Steering rack issues solutions and swaps....

[Geo 0]

Ok I'll try and explain to you where they go.

 

If you imagine where the bolt goes up through the wishbone rear bush the sleeve should fit into that hole before the bolt goes in. As Jay said they are longer than the wishbone bush sleeve is deep so they stick out either side and hold the bush in place in the subframe to act as a guide for the bolt.

 

Look at part number 8 in this picture, it is described as a 'fitting sleeve'

 

http://www.auto2.ru/epc/etka/B067/097100.png

[PhatVR6 0]

I really haven't got time to read the whole thread, but may I point out that just aout EVERYONE on this forum has a lowered car.

 

so the track rods on all our cars are running at a non-factory angle, i.e. pointing upwards. so how can you possibly expect them to work perfectly???

 

Anyone got a totally standard car that DOESN'T have any steering rack issues?

[Geo 0]

My golf doesn't have any issues and is standard, it's not a corrado admittedly but it uses largely the same parts.

 

I suppose what you are saying makes sense, if the car is lowered then the forces on the steering rack will be totally different than the designers took into account when designing the mounts etc.

[dr_mat 0]

I don't have a lowered car. And I don't have steering rack issues. I think it's something else...

[PhatVR6 0]

top mounts? ball joints?

 

even my mk4 had stiff steering when it's been parked up all night and I turn the wheel for the first time, aftert hat it's fine.

[VRTrickster 0]

Ok Ithink Ive finally got it they are thin cylinders that slide into the thicker bush cylinder on the bone pushed through the hole after the wbone is in place aligning the holes?

Got there in the end cheers ! Do you think these make much difference I suppose it should stiffen them up in theory?

[slimtim 0]

I have replaced wishbones, balljoints, topmounts and shocks mainly with non-VAG stuff (original ride height) and it was fine for about a year. Now it's pulling to the left slightly and knocking over bumps and when I reverse off the drive.

 

I did get hold of two sleeves to fit with the new wishbones but as the originals I was removing didn't have them, I didn't bother. The new wishbones seemed to be a positive fit.

 

Having said that, the rear wishbone bolt isn't a tight fit in the bonded bush sleeve - I reckon we need some thicker sleeves machined up to remove the chance of the wishbone moving in the horizontal.

 

Here's the VAG alignment? sleeve.

[24V Renshaw 0]

has anyone got the definative torque settings for the subframe/wishbone bolts on a VR. The Bentley ones seem very low to me??

 

jay

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I've always done them to 90lbs plus an extra shove for good measure.

 

The smaller ones that clamp the ARB bushes and go into the floor obviously need a lot less!

[davidwort 0]

...

 

Here's the VAG alignment? sleeve.

 

yep, that's the golf 2 part number 191 407 190 A, but it's not listed as a part for the Corrado on ETKA, only for the golf, although the Corrado diagram does show the part as they use the generic diagram for both.

They never came with my new bushes and the original vag ones on the car didn't have them in, I had the car for 10 years and believe me, they were the original bushes!

It's also interesting that polos, passats etc from around the same date onwards don't even have a part like that at all in their diagrams.

 

On the suspension/steering noise issues, I totally agree that when cars have been lowered and fitted with a variety of new parts, some OEM, some pattern and some uprated it's likely that strange noises and problems will occur. I find it amazing that some cars handle well at all, as even with a limited drop on eibachs my car sits with the wishbones level, rather than pointing down as the design intended. Slam a Corrado on ride-height coilovers and your wishbones will be pointing skyward.

 

David.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

OK just checked with the main man Vince, and he says only the MK2 platform used the sleeves.

 

MK3 plus axle based cars don't use sleeves because the metal part of the bush locates into a horse shoe in the subframe. MK2 subframes don't and you need a sleeve.

 

He didn't outrule the possibility of using sleeves on the plus axle subframes but said it's more aggro than it's worth as they're too easy to break during fitment on the MK2 platform, let alone the plus subframe that doesn't even need them....but it would be a good experiment. We're fitting some Vibratechnics rear wishbone bushes on the 24th, so we'll try it then.

 

He suggested finding the captive nuts under the carpets and getting a mate to feel them for clunking when backing off drives etc. If the knock can't be felt on the captive nuts, then it's not bush slack causing the problem.

[24V Renshaw 0]

Can you get at the captive nuts inside? I figured they would be in the chassis legs?

 

Jay

[24V Renshaw 0]

Can't see them inside mine. :) :wink:

[24V Renshaw 0]

Although looking closely there looks like there are some removeable covers in the floor?

 

jay

[dr_mat 0]

They are, after all, "captive"... But it would be an ultra-uncool design if they were welded into the chassis and then completely inaccessible. Writing off a car for busting one of these bolts would be uncool..

[davidwort 0]

OK just checked with the main man Vince, and he says only the MK2 platform used the sleeves.

 

MK3 plus axle based cars don't use sleeves because the metal part of the bush locates into a horse shoe in the subframe. MK2 subframes don't and you need a sleeve.

 

Well that explains the lack of a part number for the Corrado then.

But it's all corrado's and not just the plus axle, as the early 16v corrado subframe definitely has the horse-shoe.

 

David.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Jay, pretty sure you should see some large grommets somewhere, which you pop out to reveal the captive nuts.

[24V Renshaw 0]

Although looking closely there looks like there are some removeable covers in the floor?

 

jay

 

Thats what I said. So I assume they prise out and you can get through to the captive nuts.

Surely if they are moving though they would no longer be captive, unless they are in cages rather than welded to the shell?

 

Jay

[CoxyLaad 0]

they arent welded to the shell thats for certain, cos it can be a right knacker trying to get the thread started when the nuts are wobbling and sliding about inside

[Andy T 0]

Well, since replacing my PAS pump hasn't solved my initially-heavy-steering-when-cold problem I'll have to assume that the valves in the rack are dodgy. I only have the problem in the winter months so it's definitely related to low temperatures. Incidentally, the car hasn't ever lost a drop of PAS fluid.

 

To confirm...are we saying that any Corrado PAS rack will fit a 1.8 16v with the right UJ?

 

The vr6 has a wider track (not just because of wheel offsets either), won't that be a problem? and are the number of turns 'lock-to-lock' different between models? elsewher its been mentioned that the vr rack requires more pressure from the pump, and that the fittings are different.

[24V Renshaw 0]

The "wide track" part is created by the track rods and not the rack itself.

The lock to lock turns I am going to investigate when my new SEAT rack arrives and do a direct comparison to the spare VR one I have. Side by side.

The pipe unions are the same. Pump pressure I have yet to establish, but enough people have VR's running in MK2's with MK2 racks and VR pumps....

 

Jay

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Although looking closely there looks like there are some removeable covers in the floor?

 

jay

 

Thats what I said. So I assume they prise out and you can get through to the captive nuts.

Surely if they are moving though they would no longer be captive, unless they are in cages rather than welded to the shell?

 

Jay[/quote:aae2a]

 

A question mark at the end of a sentence denotes uncertainty, I was merely confirming..... no need to be so pedantic.

 

Captive doesn't necessarily mean rigidly mounted.... the door striker pins are captive aren't they, but are free to move to allow adjustment.

 

Same with the subframe nuts.... they are 'captive' in cages (as you say) to allow alignment and self centering of the bolts.

[Andy T 0]

I really haven't got time to read the whole thread, but may I point out that just aout EVERYONE on this forum has a lowered car.

 

so the track rods on all our cars are running at a non-factory angle, i.e. pointing upwards. so how can you possibly expect them to work perfectly???

 

Anyone got a totally standard car that DOESN'T have any steering rack issues?

 

yes, but I have owned/driven mk2 gti's with lowered suspension in varying degree's, with higher milage than my C, and never come across the steering lock 'clunk' that the C suffers from. With early C's suspension/steering being the same/very similar to that of mk2's, I can't see it being track rod angles, it's surely got to be something unique to the C?

[dr_mat 0]

I have had a suspicion for some time that the subframe is moving and that's what's causing all these problems (in fact, I mentioned it to Vince last summer)..

The subframe -> chassis mount point is the only bit that's "corrado-specific", too.

[24V Renshaw 0]

mmm. I reckon I will have a look under those grommets at some point.

 

Jay