What is this noise? Piston slap? (VR6) - maybe not the end of the world..

[corrado wannabe 10]

Ask trading standards Jim, or your local citizens advice.

 

Who knows where you stand legally in terms of time and ,mileage etc, but they will be able to give you a steer.

 

At the end of the day, you paid a company money to carry out a service for you, if it is not up to scratch then it does not matter if the individual is a former or current member of this community.

 

However, I think the correct approach is to do all the background stuff offline as it probably wont do any good to name and shame if you have no legal recourse to a refund etc.

 

Good luck with it though, as you have not had your problems to seek with the car over the last wee while.

 

On a happier note, how is living with the Fiesta getting on? You still enjoying it?

 

Dougie

[VAG-hag 0]

I'd second that suggestion of trading standards/ citizens advice. Sorry Jim I wasn't wanting to open a witch hunt or debate but this smacks of job not fit for purpose so could sit on my hands no more.

Not personal. Business.

 

I too am very friendly with the brains behind that garage but would not take my car after he left..... Really hope you can some support with this.

[Jim Bowen 1]

I bought one of them mechanics stetstethoscopes. Only a cheapo one but it's amazing. Can really pin a noise down to an area with it. It helped me work out something was wrong with my clutch.

 

I also have a spare engine if it's of any use to you. It has no cams.

 

I got fed up with noises and decided to build a new one up. So still have my original engine and one i bought off the forum to use for a year. You could have that for nothing.

[robrado974 1]

Christ I hope it's not piston slap and turns out to be something simple . I have to agree with Vaghag , people work so hard for their dough to spend on things they want . If the job that's done is not up to standard , then it needs to be sorted .

Really hope you get this sorted Jim .

[Jim 1]

Thanks all. I think for a while when the noises were nothing more than 'a bit of a rattle when cold', etc lots of folks were saying it was normal but I don't think it was being a perfectionist to say that given it was a full rebuild, it should be as close to 'new' as possible. But it was clearly not improving each time I drove it and now this development only goes to reaffirm that all is not well internally.

 

I guess the only problem is that time is not really on my side. It's been over a year since the work was done, but then only about 5,000 miles.. so no idea where I'd stand in terms of any recourse.

 

Jim Bowen - I may take you up on that longer term. Let me know if you need to get rid and I'll decide if I can arrange the logistics to pick it up or similar. It's an extremely kind offer and I would be happy to give you some money for it - I wouldn't be able to accept it as a freebie I don't think! Conveniently I have some original VR6 cams sitting in my garage so that wouldn't be an issue there :)

 

I think step one is to get the car to Stealth and get them to appraise it as it runs right now. But that's going to be a while I think as I just don't have the pennies for now.

[axcel01uk 0]

Hi Jim

Just a thought, if you paid for the rebuild using a credit card you could consider a claim against your credit card provider under section 75 of the consumer credit act. The fact that you had the work done a year ago isn't an issue as there is no time limit in making a claim under section 75 (you only need to take into account the statute of limitations and in the UK this is six years).

To progress a successful claim under section 75 you will normally need to get an independent report done to verify the work was not of an acceptable standard. It may cost a few hundred quid to get someone like Stealth to do the report, but I am sure the cost of the rebuild was significantly more so at the end of the day it will hopefully be worth paying for the report if it leads to a full refund.

The fact the business is no longer trading is also a good thing as normally the credit card provider will initially spend time trying to resolve it directly with the business so the fact they cant do this will speed up the process.

Al

[Jim 1]

Hmm.. I did pay on a credit card, but have subsequently cleared it and cancelled it. I'm guessing that wouldn't help in this situation? That's extremely useful information though and may be worth pursuing.

[GlosterOx 0]

Very good suggestion, maybe worth persuing Jim? - Sorry overlapped your reply.

 

Ian.

[axcel01uk 0]

The fact that the card is closed should not make a difference according to this link. http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.which.co.uk%2Fconsumer-rights%2Fregulation%2Fsection-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act&ei=k_hxVeenD8fXUdbqg5AO&usg=AFQjCNGpJT58E7K3li3VqQuYpYZykSRtxg

 

Were you supplied with receipts detailing the work and costs etc ? as you will definitely need to provide all documents to the credit card company.

 

A friend of mine recently purchased a duff second hand fiesta, she had no joy in resolving it with the car dealer so she made a claim under section 75. It took a while and she had to get a report to prove the car was defective but she received a full refund from her credit card company under section 75. Its definitely worth a shot Jim.

 

I just hope that it can be identified that something has not been carried out on the rebuild work correctly as this is the key fact. If an independent report can verify the problem and you have a receipt to show that the defective part was replaced as part of the rebuild, or it can be verified the work was generally substandard, then I think you may have a good chance in getting your money back.

Edited June 5, 2015 by axcel01uk

[Jim 1]

Well that's sort of another issue. I was promised a comprehensive breakdown of what was done in the rebuild. I'd asked for this for my box of receipts, primarily really for any future owner (in the event I ever sold the car on) so I could show them what was done. I chased it a number of times, but ultimately never got this. I just got a basic receipt on the companies headed paper that says 'Engine rebuild' and the amount paid.

 

This in many respects won't help me as it won't make clear what was asked for nor what was delivered really :(

 

This is tough really as I don't feel there was any intention to deceive and I'd like to believe the work was carried out to the highest possible standard and I've most likely just been the victim of bad luck.

[axcel01uk 0]

A friend of mine works for the financial ombudsman service as an adjudicator, her role is specifically dealing with and deciding the outcome of section 75 complaints that cant be resolved between consumers and banks etc. I will have a word with her on Monday and will get some guidance as to whether she believes you may still have a case bearing in mind the limited information on the receipt and that the business is no longer trading.

[Dox 22]

Why not let Vince have a listen and check oil pressure is within spec? Are youstill running it in on cheap oil or are you on semi or synthetic?

[Jim 1]

I'm not sure what oil it was run in on. I think Shell Helix 10w40 was used?! I've since switched back to Synta Silver 10w40.

[MarkFoster 0]

Such rotten luck Jim! I honestly hope you find course for redress sooner rather than later.

 

MF

[fla 9]

A lot of garages employ trainees to keep costs down but they dont usually take pride in what they do. Not saying that that wad the case here, but hope you get a satisfactory conclusion. As above I'm sure vince would be an ideal point of contact or even crazydave now he's back in harness.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Well that's sort of another issue. I was promised a comprehensive breakdown of what was done in the rebuild. I'd asked for this for my box of receipts, primarily really for any future owner (in the event I ever sold the car on) so I could show them what was done. I chased it a number of times, but ultimately never got this. I just got a basic receipt on the companies headed paper that says 'Engine rebuild' and the amount paid.

 

Did the engine number stay the same after the 'rebuild'? Just wondering if they bought an engine in from one of those engine supermarket places, who just paint the block red and sell them as refurbed.

[Jim 1]

Not sure Kev - but pretty sure it was the original motor, especially as lots of identical / familiar rattles and noises at certain revs all returned with in a few months of the rebuild.

 

Chatted to a good friend this weekend and he suggested dropping the oil to look for metal shavings. Going to do that I reckon.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Worth double checking on your V5 mate, just to be sure as it might explain the elusiveness of the broken down invoice!!

[Roger Chatfield 0]

Dropping the oil sounds like a good idea, have a good look in the filter and see if there is any metal in there.

If you look at my car thread there are some pics of what I found when my bottom end went, I know your problem may be different but it might give you a clue.

Also maybe consider pulling the rocker cover off and removing a few of the cam caps, I'd check the ones near the chain, if the chain tensioner has been incorrectly the chain can be over tensioned and the cam bearings can suffer (don't ask how I know this...) this can lead to a fair bit of top end noise.

And.. How are your oil temps, high temps can indicate bearing damage (again don't ask how I know this...)

 

Jim, as others have said I really feel for you mate, I hope you can sort this out, be a shame to have the VR off the road and having met you a few time I can honestly say you don't deserve this bad luck.

 

Rog.

[Jim 1]

Cheers Rog - appreciate the thoughts. Temperatures have been fine all along.. low 100's for general driving around town and about 106-108 on the motorway.

 

I do remember the problems you had pretty vividly - I'll go back through your thread for a read.

[robrado974 1]

Just a thought . It may be wise to leave it alone . I'm not in any way suggesting that you have been taken and been ripped off , but if you found something , put it back together , went to workshop and told them they may say , why have you tampered with it . We've all seen program's on TV and had experiences of company's that will say " you've messed with it , warranty is now invalid " , they only need the smallest excuse to get out of sorting the problem , that they know is going to cost them . Like I said , it's just a thought . Good luck with this Jim . I hope you can sort this mess out with the least amount of hassle .

[Jim 1]

Well - I did have a crashing realisation the other night, which hadn't occurred to me at all in the last few weeks. Of course since getting the car back I haven't done any fiddling with the engine... apart from changing the inlet manifold over, which I'd had media blasted. I did give it a good blast out with a pressure washer (and of course dried it) prior to putting it on the car, but it's making me wonder if some grit or swarf left over from the process ended up getting into the intake somehow :(

 

Either way given that I've changed that part, I would imagine it pretty much immediately eliminates any recourse I may have had, and ultimately may have just been my own stupid fault. And this is why I generally prefer to leave car tinkering to the experts. Doing the job is one thing, but it's understanding the repurcussions and outcomes of what happens if you don't do the job properly..

 

Got a knowledgable friend coming over this Sunday to have a listen to the motor, and who will also hopefully be borrowing a boroscope in the coming weeks to inspect the bores.

[fla 9]

I'd be surprised if that were the cause jim. Those pressure washers don't really leave much there and I'm sure you would have been pretty thorough. It does seem as though the issue is elsewhere and not something you've done.

[Dox 22]

If the bores were heavily scored from media debris then the car would burn huge amounts of oil.

 

What fuel do you run the car on?

[Jim 1]

Always (and for the last 3 years at least) 97RON or better. So generic super unleaded if I have no choice, otherwise Optimax / Tesco Momentum.