Bleeding VR6 brakes

[Mawrick 0]

not had any luck bleeding it yet. the fluid container was never bleed down totaly so presume the master to be ok.

 

Can't say I could find a bleed valve on it though (only one pipe going in and another going out).

 

Gona try to pump fluid into the bleed valve of the slave, and take the air out thru the container........had a tip that might work better.

 

Hopefully will turn out ok :)

[Mawrick 0]

Just thought I'd give a little feedback on how I finaly was able to bleed out the clutch.

 

I filled a squezable plastic bottle with brake fluid. Connected a trasnparent hose to it and connected the hose to the bleed niple of the slace cylinder.

 

Made sure that the hose was empty of air - filled with brake fluid. Opened up the lid on the brake fluid container on the car.

 

Held some presure on the bottle, and opened the bleed valve. Squeezed in brake fluid, and made sure not to let any air bobles get into the cylinder - had to close the nipple a few times and take of the hose again to let new air into the bottle and then do the same thing over again.

 

Now it seem's like it's working properly - will do a small bleed out again later on (the normal way) - just to make sure all air is out.

 

When I did this - bleeding the clutch was a matter of minutes work - after fiddling trying to get it to work for hours the "normal" way...:(

 

Hopefully might be of help to a few people now and then :)

[krishen 2]

Are there any symptoms that show you need to bleed the clutch? Looking at doing my brakes and pas pump so might add clutch to the list.

[Mawrick 0]

Don't think you'd normally have to do it - I guess why mine went to he*** was that the slave cylinder was disconnected from engine, as engine was out. Also think the clutch pedal was pressed down engaging it, and I guess that might have caused air to get into the system.

 

If it works I wouldn't start messing with it ;)

[RW1 0]

Are there any symptoms that show you need to bleed the clutch? Looking at doing my brakes and pas pump so might add clutch to the list.

The reason for doing it is the fluid is common to the brake circuits so effectively you are leaving "old" fluid in the system. This will contain moisture which will cross contaminate given time via the reservoir.

 

As previous, did mine this week as part of the brake system change. No problems. Took about 10 minutes.

Vacuum out fluid initially, then left the tube connected to the slave and pumped the pedal (holding it all the time!) a few times slowly to push bvrake fluid up the tube (no vacuum). Then nipped up the slave valve with the head of fluid still in place.

 

Mawrick, can only think there been an air lock with yours.

 

.

[Mawrick 0]

yea it must have been - the pedal was all dead, as long as there is fluid in the system and no air, I guess it shouldn't be much of a problem bleeding it though...;)

 

With air - completely different game :) (but the method I described above worked good, and was able to fix it in roughly 15 minutes or so)...;)

[RW1 0]

Just a post note for those who will use a Vacuum Bleeding System method like I do.

 

I always find that air is drawn into the bleed valve area of the caliper no matter how little the valve is loosened. Air is drawn in via the thread of the bleed valve/caliper hole.

 

After nipping up the bleed valve, I remove the vacuum attachment. Then re-open the valve and catch the brake fluid with a paper kitchen towel. Gravity will make the fluid gently run out (providing the brake fluid reservoir position is above the level of the caliper). Any air bubbles around the valve in caliper will pop out and usually do!. Allow about 1cc to come out and look for air bubbles. If OK, re-tighten. I also do this again about a week later.

 

Just refreshed the system as said. Brakes a little soft on test. Undid each bleed valve again, ..... the front left, one small air bubble.

 

If the fluid didn't run out under gravity in the past, each time I found it to be an internally collapsed rubber brake hose.

 

.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Thread revival time!

 

I've replaced the front 2 rigid brake lines (ABS pump to inner wing) and fitted 288s etc, but the pedal is still spongey after bleeding the two calipers.

 

I never usually get involved with brakes as I hate bleeding. I am doing it right aren't I? I.e. open caliper nippled, press brake pedal down, close nipple, let pedal go back up, repeat?

 

Did that loads of times and no air came out, so I'm not sure where the air is trapped :?

 

Any hints or tips? :D

[Mawrick 0]

Thread revival time!

 

I've replaced the front 2 rigid brake lines (ABS pump to inner wing) and fitted 288s etc, but the pedal is still spongey after bleeding the two calipers.

 

I never usually get involved with brakes as I hate bleeding. I am doing it right aren't I? I.e. open caliper nippled, press brake pedal down, close nipple, let pedal go back up, repeat?

 

Did that loads of times and no air came out, so I'm not sure where the air is trapped :?

 

Any hints or tips? :D

 

 

I would make sure that the nipple is closed, then apply some pressure and open nipple slowly, make sure to close it before the pedal is all the way down.

 

You might want to use a hose into a bottle from the bleed niple (where the hose goes into bottle and tip of it sits under brake fluid - so it won't get air back into the system......

[Mawrick 0]

Maybe not so important to close it before it hits floor.

 

This video explain a bit:

 

[youtube:2tiikiir]LgxMfQUMdJY[/youtube:2tiikiir]

[RW1 0]

Did that loads of times and no air came out, so I'm not sure where the air is trapped :?

 

Any hints or tips? :D

 

1) Have you got the Corrado on the level when doing it.

 

2) Have you opened the 3 bleed nipples not on the calipers

a) Brake master cylinder

b) two on ABS unit.

Corrado on the level and these will self-bleed under gravity so no need to pump the pedal.

 

Be careful pumping the pedal, too frequent and to long a stroke, can cause heat and the seals in the master cylinder pop given their age. Always best to push/pull the fluid out with a bleeder on an older car/part.

 

.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

LOL, well Captain Moron of Moronsville strikes again. I had mistakenly fitted the calipers with bleed nipples were pointing down :roll: :lol:

 

All sorted now and the 288s are, well, 288s :lol:

 

Cheers guys

[RW1 0]

You are not the first this year though! :lol:

 

.

[fla 9]

i'm struggling with this atm. Two issues in fact - the bolt for the banjo to the caliper - how tight should this be? I'm concerned about it shearing off, although i've used copper washers both above & below the banjo. Used an 11mm spanner but just afarid to tigten it too much. There was a very slight leak yesterday evening, even though i had nipped the bolt up as far as i felt comfortable.

 

Secondly, as above, I've bled the fronts, no bubbles but the pedal goes down to the floor and feels VERY spongey. Will bleed the whole system again today, but any other advisories? Is it necessary to bleed the rears too? The 2 bleed nipples on the ABS unit - these need to be done too? How much fluid should i bleed out for these two points after there are no bubbles?

[tony_ack 0]

It needs to be pretty tight. Clean up the caliper surface where it contacts with the washer if you're having issues. If everything is clean and you have the correct new washers, and it is still leaking a little, then tighten it a little! You're using an 11mm spanner so it'll take a fair amount of heaving with that to snap the bolt.

 

For the bleeding, you should really bleed the entire system as the fronts and rears share a common (cross) circuit. Follow the bleeding guides on here - left rear, right rear, left front, right front, ABS pump, master cylinder. Make sure you either force open the bias valve when doing the rears, or bleed the rears with the car on the ground (fairly easy access to the rear bleed nipples from behind the car).

 

I found mine pretty spongey after I did them, though not as bad as yours. I also did the rear caliper seals, so had to bleed the whole system. I then drove around for a week, and the brakes slowly improved. I bled the rears again this weekend, and they're much better now.

 

I don't remember the exact figures for bleeding, but I think there should be about 200ml out of the rears, and about half that for the fronts. There shouldn't be much fluid between the master cylinder and ABS pump.

[fla 9]

Ok thanks for that. Is it ok to just reverse on to ramps and access the rear brake from there so the wheels dont have to come off again?

[tony_ack 0]

Yep, you don't even need ramps, you can access the rear bleed nipples with the wheels on and the car on the ground.

[fla 9]

Thanks Tony. Tried getting at the bleed nipples on the ground but they were pretty solid so rolled it on the ramps. Still couldnt quite get access so i'll have to have a go tomorrow. No doubt i'll run into more problems. I certainly envy you guys who can get these relatively simple jobs done in an afternoon, when the same takes me a couple of days...

[daves16v 1]

I did mine a few weeks back after replacing the front and rear rigid and flexi lines. I did it with ignition on, jack rear up and remove near side wheel (purely for accessibility and the same for the other 3 wheels), bleed, move onto rear offside, then front nearside, then front offside (note - working furthest from reservoir). My pedal feel and stopping performance is just excellent, I do have 288's with VAG pads and discs and braided hoses all round though.

[fla 9]

Did you press the brake bias valve in when doing the rears? When you jacked the rear up, was it supported on both sides (ie rear axle straight) or just one at a time? Thanks

[daves16v 1]

Did you press the brake bias valve in when doing the rears? When you jacked the rear up, was it supported on both sides (ie rear axle straight) or just one at a time? Thanks

 

No, I didn't touch the brake bias valve, at the end of the day you're trying to push fluid out so it shouldn't matter what position the valve is sat at as long as you're getting flow.

 

Jacked up one side at a time.

[skid 1]

I had problems doing my system today, i notice there are 2 bleed nipples on top of the ABS pump.

Should these be bled?

Would it have made a differance, but i never had one of the rear ABS sensors plugged in when i bled the circuit

[fla 9]

have done about 100 miles after fitting, the feel has improved but not immensly so - does it need to be bled again? If so, is that all bleed points (F&R, ABS and brake master cylinder)?

[RW1 0]

H.,

 

What are your back bearings like? Put it in gear, handbrake off. Then put your foot on the top of each rear tyre and rock it into/out of the wheel arch. It you feel or hear clunking as the wheel & disc rock about, the bearings are too slack. I had one rear wheel slack like this just a couple of months ago. Only a slight movement. Adjusted the bearing to take out the movement so it didn't clunk, while leaving it still free to rotate. Pedal firmed up quite a bit.

 

Could be you are chasing this, hence why the bleeding isn't going any further.

 

If it is, whats happening is the taper bearing slackness is allowing the disc to move sideways and push the two brake pads away from the disc surface. So the pedal has to travel further to take up the gap before it becomes firm. One side is enough to soften the pedal travel.

 

C.

[Wullie 1]

H.,

 

What are your back bearings like? Put it in gear, handbrake off. Then put your foot on the top of each rear tyre and rock it into/out of the wheel arch. It you feel or hear clunking as the wheel & disc rock about, the bearings are too slack. I had one rear wheel slack like this just a couple of months ago. Only a slight movement. Adjusted the bearing to take out the movement so it didn't clunk, while leaving it still free to rotate. Pedal firmed up quite a bit.

 

Could be you are chasing this, hence why the bleeding isn't going any further.

 

If it is, whats happening is the taper bearing slackness is allowing the disc to move sideways and push the two brake pads away from the disc surface. So the pedal has to travel further to take up the gap before it becomes firm. One side is enough to soften the pedal travel.

 

C.

 

Aha, strange you should mention this. I changed the front caliperss on mine and was having the same problem until after a routine poke around I adjusted loose rear wheel bearings. Good call there.