, there is no need to replace or cut out any Corrado wiring at all. I think that is where some people go wrong. They get it into their heads that the Corrado loom becomes redundant.

 

That's what I thought about the quick start but when I ooked at the quick start sensor it looked different with 2bumps on the end of the sensor I think cant find the pic I saw

I got a new cam sensor for a 2000 4motion and it looked the same as the 12v one besides the size difference

Swapped them over yesterday reset ecu and it seems lot better starts a fraction quicker

It Has massively improved throttle response

When I find someone close with vag com will be able to confirm

At the moment its furking awesome between 2500-4000

It's now pulling in 5th like it used to in 4th

 

This

 

Also where is the easiest place to get an rpm signal from? In the cabin besides behind the clocks?

Need to wire in a vafc2 to control manifold

 

Strange, the 12V ECU shouldn't understand the signal from that at all, but if it's feeling better at 2500-4000, good stuff.

 

Rpm signal is the thin green/black wire in the Motronic loom. It normally picks it up from the crank sensor. If it's not working, you may need a converter box which jacks into the coil pack wire for cyl 1.

[Mk3highline 10]

It is strange but vag com will confirm for sure

I also ask Paul from the states (need a vr6) and he also said that the 24v sensor will work fine

I might get one of them nasty £10 shift lights off eBay if the vtec controller don't work

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah the sensor itself will work fine, it's just a 12V hall sender like the OBD2 one, but the signal it won't like. Maybe you'll need to cut off all but one of the teeth, then it should work fine. It needs to be the tooth that corresponds to the crank tooth gap though.

 

A schrick VGI controller will control the flap no worries, or any rpm based solenoid controller. I switched mine at 4300ish.

[Mk3highline 10]

Will have to see

The only thing I really hate with the engines is

The whole front end needs to come off to do most of the stuff

When the car was at stealth vince did say he would be able to map it so that IF I didn't sort the problem with the cam sensor he had a way round it with the remap

Either way it's the best week I've spent on a car and gained £23 plus 30ft lbs +lol

[Bs6VR6 10]

Kev, you sir are a gent.

Right, that is now making sense, well the Audi engine loom to emerald part is. I do not have the car loom that you mention. I'm aware of the standard two that both terminate into the Audi ecu. All I have is the 'engine' loom and it is this that has been cut, but from what I now gather this is not such a massive issue as they would have to be cut anyway and terminated into the emerald ecu. I plan on running the engine without MAF, lambdas, etc, so do I even need the 'car' loom? Can I not just wire a live to the ecu? On the 'engine' loom side, Surely I could just extend each wire so that they reach back to the standard ecu location as per your very helpful pics.

I'm aware I cannot join the crank wire due to signal interferance, so would it be ok to just run a complete new length and terminate it onto the correct plug and then back to the correct ecu pin out?

I'm happy with that side, and confident I could do that if in possession of the relevant wiring diagrams/information. So thank you.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Bs6VR6

[Sean_Jaymo 0]

All this talk of aftermarket is catching my interest. Do these systems come with a Base map to get you going and then take it to a decent tuner?

[Bs6VR6 10]

Hi Sean, yes, well at least the emerald system does, you can get them preconfigured when the ecu is sent out to you, they advise a rolling road session though to optimize performance.

 

Oh and kev, I dont plan on running it with the DBW, was going to fit an obd1 throttle body with a plate to attach to the 3.2 intake, does this further remove my need for the ,car, loom?

Edited December 15, 2014 by Bs6VR6

[KipVR 1]

Hi Sean, yes, well at least the emerald system does, you can get them preconfigured when the ecu is sent out to you, they advise a rolling road session though to optimize performance.

 

Oh and kev, I dont plan on running it with the DBW, was going to fit an obd1 throttle body with a plate to attach to the 3.2 intake, does this further remove my need for the ,car, loom?

 

Hey if you look through my previous posts on this thread, you'll find the Audi ECU pin out chart I made, it was for a TT 3.2 BHE but the ECU is the same. Should be just about all you need for info along with the A2 resource. Get the Audi engine harness (usually comes with the engine as its a faff to take off), I'd buy a Corrado VR6 car harness, and splice into that. Be careful with load ratings, fused outputs, which outputs are on the load reduction relay etc...You can buy the junior power timer terminals online if you don't want to solder or you need to up the gauge of wire.

 

Best tip I can give? Do it yourself, no one else cares like you do.

[Mk3highline 10]

Hi Sean, yes, well at least the emerald system does, you can get them preconfigured when the ecu is sent out to you, they advise a rolling road session though to optimize performance.

 

Oh and kev, I dont plan on running it with the DBW, was going to fit an obd1 throttle body with a plate to attach to the 3.2 intake, does this further remove my need for the ,car, loom?

 

Won't you lose idle control if you use the obd1 throttle body?

I'm sure in the previous posts there was a mention of using a throttle body off an Alfa?

[Bs6VR6 10]

Mk3highline:- yes this is indeed true, but apparently you can use the idle valve from the vr6 and do it that way, as much as I admire all of those who have gone through the effort of doing it oem or retaining as many of the original features these things don't bother me. As long as the revs and speedo work, I can get the oil temp and the basic warnings(low/high oil pressure) I'm happy. Never looked at my mpg, never had a working outside temp, and to be honest with that engine in that car, I'm sure I'll be having to much fun driving the thing than to worry about a lack of features. I've removed Abs as well so it's gunna be a bare bones Corrado😉.

[Bs6VR6 10]

Kip your a star, I've got the day off today so am gunna get the corrado fuse to engine bay loom, the Audi engine harness lay them out on the front room and get going with it. Do you know where I can find wiring info for the Audi loom(ignore that, only on my first cup of tea so still warming up, can see youve answered this now I properly read your post:bonk:) and as stated above can you confirm the fact the engine loom has been chopped is not a real issue bar extending the wires? Thanks again everyone for your help, feeling far more positive about the wiring now.

 

Max

Edited December 16, 2014 by Bs6VR6
Being a spanner

[Mk3highline 10]

Mk3highline:- yes this is indeed true, but apparently you can use the idle valve from the vr6 and do it that way, as much as I admire all of those who have gone through the effort of doing it oem or retaining as many of the original features these things don't bother me. As long as the revs and speedo work, I can get the oil temp and the basic warnings(low/high oil pressure) I'm happy. Never looked at my mpg, never had a working outside temp, and to be honest with that engine in that car, I'm sure I'll be having to much fun driving the thing than to worry about a lack of features. I've removed Abs as well so it's gunna be a bare bones Corrado.

 

Like your way of thinking

Is ther an output on the ECU to control the inlet valve?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah standalones have many outputs to control pretty much anything - intake flap solenoids, turbo valves, nitrous solenoids, EGR valves, you name it.

 

Just looked at the Emerald K6 and it can't do DBW. That does make things simpler electrically and software wise, but it does mean more plumbing for an idle valve. It will run just fine like that, but it won't feel as punchy in the midrange as a standard R32, because the standard throttle mapping isn't linear. It sounds like you are pretty flexible and will be happy with it anyway, so that's cool.

 

I installed everything as VW intended more for the challenge than anything else!

[Bs6VR6 10]

Mk3Highline:- There is indeed, that's all supported by the K6. Maybe its from only ever owning carbed mk2 golfs before the Rado but I find a lot of the MFA stuff superfluous, again, huge respect to those who have done it oem, more so for the odd few who have essentially grafted mk4 wiring into an 80's designed VW, but for me I'm not really bothered about those, If she starts, runs, pulls like a train and pulls your eyes out under braking Ill be grinning from ear to ear.I mean most of it never really worked on the car before I took it off the road so I'm not missing much. I still consider electric windows decadent, lol!

 

Kev:- Yeah, like I said above, respect the effort and technical ability you guys have, but I'm not nearly so diserning, I just love driving, if the engine runs well and the brakes work good and the chassis sorted, Ill be happier than a pig in ****. I mean Karting is one of the most enjoyable things you can do on four wheels, and it doesnt get any simpler than that, I just want a bigger 3.2 litre go kart, with heaters and a nice stereo:dance:

 

Kip(and others):- I am afraid to say Ive bottled it, I am going to concentrate my time on the interior looms, and mechanicals, just don't think my wiring/electrical ability is there yet, and I've just had a long chat with that Richard guy and he has agreed to do the lot for what I consider a very reasonable price. I am going to send him the audi engine loom, the three looms feeding to F, G1, G2 plus all the original corrado engine loom and hes going to send me back a plug and play loom, all wrapped in nylon braid and labeled ready to fit. Hes worked closely with emerald for over 6 years and has just sent me a few photos of previous looms hes made and they look fantastic. He will be using the original loom as kev suggested ( the fly loom he talked about is merely the emerald plug with long tails used to extend the factory loom and as mine has been cut this solves that issue.) Feels like a big weights been lifted, I can now concentrate on the mechanicals.

 

Sorry for the long post, and once again, you guys are awesome, really appreciate the time.

 

Max,m

Edited December 16, 2014 by Bs6VR6

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Cool, sounds like you're onto a winner there!

 

One thing I wanted to do to mine, but never got round to it, was to use the MK4/MK5 engine mounts, so that the weight pendulums from the top, rather than rocking back n forth from the bottom. Keeps the swinging mass lower down in the C of G.

[Bs6VR6 10]

And this sir, is a perfect example of where we differ in our approaches, lol, not something I would of even considered. Maybe its a question of when you've been playing with cars for a while you start to need to do more to stretch yourself, the initial thrill of just swapping an engine or a brake set up begins to seem mundane. This is only the first real project I've ever undertaken, I'm sure once its all up and running my mind will start to wander onto the next mod, but for now just the thought of having that beautiful engine purring away makes me feel a little giddy:dance:

[J.C 10]

Hi

If anyone is considering a 24v conversion, I'm selling my Storm, It's got the 2.8 24V AUE engine in (under 75K), I have spent a lot of time and money getting it to perform as it should, only needs to get Stealth to recalibrate the ECU for the 24V larger injectors to get CORRECT MPG reading ( at the moment it reads about 15-20% over)

check it out on

http://the-corrado.net/showthread.php?t=89370

cheers

Steve

[Mk3highline 10]

Has anyone got an aue head off the car?

Need a little help with measurements of the inlet cam sprocket

I have the new sensor phase wheel thing just need to see if it will close to fitting

I seen the pictures think it's the only way I did attemp taking front end off but some other set backs put me off till it gets warmer

[Mk3highline 10]

Little update for info

It's possible to use a late sharan vr6 ecu 98>

but (nothing's straight forward) as the sharan has secondary air injection and EGR you will need them coded out or installed

I got stealth to remove the immobilser and take out 5% fuel and it ran perfect besides having the sai and egr faults which I didn't know prior so there is no lambda control still I managed 120miles on 1/4 tank

Local short runs was bit pooh but always is

Getting there slowly

[Bs6VR6 10]

Right, few questions I need answering. I was gunna post them in my build thread but thought it best to do it here in case it is of use to others.

 

Putting the coolant hoses back in and have hit a slight problem. One of the hoses that attaches to the heater matrix outlet and has two feeds, one smaller one running to the throttle body the other looking like it attaches to a outlet on the back of the block. Problem being my Audi 3.2 lump doesn't have an outlet only what appears to be a blanking plate. Question being has anyone encountered this before? Is it just a question of removing this, fitting a threaded tube/outlet and then connecting up? Why did VW/audi remove this on the 24v engines. Puzzling as I have seen on other build threads that this is present, is it only the later engines where this has been omitted?

 

Secondly, regarding the idle stability valve, how essential is this? I was planning on running without as my understanding was it was only really used during cold starts and I have seen a number of threads where this has been removed. If its just a case of holding the revs for a bit before she warms up i can live with that as its not going to be my daily, however if its going to be a question of constant stalling at lights I shall look into plumbing it in?

 

Answers on a postcard please.

 

Max,

[Mk3highline 10]

The smaller coolant pipe I just connected to the header tank and top radiator pipe

I'm not sure about the idle bit as I used the obd2 throttle body

Are you using cable throttle or bi wire?

[Bs6VR6 10]

Alright mate, thanks for the reply, I think were on about different pipes mate, the one going to the top hose does go to the header tank and again to the heater matrix, it is the other(shorter)heater matrix pipe I am on about?

Yeah I had an obd2 set up before I pulled it all apart so wasn't an issue then. I will be running it on a cable throttle but running emerald stand alone. Been told with good mapping the lack of idle valve can be overcome just wondering if any others had first hand experience.

 

Cheers,