VR6 very lumpy idle, OBD2 T42 pinouts p.4

[fla 9]

As above, after fitting the 264 cams and obd2 the car is very lumpy at idle. Leads are new, just changed the plugs but when removing the leads to check if there is any effect on three cylinders there is none, ie it seems as though there is no ignition there. Engine tone stays the same. However, you can hear the spark jumping across so the coilpack seems to be ok.

I'll be filling with some fresh fuel, just in case that is a factor, but I dont really think so.

I'm going to try my old set of leads, but its a bit confusing that there is power to the plugs, they plugs are new (ngk).

 

The MAF is now connected as well.

Edited November 21, 2014 by fla

[easypops 8]

I know it's stating the obvious, but are you sure you have the leads in the right places in the coilpack? I got two mixed up once when I was hurrying

[Kevin Bacon 5]

So the spark is there to the non-firing cylinders (3 of them?!?). Are the 3 that are down all on the same bank, e.g. front or rear bank?

 

Firing order is:- 1, 5, 3, 6, 2, 4

 

Cylinder layout is:-

 

1_3_5

_2_4_6

 

Double check the coilpack, the cylinder numbers are embossed next to each post.

 

If not that, check your wiring because you've been in there and changed all the pins in the large multi-plug.

[fla 9]

I'll recheck the loom wiring but I hope (!) it's all correct.

Kev - its two cylinders on the rear bank and one at the front. I'm just thinking the injectors may be an issue - removed and cleaned and them but didn't check operation afterwards. Is there any way through vagcom to check the power and operation of the injectors and spark plugs?

 

Easypops - I've checked that but you're right its worth rechecking.

[fla 9]

bit of an update - leads are all correct, here are some observations regarding removal of each lead:

 

2 - spark between lead and head, engie note changes, tries almost to stall

4 - as 2, but doesn't try to stall.

6 - as 2, doesn't try to stall.

 

1 - spark between lead and head, very slight engine note change

3 - spark as 1, but no change in engine note

5 - as 3

 

Got a nice little shock as put my hand on the rocker cover whilst removing the lead! Perhaps frazzled a few remaining brain cells!

 

Started getting smoke in the engine bay which i thought was just oil that had dripped onto the exhaust, but this continued and got worse. Looked under the car to see the cat glowing red hot!

 

So i guess the cat is blocked? The car has been on a slight slope in our drive pointing downwards so maybe something has blocked the exhaust? Doesn't the cat normally glow if there is fuel being chucked down it? I'll check the spark plug condition tomorrow to get an idea of what's happening - these are brand new.

 

The rattling has subsided a little and there is 5 litres of fresh Esso fuel in there. Took a long time to crank which was probably because the fuel line needed to be primed - actually ran out of fuel, which was not bad considering it was about 9 months old...

[swiftkid 1]

When I had a problem with my ecu it was injecting constantly on 1 cylinder, and that caused the cat to glow. Have you had the plugs out? Might find they are drenched with fuel? Only a thought.

Are all your earth's on properly? Any cracks in your coilpack?

[fla 9]

good point - i'll run it again tomorrow and remove the sparks to see what's up.

Here's a pic of the cat after it had cooled down a bit!

 

I've also posted up another video of the engine - its quietened down quite a bit from there although the subaru-esque lumpiness is still very apparent.

 

http://s961.photobucket.com/user/violator001/media/20141111_150526.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0

Edited November 11, 2014 by fla

[swiftkid 1]

Hehe, that looks familiar!

 

[fla 9]

Mirror image! Looks like I should try another ECU then :(

[swiftkid 1]

I would isolate the problem first mate, take out spark plugs and check them over, if they smell of fuel you know it's either not sparking right or its injecting too much fuel. You might find a good clean up of the spark plugs might cure it.

When I was finding out my problem I took the fuel rail out and cranked it to see spray pattern (be careful as they should be pretty pressurised!), mine fired constantly on 1 injector.

But I wouldn't go buying things before finding out the problem

[fla 9]

Is there any way to use vagcom to carry out some tests? How did you check the injectors?

Is it just a question of removing the rail, disconnecting the coilpack and turning the engine over? How did you stop the fuel going everywhere?

Spark plugs are new and yesterday's run was the first time they were used.

As another point, was your cat still OK? Just hoping mine hasn't melted!!

[Dox 22]

I used a jump lead to check spark at the plug - the other end of the jump lead is earthed on the engine block

 

[fla 9]

Thanks Dox.

Started it up and it does sound smoother but after running it for around 5 mins I took the plugs out again. No smell of fuel but all were coated in carbon which I suppise is because it's running on the cold cycle. Drove it up and down the close (great!) but the unevenness is very apparent. Some pics of the plugs and the engine video:

 

http://s961.photobucket.com/user/violator001/media/20141112_132626.mp4.html

Edited November 12, 2014 by fla

[swiftkid 1]

Hmm, strange one. Just double check pins 10, 14, 15, 25, 32 & 33 are ok, they are the injector wires. Have you double checked chain timing? Doesn't seem like it would be that but worth checking.

Have you had it on vag com yet?

 

Also check pins 37, 38 & 39, they are you coilpack wires. 36 should be the earth (brown).

One more thing that has hit me, when you swapped cams did you put your cam position sensor on the correct cam, stupid question but it does happen... To idiots like me

Edited November 12, 2014 by swiftkid

[fla 9]

Thanks swift, will do. I think I put the cam sensor on correctly, I'll disconnect and see what happens. Do you by any chance have the wire colours for those pins?

Vagcom only threw up the maf and lambda errors (lambda still not connected but maf is now)

[Jon_vr6 1]

Sounds like the GF's VR when it was running on 5 cylinders. Took it to stealth and Vince took off the leads at the coilpack end one at a time putting them close enough to the coilpack connection to hear a spark. One of them didnt do anything so instantly knew that a ht lead had failed. Not saying thats your problem as you said they were new leads but might point out which cylinder isnt firing

[swiftkid 1]

Yea, as follows:

Injectors

1 - pin 25, grey

2 - pin 15, grey/green

3 - pin 14, grey/red

4 - pin 33, grey/blue

5 - pin 32, grey/black

6 - pin 10, grey/green

 

Coilpack wiring

Pin 1 brown - pin 36

Pin 2 black/brown - pin 37 to ecu pin 8

Pin 3 black/blue - pin 38 to ecu pin 60

Pin 4 black/purple - pin 39 to ecu pin 52

Pin 5 black - pin 40 to fusebox g1/4

 

Lambda and maf shouldn't cause that. Couple of other things to try, clean blue temp sensor out and make sure wiring is OK. Remove cam position sensor and give that a clean. Hopefully you'll sort it soon without much cost, shame you're so far away, would have been happy to pop round

[fla 9]

Yea, as follows:

Injectors

1 - pin 25, grey

2 - pin 15, grey/green

3 - pin 14, grey/red

4 - pin 33, grey/blue

5 - pin 32, grey/black

6 - pin 10, grey/green

 

Coilpack wiring

Pin 1 brown - pin 36

Pin 2 black/brown - pin 37 to ecu pin 8

Pin 3 black/blue - pin 38 to ecu pin 60

Pin 4 black/purple - pin 39 to ecu pin 52

Pin 5 black - pin 40 to fusebox g1/4

 

Lambda and maf shouldn't cause that. Couple of other things to try, clean blue temp sensor out and make sure wiring is OK. Remove cam position sensor and give that a clean. Hopefully you'll sort it soon without much cost, shame you're so far away, would have been happy to pop round

 

top man, many thanks again Swift, and for the kind words.

[fla 9]

Sounds like the GF's VR when it was running on 5 cylinders. Took it to stealth and Vince took off the leads at the coilpack end one at a time putting them close enough to the coilpack connection to hear a spark. One of them didnt do anything so instantly knew that a ht lead had failed. Not saying thats your problem as you said they were new leads but might point out which cylinder isnt firing

 

will do Jon, thanks

[swiftkid 1]

What I meant was the actual trigger wheel on the cog itself, I thought you said you swapped over the Cams when you did the obd2 swap?

[fla 9]

yes you're right. I think i swapped over the trigger wheel as well but its worth having a look again through the cam sensor opening.

Just scanned it and got a load of injector errors shorting to ground, so it looks like you and Haywire are right on the money with the wiring being up the spout. I'll check the colours with your list and post back

[fla 9]

two wires in the round connector (to the spark plugs) were incorrect, swopped them over and...........still running lumpy. Cleaned the spark plugs again, changed the leads to the old ones, disconnected the battery to help the ecu lose any old values. Didn't make any difference.

 

I had changed the injectors to another set that i had cleaned so it could be that there is some fault there. I'll be cleaning my original set and refitting them, but assuming that this doesn't make any difference i'm then a bit stumped.

[Sean_Jaymo 0]

It'll soon be time to hide the fire lighters and matches!

[swiftkid 1]

Your 3 wires for the coil are apparently as per picture below. If you've swapped wires and nothing has changed I'd suspect something isn't right there. Have you been through the ht leads again to see if they are sparking differently?

[fla 9]

Haha Sean, you may be right!

 

Swift - i pulled each lead from the coilpack end to check they were sparking and all checked out fine. I also used your wiring checklist and everything seems to be in order (now). I'll remove the inlet manifold to see i've not connected the injectors incorrectly. Do you think its worth swopping back to my old set of injectors ie if these are at fault would they exhibit this behaviour?

As all spark plugs are sooting up, i would assume that all injectors are working, no?