Mk3highline 10 Posted March 8, 2015 From the matrix one pipe goes to the head and the other on the 12v goes to the auxiliary water pump But depends if your going to pipe it up like the 12v or 24v if that makes any sense I piped mine up like the 12v and blocked off the pipe coming from the core plug Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bs6VR6 10 Posted March 8, 2015 I've got a couple of pics to show what I mean I'll post them up in a bit to show you. At the front as I have removed the heat exchanger I now have 3 spare pipes. One in the crack pipe and 2 in the block. Looking at the front of the car would I block off the left one and join the crack pipe and right one together, is this correct? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mk3highline 10 Posted March 8, 2015 Yes but I think you may be able to block them all off? Depends on what you find easyer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frechem 10 Posted March 9, 2015 Thanks for the reply guys, but I'm still a bit confused!! [...] I got rid of any SAI pump errors by fitting a resistor to simulate a load across the relay, I cant remember how many ohms it was as it was years ago, but I don't have any SAI fault codes. For reference the power feed to the resistor also comes from the fuel pump relay, with a switched earth to J220/46. I could replace the resistor with a relay but not sure this would gain anything? [...] I don't understand how the ECU will see a signal from the SAI relay if it's removed and the ECU is just controlling the ground of that relay. Is it measuring the voltage that goes through the circuit to know it completed the circuit? What exactly is happening here? This is still very confusing as to why the pump can be removed but the relay that turns it on must stay... If the ECU can be programmed to not see the SAI pump (and it's start-up effects), and we can remove it from the system, why can't the switched earth be turned off, making the relay completely useless?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bs6VR6 10 Posted March 9, 2015 Right, must of been a long weekend, as I've gone back today with clear eyes/brain and I'm basically just a wally. I had unbolted the rear coolant outlet when painting the block. Might of been why I was struggling to find it yesterday. Now cannot for the life of me remember where I put it so will be hunting for that later. Regarding 12v or 24v coolant set-up, If I were to plumb it up as per the 24v could I retain the Samco hoses or would it require a new set? I know the aux pump is located down the front fed by the left most core plug feed. Has anyone done it this way or is it far easier to just use the 12v set-up? Don't really wanna have to fork out on a new 24v pump and hoses at this stage? Cheers, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sean_Jaymo 0 Posted March 9, 2015 12v is much easier. Block up the front outlet and then the rest just plumbs in as per 12v with only a little bit of modification to a few pipe lengths. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bs6VR6 10 Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) Edit:- part number for the part listed in the pic below is 022 131 119 b. The part I am after is on this page, sorry I cant link photo direct but my computer skills are somewhat lacking. http://the-corrado.net/showthread.php?t=20610&page=96 Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. Max, Edited March 10, 2015 by Bs6VR6 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frechem 10 Posted March 10, 2015 I don't understand how the ECU will see a signal from the SAI relay if it's removed and the ECU is just controlling the ground of that relay. Is it measuring the voltage that goes through the circuit to know it completed the circuit? What exactly is happening here? This is still very confusing as to why the pump can be removed but the relay that turns it on must stay... If the ECU can be programmed to not see the SAI pump (and it's start-up effects), and we can remove it from the system, why can't the switched earth be turned off, making the relay completely useless?? What happened to all the regulars on here? KipVR? Kevin Bacon? I'm trying to get some electrical questions sorted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swiftkid 1 Posted March 10, 2015 I don't think it's quite as easy as turning it off, I'd like to be proved wrong but I wouldn't even know where to begin to start looking for an answer. I presume it would be like a valve in a water pipe, you can fix it so it's open but if you remove it things won't work properly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frechem 10 Posted March 11, 2015 I don't think it's quite as easy as turning it off, I'd like to be proved wrong but I wouldn't even know where to begin to start looking for an answer. I presume it would be like a valve in a water pipe, you can fix it so it's open but if you remove it things won't work properly If you've shut off everything downstream of that valve, what does it matter if that valve opens or closes? That "valve" [relay] is at the front of the [sAI] plumbing system, that's all been removed and accounted for... From an engineering standpoint, I'm willing to bet the start up circuit is built like an if/then type of statement, or a while loop... SAI only runs for a short period WHILE the coolant temp sensor reads a value. IF the O2 sensor doesn't supply the correct values in that WHILE loop, THEN it throws a code. ELSE it ends the loop. Is this logical or am I missing something? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) I don't see what the problem is in leaving the relay in place? It hardly takes up a lot of space. The fact of the matter is Vince at Stealth went through all the SAI maps in the ECU (about 20 of them) disabling all instances of it's operation, but the ECU still threw a code if the relay was removed. As for why, I personally didn't care. Was happy to just leave the relay connected. I'm no automotive electrical expert but I guess the ECU must see the circuit made across pins 85 and 86 of the relay. 86 could be feed from another area of the ECU, not sure? Edited March 11, 2015 by Kevin Bacon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KipVR 1 Posted March 14, 2015 I don't understand how the ECU will see a signal from the SAI relay if it's removed and the ECU is just controlling the ground of that relay. Is it measuring the voltage that goes through the circuit to know it completed the circuit? What exactly is happening here? This is still very confusing as to why the pump can be removed but the relay that turns it on must stay... If the ECU can be programmed to not see the SAI pump (and it's start-up effects), and we can remove it from the system, why can't the switched earth be turned off, making the relay completely useless?? Hi there, sorry not been on here a while! All the problems I was having were all ECU based (Thanks to SWICT balls up) and were all sorted with a new ECU which I sent of to Vince at Stealth who I highly recommend. Resistor works just fine, or as Kev says leave the relay in, it really makes no odds. The ECU looks as water temp and O2 readings. Hope you get it sorted pal, I'm using mine as a daily now and with just a few minor things left to sort out, the 24v really makes the car what you wish the 12v was! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mk3highline 10 Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) Let me start with saying I'm fairly new to this but It depends how well or how good the software is that is being used to do the mapping work or how well the user knows it as an example the golf 12v obd2 vr ecu does not have egr or sai but the sharan vr has both of them And I bet if I used the sharan eeprom chip in the golf ecu I'd get the egr and sai faults basically it can be coded out but it will not be easy So we are left using the relay or resistor We need someone who is good with software programing I've had both ecu open next to each other and they both looked the same internally I can't see it being that much more different in the later ecu on the basis of it being about re wrighting the code Edited March 15, 2015 by Mk3highline Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted March 16, 2015 A lot of the ME7 stuff is a simple byte change - on or off, which works with things like the MAF etc, but for some reason it doesn't like the absence of an SAI signal and without that, you don't get any long term fuel trimming. I suspect some of the core emissions controls are just not available for full disabling? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swiftkid 1 Posted March 16, 2015 If you've shut off everything downstream of that valve, what does it matter if that valve opens or closes? That "valve" [relay] is at the front of the [sAI] plumbing system, that's all been removed and accounted for... From an engineering standpoint, I'm willing to bet the start up circuit is built like an if/then type of statement, or a while loop... SAI only runs for a short period WHILE the coolant temp sensor reads a value. IF the O2 sensor doesn't supply the correct values in that WHILE loop, THEN it throws a code. ELSE it ends the loop. Is this logical or am I missing something? Haha, can tell you've been using visual basic coding, inventor ilogic? I completely agree, I would love to remove it all, to me if you just leave the relay there it's like leaving masking tape on a car that's been painted and saying it's a complete job but I seem to be growing a major ocd complex! I think I'll end up leaving the relay in until I can do more research as I would prefer it to work right than look right Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KipVR 1 Posted March 16, 2015 I imagine that's exactly how it works because it's logic! But I think the ECU output trigger for the Sai relay has a load sensor on it, so if it's not operating correctly (or isn't there!) it throws a code. I just measured the current across the relay when it was pulled, worked out the resistance and wired it in right next to the ECU, it's tiny so easily hidden in the loom. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frechem 10 Posted March 19, 2015 So if the relay needs to be kept, then what do you hook the ECU wire (the switched earth) up to? Also, do you need to run a wire from the fuel pump power? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frechem 10 Posted March 24, 2015 This thread isn't very responsive lately or maybe poelpe don't know what I'm asking. I'll try and breakdown some of my questions so that people can understand better and hopefully this will help other people's questions in the future. There are three components on the R32 side that I can think of that either need to be coded out or use a resistor to simulate it's presence. They are parts 3,4 and 11: [ATTACH=CONFIG]81186[/ATTACH] 3 - Emission leak detection pump [ATTACH=CONFIG]81183[/ATTACH] 4 - Secondary air injection pump [ATTACH=CONFIG]81182[/ATTACH] 11 - Evap purge valve (N80) [ATTACH=CONFIG]81184[/ATTACH] Which ones can be eliminated altogether? Can the wiring for the SAI pump and purge valve be removed from the R32 harness? If they need to be kept, which ones need a resistor? Resistor size? Which wires are used for the resistor? Resistor direction? Then there is the relay on the VR harness side, the secondary air injection pump relay (111). [ATTACH=CONFIG]81185[/ATTACH] Can this be eliminated? If not, can a resistor be used? Resistor size? Which wires are used for the resistor? Resistor direction? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KipVR 1 Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) Leak detection pump, unless SWICT have flashed your ECU with US code (which they did to mine) or your from the U.S. you shouldn't have this component. SAI - bin it, blank the hole and leave the relay in, or use it to work out the resistor you'll need. EVAP, wire up the ECU to the existing corrado one Edit Just read the last bit of your post asking about the vr6 Sai pump relay, UK cars didn't have them I think, where are you based? Edited March 24, 2015 by KipVR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frechem 10 Posted March 25, 2015 Just read the last bit of your post asking about the vr6 Sai pump relay, UK cars didn't have them I think, where are you based? Yeah I'm in the US. Sorry I didn't mention that earlier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KipVR 1 Posted March 25, 2015 Well if you've got the relay etc there , you might want to use the vr6 SAI pump, operated by the ECU. Does it also have the EVAP leak detection pump fitted? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frechem 10 Posted March 25, 2015 I just asked APTuning, who is a UM dealer, "If I choose to leave the four O2 sensors but eliminate the other components would I get a CEL and/or would my long term fuel trims be affected? Would my mpg suffer? Or is it better to trick the ECU to think that those components are still there by using a resistor to simulate the load? This is their response, "It is for “off road” use so does not need “ all the components” if you catch my drift. No you will not get a cel and fuel trims will not be effected." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bs6VR6 10 Posted April 7, 2015 Quick question guys as I haven't been able to find a concrete answer. I'm fitting a obd1 throttle body to the 3.2 24v inlet manifold and understand the bolt patterns differ so won't be a straight bolt on job. Has anyone already done this? I'm assuming an adapter plate needs to be sourced, is there an off the shelf item you can buy? Or would anyone have a diagram with the relevant dimensions I could blag to get one made up? Thanks in advance. Max, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sean_Jaymo 0 Posted April 7, 2015 Why would you want to do that? It's a smaller throttle and won't work with the ecu. If you want to go stand alone management, look into the alfa throttle bodies but you do need a custom mount and so far as I am aware they are not off the shelf due to the tiny volumes of people going this route. If you're doing it to avoid fitting drive by wire, it's kind of like biting off your nose to spite your face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KipVR 1 Posted April 7, 2015 I have to agree with Sean there, more trouble than it's worth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
