Uprated batteries (Optima tc etc)

[dr_mat 0]

i.e. 5% charge and below ...

 

There's a whole other class of batteries called "deep cycle" batteries that are designed to be used that way - i.e. charge right up, drain right down. (This is probably what you're more familiar with for e.g. NiCd rechargeables and so on.)

 

The point I was making is that unfortunately, each and every time the car battery is allowed to completely discharge you are damaging it's ability to be recharged. This is why cars have battery voltage meters on the dash - so you can see when it's time to whip the battery out and give it a top-up charge.

 

These damn Corrados seem to sit there sucking juice, even when everything is turned off, and basically that means they chew batteries - unless you use the car every day. Even then, if you go away leaving the car at home for three weeks it's completely flat when you return and you've probably taken a big chunk off the life of the battery.. :(

[craigowl 0]

Very informative that - dr_mat.

I have just put my five quid Maplins multimeter terminals across battery posts.

Dont really know how to work it - but I got a reading of 12.96 using the dial at "20" V. Using dial at some other V settings I got 27.

 

The car has not been used for about three weeks but I switch a Draper trickle charger on for a few hours every day.

 

I am hoping, based on what your post says, my reading of 12.96 (albeit on v cheap multimeter) is a good sign?

Battery is 3.5 year old Quantum(?) from VAG.

[Supercharged 2]

craigowl, yeah thats fine, I think the other setting you used was measureing AC (~)

 

Now try the same with the engine running - should be between 13.8 and 14.5VDC

[bcstudent 0]

i.e. 5% charge and below ...

 

There's a whole other class of batteries called "deep cycle" batteries that are designed to be used that way - i.e. charge right up, drain right down. (This is probably what you're more familiar with for e.g. NiCd rechargeables and so on.)

 

The point I was making is that unfortunately, each and every time the car battery is allowed to completely discharge you are damaging it's ability to be recharged. This is why cars have battery voltage meters on the dash - so you can see when it's time to whip the battery out and give it a top-up charge.

 

These damn Corrados seem to sit there sucking juice, even when everything is turned off, and basically that means they chew batteries - unless you use the car every day. Even then, if you go away leaving the car at home for three weeks it's completely flat when you return and you've probably taken a big chunk off the life of the battery.. :(

The question is, how do Optima red top batteries react to charging from a deep-discharge? The fact is the RT-S4.2 I have is still only a 50Ah battery meaning, in theory, it'll discharge at the same rate as the 50Ah lead-acid battery it replaces. I can see that I may just have to track down the source of my 200mA drain.

[dr_mat 0]

Looks like the red tops are just heavy duty lead-acid, so they aren't any less prone than any other brand. The only thing they talk up on the web site is "strength" - resistance to heat and vibration. They don't make any claims about deep-cycling resistance. This probably just means they use stronger internals to make up the electrodes.

 

The deep-dicharge cycle isn't a big deal, as long as the battery doesn't spend much time down low. I don't know what sort of time limits we're talking about on this though.. maybe google could help..

 

craigowl that's probably fine. The fact that you trickle charge the battery every day means you'll probably never have trouble. (The fact that my car is rarely less than 20 feet from my house makes that impossible!)

Note also that when the battery is on charge in the car, it's receiving ~14v, so if you take a reading moments after turning the engine off, you'll see an unrealistically high value. You need to let the battery equalise for 30 minutes or so before you can see what it *really* outputs.

 

bcstudent, yep, 200mA drain will completely flatten your 50Ah battery in just over 10 days... But worse than that is that the battery may not be able to start the car once it drops below about 20% charge, so you'll reach that about a day or two earlier ...

[dr_mat 0]

Even Bosch's website states that you should never leave a brand new Bosch Silver discharged: "fully recharge the battery immediately"...

Man I hope mine's not knackered.. it's only two years old...!

 

Funny isn't it? The more you read, the more you don't know. It seems that many people claim that older cars don't provide enough volts to fully charge modern batteries. The Corrado's alternator regulator was always set to 13.8-14.2v ish. It may be that Optima batteries use a different technology that needs around 15v to fully charge... Bosch Silver may well be in the same camp. Perhaps we should just go to the dealer and buy a nasty old fashioned lead/antimony/acid battery with a point where you can top up with distilled water?

[bcstudent 0]

Well I'm prepared to give the Optima a shot; if it dies like the rest I'll have to just chalk it down to experience.

[Supercharged 2]

Man I hope mine's not knackered.. it's only two years old...!

 

3 year warranty tho remember mate...

[dr_mat 0]

Good! I bought it from GSF, and I was looking for that very information last night but couldn't find it.

 

BTW: checking some more it seems that the C's 14v alternator output should be enough to properly charge whatever battery you fit, so don't worry too much. It seems a lot of older cars had e.g. 13.3v regulators and that left batteries around 60% charged at most, not good.

 

I am thinking that next time I leave the car standing for any length of time I'm going to locate the circuit that's draining it, and pull the fuse .. Did anyone figure out which circuit causes the problem?

[bcstudent 0]

I seem to recall that pulling fuse 10 dropped my standing current draw by about 150mA. It was a while ago though so I'll have to repeat the experiment. I never did find out what was on the fuse 10 circuit, although I expect the VR6 fuse box is different.

[Phil K 0]

My Bosh Silver has been nothing but greif since I've had it - although in fairness the immobiliser was draining it over night when it was first fitted but it's been pants since I've had that sorted :?

 

I'm deffo keen to try a red top 8)

 

Don't know why I haven't read through this thread before - it's nice to know I'm not alone in the world of flat batteries :lol:

[dazzyvr6 0]

my bosch silver top has died,it just wont hold a charge,thats why i bought a optima yellow top

[dr_mat 0]

They don't last for ever ... once the acid breaks down, it's no longer a battery, just a heavy plastic box with poisonous things in it ...

[bcstudent 0]

They don't last for ever ... once the acid breaks down, it's no longer a battery, just a heavy plastic box with poisonous things in it ...

:lol:

[PhatVR6 0]

Finally!!! some prices.

 

I can't read them as I don't have excel, so here's the full file he sent me.

 

He says this:-

 

Hi Paul,

 

Please find attached pricing, I can get you "Distributor" pricing for orders of approximately 50 batteries. These prices exclude vat but are a major saving over the RRP.

 

When you find out what your colleagues want send me the list and I shall inform you where you can purchase them from.

 

Best regards

 

Gordon

 

so, if someone can open up that file, and get at the prices, I will open the group buy to the other forums to ensure that we get 50 orders.

 

I hope they are cheap!!

[destructiv dave 0]

They list the RT-R4.2 at £67.01 + VAT which is pretty damn good (as far as I can make out).

[bcstudent 0]

Wow, seriously good prices! However, it sounds like it could get complex as it reads like he's expecting to deliver 50 batteries on a pallet to someone and let them handle distribution.

 

It's not that clear, but this is the list in the format [short codes, description, part number, price (ex. VAT)]

 

BT DC 4.2 Marine - BT Dual Power 4.2 8016-253 £92.06

BT DC 5.5 Marine - BT Dual Power 5.5 8052-188 £115.78

BT SLI 4.2 Marine - BT Starter 4.2 8006-252 £68.34

RT C 4.2 Starter - RT Centre Terminal 4.2 8001-287 £67.01

RT R 3.7 Starter - RT 3.7 Reversed Layout 8035-255 £59.26

RT R 4.2 Starter - RT 4.2 Reversed Layout 8003-251 £67.01

RT S 2.1 Starter - RT 2.1 - 6 volt 8010-355 £51.51

RT S 3.7 Starter - RT 3.7 SAE Terminal 8020-255 £59.26

RT S 4.2 Starter - RT 4.2 SAE Terminal 8002-250 £67.01

RT U 3.7 Starter - RT 3.7 Dual Terminal 8022-255 £60.44

RT U 4.2 Starter - RT 4.2 Dual Terminal 8004-250 £68.34

YT R 2.7 Dual Power - YT 2.7 Reversed Layout 8073-176 £77.35

YT R 2.7 J Dual Power - YT 2.7 Reversed Jap. Term. 8072-176 £77.35

YT R 3.7 Dual Power - YT 3.7 Reversed Layout 8040-222 £62.44

YT S 2.7 Dual Power - YT 2.7 SAE Terminal 8071-176 £77.35

YT S 2.7 J Dual Power - YT 2.7 Jap. Term. 8070-176 £77.35

YT S 4.2 Dual Power - YT 4.2 SAE Terminal 8012-254 £90.26

YT S 5.5 Dual Power - YT 5.5 SAE Terminal 8051-187 £113.52

YT U 4.2 Dual Power - YT 4.2 Dual terminal 8014-254 £92.06

 

The terms and conditions state that pricing is inclusive of:

 

1 2.5% discount in Leiu of warranty.

2 Delivery on non returnable pallets

3 Delivery FOC with MOQ 50 pcs or consolidated within normal VB product deliveries.

4 Standard Terms & Conditions of VB Automotive batteries Ltd. apply

 

 

To summarise, these are excellent prices. The battery I just paid £132 (delivered) for - the RT-S4.2 - is listed above as £78.73 inc. VAT.

[bcstudent 0]

For reference, these are the short code meanings:

 

RT Red Top - Engine Start Vibration Proof

YT Yellow Top - Deep Cycle

BT Blue Top - Combined Engine Start & Deep Cycle

S Starter (Top Terminals)

U Starter (Top & Side Terminals)

R Reverse Layout (Layout 0)

C Centre Terminal

DC Marine

SLI Marine (Starting - Lights - Ignition)

J Japanese (Thin) Terminal

[bristolbaron 10]

PhatVR6, Do you think you can get him to confirm if we need 50 orders, as it seems the list provided is just a standard one he would send to suppliers.

 

Also, if he will arrange for them to be sent individually, as the further distribution could get messy.

 

If we can obtain these prices without months of hassle i'm def in!!

[billinjah 0]

im interested in one of these as well need some thing that will still start the car after a month standing at times.

[Furkz 0]

For reference, these are the short code meanings:

 

RT Red Top - Engine Start Vibration Proof

YT Yellow Top - Deep Cycle

BT Blue Top - Combined Engine Start & Deep Cycle

S Starter (Top Terminals)

U Starter (Top & Side Terminals)

R Reverse Layout (Layout 0)

C Centre Terminal

DC Marine

SLI Marine (Starting - Lights - Ignition)

J Japanese (Thin) Terminal

 

as i dont know im gonna stand up and ask, whats the major differences between these and whats the benefits for each

 

thanks

[iow_corrado_g60 0]

im interested but would like to know a bit more thanks andy and some definitive prices with delievery!

good work phat it seems the group buys are always well hard to organise i can see why now!

 

also as furk'z said what are differences between red and yellow

[dazzyvr6 0]

optima yellow top

 

Product Features

 

* High Power, sealed, lead acid deep-cycle car Audio battery.

* Ideal for high-end systems where a dedicated battery is required for the car audio system.

* Capacity: 55Amps

* Reserve capacity: 120 minutes

* Cranking power (0-Degrees F) : 750 Amps

* Cranking power (32-Degrees F) : 870 Amps

 

Product Description

 

Deep Cycle Battery

OPTIMA Yellow Top™ batteries, featuring SPIRALCELL TECHNOLOGY, are designed for all of your deep cycle needs.

Constant Performance Quality

 

OPTIMA Yellow Top batteries provide constant performance quality as they are discharging. Even as energy is being drained, your equipment will perform at the same level as when the battery was fully charged. Meaning, you will not hear or feel your equipment slow down or strain for power.

 

Vibration Resistant

Vibration and jarring, whether from off-road use or major potholes, can kill a traditional battery. The tightly wound construction minimizes plate movement and subsequent damage caused by harsh conditions - extending battery life.

 

Nonspillable

Because of its completely sealed case, OPTIMA Yellow Top batteries are extremely safe and corrosion resistant. Acid can't leak or spill, making them clean, user-friendly and environmentally sound. In addition, the maintenance free sealed case design eliminates the need to add water or clean terminals.

 

Mounts in Almost Any Position

OPTIMA Yellow Top batteries are leak proof, so they can be mounted anyplace inside a vehicle, in almost any position.

 

 

red top

Product Features

 

* High Power, sealed, lead acid engine starting battery.

* Ideal for mid-range systems where the original car battery cannot cope with the current demand from the audio amplifiers.

* Capacity: 50Amps

* Reserve capacity: 110 minutes

* Cranking power (0-Degrees F) : 800 Amps

* Cranking power (32-Degrees F) : 980 Amps

 

Product Description

 

Starting Battery

OPTIMA RED TOP™ batteries, featuring SPIRALCELL TECHNOLOGY, are designed for all of your starting needs.

Long Lasting

 

SPIRALCELL TECHNOLOGY. and superior materials mean OPTIMA Red Top batteries offer years of sure starts and deliver all the power needed by today's accessory-loaded vehicles. In storage, it will hold a charge longer. And should your OPTIMA Red Top battery ever need to be recharged, it will accept a charge faster than a regular battery.

 

Vibration Resistant

Vibration and jarring, whether from off-road use or major potholes, can kill a traditional battery. The tightly wound construction in OPTIMA batteries minimize plate movement and subsequent damage caused by harsh conditions - extending battery life.

 

Nonspillable

Because of its completely sealed case, OPTIMA Red Top batteries are extremely safe and corrosion resistant. Acid can't leak or spill, making them clean, user-friendly and environmentally sound. In addition, the maintenance free sealed case design eliminates the need to add water or clean terminals.

 

Mounts in Almost Any Position

OPTIMA Red Top batteries are leak proof, so they can be mounted anyplace inside a vehicle in almost any position.

[dr_mat 0]

im interested in one of these as well need some thing that will still start the car after a month standing at times.

 

You'd better buy two then ...

 

Seriously. These batteries are just like other batteries, capacity-wise, you're paying for bullet-proof build quality (in fact, 55Ah is 9 less than the Bosch Silver fitted to my VR). If your car, like most other Corrados, sits there draining 200mA while it's switched off, then you battery will be flat in 10 days. No way out of that ...

 

IF, however, you buy a deep-cycle battery, then it will go flat ... and you can recharge it ... and it won't suffer long term from that treatment. (A normal "starter" battery won't recover well if left flat.)

[bcstudent 0]

With the Optima you're also getting a good increase in maximum cranking current. What's CCA rating is your Bosch dr_mat?