The Suspension Discussion Thread

[dukest 0]

yes, sorry the link would have helped wouldn't it! :)

 

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=90656

[sprinterVR6 0]

wow! perfect price and cracking reviews. 'Fast Car' award winner 2009.

 

Just sent reply for shipping cost to sunny Dublin!

[Mystic Storm 0]

Does anyone know the cheapest place to buy the KW V2's from? Have looked around plenty and all just over a grand.

 

Definitely going to order some........hope they're worth it! Also, if I'm revamping my suspension what other components should I think about replacing at the same time?

[MattPc 0]

Jabba sport do them for £965.99 or you could e-mail AMD in Thurrock.

I'm currently refurbing my suspension (but without the KW's) i'm replacing my bushes with poly bushes but not sure which make to go with, I have heard the cheaper ones dont last as long ast the more expensive ones, can ayone confirm this and i have SKF top mounts from euro car parts. renewing ball joints and checking the ARB drop links.

 

Matt

[Mystic Storm 0]

Jabba sport do them for £965.99 or you could e-mail AMD in Thurrock.

I'm currently refurbing my suspension (but without the KW's) i'm replacing my bushes with poly bushes but not sure which make to go with, I have heard the cheaper ones dont last as long ast the more expensive ones, can ayone confirm this and i have SKF top mounts from euro car parts. renewing ball joints and checking the ARB drop links.

 

Matt

 

Cheers Matt. I just ordered the V1's as couldn't justify the extra £300 for the V2's. Should be here in about a week I hope :-). Bushes and ball joints are on my list of other parts to replace.

 

Can't wait to see what she drives like with the new set-up!

[Critical_Mass 10]

Im sure you'll be happy!!! :D

[fla 9]

Hi folks..

 

Am rethinking my suspension plans and after reading some positive comments (and talking to a happy owner or two) i'm thinking about not getting coilovers, and instead getting some standard Koni TA's with some PI springs as they seem to tread the line perfectly between comfort and handling. Have been out in a Corrado with this setup and it is very good..

 

So my question is - any idea on a supplier who can sell a complete package of all four dampers with a set of PI springs already on them?!

 

TIA :)

 

Jim,

 

this is going back a few years now, but did you find out what settings there were on this setup? I've stiffened up the damping front end on mine, which as helped a bit but it still seems too firm for my liking.

[fla 9]

Another point, does teh suspension become a little more complaint after a while s mine seems somewhat more forgiving now? Shocks and springs have now done about 150 miles. Unless i'm jut getting used to them :shrug:

[dragon green 5]

After a little over 100k, my AVO adjustable front shocks have decided enough is enough !

Not a bad shock,certainly got my money out of them,the rears "only" lasted 85k,the Eilbach springs on the front are still going strong,the rears where replaced at 50k with some cheap Venom springs,rode and sat a lot better with the cheapo springs.

After reading this thread,more than once :cuckoo: i have now succumbed to the dark side,or perhaps that should read the shiny side !

Look what ive bought -

[Kevin Bacon 5]

100K from Avos is good going :D They used to be diabolically bad many moons ago, but they've certainly improved a lot in recent years.

 

Fla, 1.5 turns front, 0.5 turn rear was always the preferred settings with most folk. The PI springs are only slightly softer than the Green H&Rs by feel, but it would be nice to compare the spring rates. I will put money on the H&Rs being 400 lb-in, or 70 nm-cm. It's the standard rate German kit makers use. British kits are more tailored to British roads with softer rates, and then you just use uprated ARBs to restore the roll control.

 

No suspension 'gets better', the moment you start using it, it's gradually deterioating.

[Chris Langdon 0]

The PI springs are only slightly softer than the Green H&Rs by feel, but it would be nice to compare the spring rates. I will put money on the H&Rs being 400 lb-in, or 70 nm-cm.

 

your spot on my H&R's are 70Nm's on the front and i think 50Nm's on the rear.When i have some spare money :shock: :roll: lol I wouldnt mind forking out for 60Nm's and 40's to make it a little softer for UK roads :wink:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

60nm / 40nm with the obligatory 2 finger gap (I'd go 3 fingers on 15s) works a lot better on our roads, imo, with a pair of ARBs. That's 325lb-in and 228lb-in in old money :D

 

The stiffer 70nm / 50nm springs hold the car up a little better round corners, but the resultant crashiness over bumps and lumps is horrible. Having some compliance in the suspension does actually make the car quicker point to point on windy, bumpy B roads. Well, so I've found on mine at least.

 

Without adjustable dampers, I'm not sure how effective sticking softer springs on will be, but if you have at least rebound adjustment, then there certainly will be some benefit :D

 

Coilover spring prices seem to have shot up a lot recently though :?

[Chris Langdon 0]

yep i know what you mean, mine are just fixed coilovers, with no adjustment or rebound do you think its still worth forking out Kev for softer springs without these adjustment.Dont get me wrong very please with the H&R stainless steel etc quality product, just could do with a fraction softer as you said for more compliance on B roads etc

[Kevin Bacon 5]

You can certainly try it mate. I haven't played with spring rates on non-adjustable dampers so I can't guarantee the results would be pleasing!

 

TBH, when you up the spring rates, you generally reduce the damping as the car isn't floating so softly, and vice versa with softer springs, so it will probably work out well anyway if the H&Rs were valved for 400lb springs.

[oknights 0]

I've just fitted some KW Street Sports (i think thats their name anyway) not THE cheapest KW do but when compared to most, I would class them as 'cheap' and they are actually a fairly decent ride. After reading this thread I was preparing myself for an awful ride but combined with new top mounts compared to my old shocks (Boge turbos and Sachs Supersports) its not that much different. The rear is a little bouncy but its not crashy or uncomfortable.

So there is my two pence on the matter! Quality of the kit to fit was fine but its still early days so I will keep you posted on future developments but I havn't had the car long and wanted to drop it a bit and sort the top mounts out so thought I may as well go for some coilies. And I will put some pics up once I have my new wheels on... :D

[UseOnceDestroy 0]

Right ... after reading 10 of the most recent pages ... I get the feeling that KW is the suspension to go for ...

 

I'd previously had a look on DG Autotech's website and that is what they are advertising ...

 

So to sum the 3 different variants up ...

 

Variant 1 is height adjustable ... and around £600

Variant 2 is height and dampening adjustable ... and around £1000

Variant 3 is height, dampening and rebound adjustable ...and around £1300

 

Now, I am a complete novice so I'm gonna need some help here ... :confused4:

 

What effect is adjustable dampening and rebound going to have? ... What exactly does it mean/do? ...

 

Is it really justifiable to spend an extra £400 or extra £700 for the different adjustable settings??

 

Also, I'd like to replace all the bushes while I'm at it ... Is there a definitive bush to use? ...

 

And one last thing, while changing the suspension and bushes ... Is there anything else that I should look at upgrading (within that area) ??

 

Cheers for your help :D

[dukest 0]

if you have a budget for coilovers then knock a good £400 off it for labour, alignment, top mounts all round and at least wishbone and rear axle bushes - whats left is what you can spend on the coilovers.

 

if you are considering V3s though then perhaps budget isnt such an issue and then it comes down to what you use the car for.

 

V1s make lots of people happy as you've seen, but if you're very particular about the car's set up then going up a level or two may be worth it. its just between you and your wallet at the end of the day, but its still preferable to err on the side of overkill for a little extra money than have to do it again later.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Consider the Gaz Gold coilover too, at £860 ish. That also has adjustable bump and rebound like the V3. Quality isn't up to KW's standards (although it has improved recently) but I really like how the oversize dampers perform on the road, and you can also specify any spring rate you like. You get what you're given with KWs.

 

If you want KW, the V3 gives the best ride quality and handling as the damper quality is up there with the best. V2 is a good middle ground. V1 is too hard and bouncy for my tastes, but a lot of people seem to like them.

 

Also consider Bilstein B12 @ £600 ish (not coilovers), Bilstein PSS (£1000 ish) and AST SPortline 1 (also £900 ish IIRC).

 

KW are popular, but certainly not the best and only choice available to you :D

 

If you don't understand bump and rebound, I would recommend you read up on it before spending this kind of money on suspension. Besides which, each method of damping has been discussed MANY times in this thread and on the forum :wink:

[UseOnceDestroy 0]

Thanks for the help lads, I'm going down to DG Autotech in a couple of weeks to find out a bit more, work a plan of action!! I got a quote on the following work, but will need to save the pennies first!!

 

KW Variant 1's £630 inc vat

Track rods, track rod ends and boots £180+ vat

Ball joints £48 + vat

R32 bushes £36+vat

Top mounts front and rear £90+vat

ARB links £36 +vat

Labour to fit all of the above £450+ vat (10 hours at £45 per hour + vat)

 

I definitely haven't got the budget for Variant 3's!!

[JonnyHull 0]

Hi Guys

 

I have a ‘95 VR which is totally standard. Up until now I have liked the standard look but recently the ridiculously high ride height has started to annoy me. :scratch:

 

I know this subject has been covered many times but I was just after a bit of guidance suspension wise. Current setup is OEM and has probably never been touched in its 15 years. Strangely though, the car rides really well with no crashing or knocking at all and the suspension seems to be in great condition. The car has done 95k.

 

What I’m after is a subtle drop of around 35-40mm just to make it look normal! I am no boy racer and quite like the current comfort levels. I know that lowering the car inevitably increases the stiffness and I quite like the idea of tightening the handling a bit. I really just want to know the best and most subtle way of doing it without upsetting the cars ride and looks too much. Essentially I want the car to still look quite standard but just sit better on it’s 15” speedlines.

 

As my current suspension seems to be in great nick, is it bad form to look simply at lowering springs? Will 15 year old OEM shocks just be awful on some 40mm lowering springs?

 

Coilovers aren’t really on my shopping list as I am not in need of adjustability or race spec handling. I have been thinking of Koni TA shocks and some H&R or PI springs, these seem to have gone down well in the past.

 

It’s probably good form to replace the top mounts irrespective of what I choose isn’t it?

 

Jon

[daleyboy 0]

It would be best to change all top mounts and replace the front top mounts bearings as well, i changed my suspension (from totally original to fk sportline coilovers) about the same time as you and have never looked back . If you have a good read of this thread you'll get good guidance, a good spring and t/a shock combo will transform how the car drives, you'll never regret getting rid of the 4x4 ride height..............and you'll never wallow round another corner again...............

[JonnyHull 0]

Ha ha, cheers for the advice. Yeh, I am kinda set on the spring + t/a combo now. Ill just do a bit of research into what has been the most successful on Vr's.

 

From experience, what am I looking at with regards to insurance premium increase. Currently have the car on a limited mileage Classic Car policy as I have another car so hopefully it won't make much difference?

[wy906 0]

Up until now I have liked the standard look but recently the ridiculously high ride height has started to annoy me. :scratch:

 

.........

 

Essentially I want the car to still look quite standard but just sit better on it’s 15” speedlines.

 

........

 

 

Exactly how I feel. The 4x4 ride height (esp at the rear) is kind of silly. :lol:

 

 

I think a subtle drop of 30mm would suit the car better. Or, maybe what I really need is drop of ride height AND 16" wheels? :shrug:

 

I'm just saving up at the moment for a set of coilover.

[A5 VRX 0]

So been reading all this and to be honest i've always liked the Wietecs Hicon GT, and have bought 3 sets previously but after reading this i'm unsure! So if i buy some coilovers what else do i need, i want to make her fresh and how it once was, so this is what i would think so please chip in if there is anything else

 

Coilovers

New wishbones

Ball joints

R32 Rear bushes

Rear axle bushes

Track rod ends

 

Anything else at all?

 

Thanks

 

Adam

[KipVR 1]

What effect is adjustable dampening and rebound going to have? ... What exactly does it mean/do? ...

 

There are two directions of damping within a shock absorber called bump and rebound, which are both adjustable on the V3

 

Bump is compressing the shock - ie when you hit a bump

 

Too little bump and the springs compress too fast causing too much lean in corners and less feedback.

Too much bump and you prevent the wheels from moving over bumps, so it feels crashy.

 

Rebound is extending the shock - ie when the spring pushes it back

 

Too little rebound and the spring is allowed to bounce back as hard as it was compressed- really crashy juddering ride.

Too much rebound and you'll prevent the suspension from having time to reset before the next bump, causing ratchetting.

 

The aim of a good suspension setup is to maintain tyre contact with the road as much as possible whilst moving the body of the car as little as possible. Making everything hard and limiting your travel will just make you hop and skip over bumps, which is both slower and uncomfortable. It's actually quite rare to find that a (new) standard setup is any worse than a coilover kit on a bumpy b road, as usually the car remains more composed over bumps due to the extra travel. But it does look sh1t and feel less sporty and isn't as good round the ring roads....

 

Unsprung weight playes a big part in handling, heavy wheels and big brakes carry more mass, which means they can't change direction so fast.

 

You also get fast and slow speeds of damping options, but that's for another day....