performance of 24V vs 12V with 262/3/4s?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

 

with all that extra flow in the 24v head I bet it would turbo well......

 

Plus you'd get that nice chopped up turbo noise!

 

They do turbo well!

 

I've seen a stock 2.8 24v with 1.06 35R make 500whp @ 18psi, which is 50+ more hp than a 12v with the same turbo and management!

[herisites 0]

Some day I will turbo mine, might be while now I'm a homeowner :(

[A1 VR6 0]

Some day I will turbo mine, might be while now I'm a homeowner :(

 

As someone said the other day Rob - you can sleep in a car but can't drive a house :lol:

[Bullfinch 0]

It's also worth mentioning the 12V fitted with an OBD2 set-up. Mine has so much more torque at low rpm than an OBD1 12V, and is loads of fun to drive on the twisties without ragging the nuts off it.

 

I've never driven a 24V obviously so I can't compare, but if you want to have more torque without a 24V conversion then I would definitely recommend going OBD2 on the 12V, maybe combine it with some mild(ish) cams and a remap and you'd be well away :D

 

OBD2 - another acronym I know very little about :scratch: . What does this involve - it is some kind of ECU style re-chip? I also vaguely gather this "thing" was on very late spec VR6 Golfs in 1996. Keep it simples for me folks :D

[dukest 0]

its a later, more modern and efficient management system which uses information and controls the engine in a superior way to obd1. it uses a number of different parts under the bonnet (throttle body, maf, engine loom etc) and the different engine loom connects to a different ecu. you can buy the bits from later golf vr6s (95-98) but the real effort is tailoring and installing the replacement loom for the corrado which, if you pay a garage to do it for you is a good 2 days work.

 

worthwhile from a performance improvement perspective though as you've read already!

[mort1414 0]

do throttle bodies change the sound of the 12v much?

[dukest 0]

like 6 individual throttle bodies? it makes them sound like absolute monsters as far as i'm aware! there are some youtube vids out there that you can listen to.

[coullstar 0]

 

with all that extra flow in the 24v head I bet it would turbo well......

 

Plus you'd get that nice chopped up turbo noise!

 

They do turbo well!

 

I've seen a stock 2.8 24v with 1.06 35R make 500whp @ 18psi, which is 50+ more hp than a 12v with the same turbo and management!

 

Mmmm that would be fun in the Golf.

[Flexso 0]

I have had both rado vr6 and R32 now and I will vote 12v for sound definitely. BUT!!!!! that does not mean a 24v doesnt sound nice. My R32 is completely standard bar K&N induction and when you rev it, it sounds like thunder.

 

Also I dont believe that 12v NA 'eat' 24v for breakfast. Standard they are statistically slower. Also I understand bananawhips is an exception due to the amount he spent on it but I still dont believe with that spec that it is seriously faster than a R32 for example.

[bananawhip 0]

Also I dont believe that 12v NA 'eat' 24v for breakfast. Standard they are statistically slower. Also I understand bananawhips is an exception due to the amount he spent on it but I still dont believe with that spec that it is seriously faster than a R32 for example.

 

Never said standard ones eat them for breakfast, there's not a great deal in it standard with the R32 coming out on top

 

Mine though has no trouble

 

240ish BHP, 1500kg's, 4wd power losses

 

236BHP (before the Schrick and a few other bits), 1200kg's, 2WD power losses

 

I've battered enough (including a mk5 on the Autobahn) to know there's really not a comparison

 

Just winds me up that the R32 has some weird reputation for being an absolute weapon when in the grand scheme of things they aren't, I'd have one over something like an astra VXR all day long but for the R32 speed is not their forte.

 

Think they should've made an R32R, like Renault did, lose the massive seats, headlight washers, fat heavy calipers etc etc and make a lightweight version, that would be cool. Slap an R36 bottom and on and a VF kit and it would destroy pretty much anything it came across :clap:

[mort1414 0]

i agree had both a r32 and a vr corrado dont think the corrado is far behind the r32 if at all inless its wet so any vr corrado with a few tweekes would be alot faster than a standard r32.

 

mort

[dukest 0]

a remap on an R32 gets you a lot more power than a remap on a VR though doesnt it? doesn't herisites one run around 280 brake? I'm sure PeteGriff's was up near the 300 mark too..

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Just winds me up that the R32 has some weird reputation for being an absolute weapon when in the grand scheme of things they aren't, I'd have one over something like an astra VXR all day long but for the R32 speed is not their forte.

 

Think they should've made an R32R, like Renault did, lose the massive seats, headlight washers, fat heavy calipers etc etc and make a lightweight version, that would be cool. Slap an R36 bottom and on and a VF kit and it would destroy pretty much anything it came across :clap:

 

I'd rather have a base model Astra 1.6 than an Astra VXR :lol: VXRs are terrible cars, unless it's the mighty Monaro of course. Even the Corsa VXR is a better car than the Astra!

 

Agreed on the R32R, but VW's customers don't really want deck chairs and cling film windows in their cars. There's plenty available in the aftermarket to cater for those tastes, in fact, the VW aftermarket tuning industry is probably bigger than VW itself :D

 

I think the R32 having a reputation for being slow (and it does in rival hot hatch circles) is kind of cool because those up for turboing them will have the last laugh - and the traction to go with it :D

[herisites 0]

a remap on an R32 gets you a lot more power than a remap on a VR though doesnt it? doesn't herisites one run around 280 brake? I'm sure PeteGriff's was up near the 300 mark too..

 

Yep, 278bhp and it's running std management with a remap and no cats! When funds allow though I will be going back to Vince for a proper map as mine is currently borrowed from another R32 conversion so there might even be a few more ponies in there yet!

[bananawhip 0]

I'd rather have a base model Astra 1.6 than an Astra VXR VXRs are terrible cars, unless it's the mighty Monaro of course. Even the Corsa VXR is a better car than the Astra!

 

Agreed on the R32R, but VW's customers don't really want deck chairs and cling film windows in their cars. There's plenty available in the aftermarket to cater for those tastes, in fact, the VW aftermarket tuning industry is probably bigger than VW itself

 

I think the R32 having a reputation for being slow (and it does in rival hot hatch circles) is kind of cool because those up for turboing them will have the last laugh - and the traction to go with it

 

Never realised the Astra was no good, all I know is they're annoyingly quick as standard, and if the chav next to me at the lights has a Regal sticker on his then it's probably gonna wipe the floor with me, not when I finally get the charger sorted :clap:

 

Deck chairs and clingfilm :) Haven't heard that before but they're probably both parts that Renaultsport use on a regular basis, saying that though they're becoming so good at what they do they're going to branch out to their own dealerships very soon I hear, that'll be pretty cool.

 

Always forget about turbo's on the R32, some making frankly stupid power, loads in the States, obviously a great chassis to be able to handle 800bhp+

Always liked R's as a good base to make a very cool car, just think they made them too fat and lost sight a little bit of what makes a good drivers car, I know from driving them I feel massively more detached then when I'm in the 'Rado, struggle to get any real feedback through the wheel which is never good

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Never realised the Astra was no good, all I know is they're annoyingly quick as standard, and if the chav next to me at the lights has a Regal sticker on his then it's probably gonna wipe the floor with me, not when I finally get the charger sorted :clap:

 

Deck chairs and clingfilm :) Haven't heard that before but they're probably both parts that Renaultsport use on a regular basis, saying that though they're becoming so good at what they do they're going to branch out to their own dealerships very soon I hear, that'll be pretty cool.

 

Always forget about turbo's on the R32, some making frankly stupid power, loads in the States, obviously a great chassis to be able to handle 800bhp+

Always liked R's as a good base to make a very cool car, just think they made them too fat and lost sight a little bit of what makes a good drivers car, I know from driving them I feel massively more detached then when I'm in the 'Rado, struggle to get any real feedback through the wheel which is never good

 

As standard they're a bit pants. Terrible engine mapping, flat spots and inconsistent power delivery, plus they torque steer for England! It's the same basic recipe they followed with the GSI Astra back in 1990, i.e. too much power for the chassis :D. The next gen Astra is a LOT better apparently, almost up to current Focus and Golf standards, so the next hot version is one to watch. Anyway, enough of Chicken Poxhalls already :D

 

Yeah the Renault Sport cars are a stark reminder that the French know how to make a car handle. It's the finer details that impress me, such as using sachs racing dampers, light weight alloys, 4 pots, light and stiff body structures etc etc. The Germans still haven't cottoned onto that. They still make their sporty cars from granite and 3 week old weetabix left overs. I mean, take the MK5 R32's brakes - they are stupidly heavily, and those 18" wheels? - 12.7kg!!!

Who in their right mind fits iron calipers the size of breeze blocks to a car with an 'R' (for 'Race' let's not forget) in it's credentials? :cuckoo:

 

It's almost like the Germans are too afraid to sell you a sports car without their usual refinement and quality to go with it, but you can't have the performance AND the luxury. Luxury = weight and we all know what weight does to performance.

 

Compare a VW 'R' car to a Honda 'R' car, the two are chalk and cheese. Honda had the good sense to fit their Integra R with ally 4 pots, a VERY rigid body, an LSD, deleted sound deadening, proper hydraulic PAS, light wheels, bucket seats, close ratio gearbox and more crucially, double wishbones all round. Sure, the VTEC engine is a marmite unit, but overall that car is the recipe from a company who knows motorsport and knows what their customers want from a 'sport's car.

 

VAG's 'R' cars are stodgy porridge with extra prunes thrown in for good measure. Throw a MK5 R32 into a bend and you're immediately rewarded with a soggy, feel less, understeery turn-in.

 

Of course, I do love the R32 though :D It's an example of typical German excess and as a basic car, there is a fair bit you can do it in the after market as said earlier. It's like they give you a blank template to work on (an expensive one at that) and off you go and turbo bastard nutter the hell out of it :D

 

Anyway, mega digression there, ooops!

 

Turbo R32 or 12V is the way to go :D Such a humungous power band and with that 4WD traction, nothing will touch it this side of a Veryon or a big bucks Skyline, GTR etc.

 

And back to the original query, I still think an R32 with cams is capable of 100hp per litre and that would be quite something in a stripped out Corrado or MK2 8)

[bananawhip 0]

I suppose at the end of the day we're all in the wrong place if we wanted balls out race bred track cars. The whole point of "the scene" is that we've got a bit more class then that. I still can't stand weight for the sake of it.

They should start off with a weight in mind (no more then 1300kg in a Golf) and make the car as luxurious as possible whilst still staying within that bracket. That's why you've gotta give it to Porsche, they're not afraid to stick 2 fingers up at the fast lane cruising brigade and strip the hell out of their cars. Lets hope VW get involved now that it's one big happy family :)

 

Anyway I could rant all day, I'm not about to buy anything Jap, or French for that matter, so I'll just have to get used to the fact that whatever I buy after the Rado will probably need a to go on a bit of a crash diet.

 

And sorry to everyone for me taking this completely off topic :cuckoo:

[Flexso 0]

Its has all gone off on a bit of a tangent. I just wanted to get across that I do think the MK4 R32 is a great car. My VR6 corrado was completely standard and my R32 is also, and the only thing i miss about the corrado is the sound.

 

Maybe its because we all seem to want something different things. Its like the front seats were mentioned as heavy etc. I loves them, really comfortable, heated, remind me alot of the recaros in the mk2 golf gti. I think the power is great, loads of torque (which I love). Maybe its because you guys have quite seriously tuned cars.

[tedman 0]

like 6 individual throttle bodies? it makes them sound like absolute monsters as far as i'm aware! there are some youtube vids out there that you can listen to.

 

imagine what its like under load!!

[fla 9]

It's also worth mentioning the 12V fitted with an OBD2 set-up. Mine has so much more torque at low rpm than an OBD1 12V, and is loads of fun to drive on the twisties without ragging the nuts off it.

 

I've never driven a 24V obviously so I can't compare, but if you want to have more torque without a 24V conversion then I would definitely recommend going OBD2 on the 12V, maybe combine it with some mild(ish) cams and a remap and you'd be well away :D

 

This is a scenario i'm considering due to lack of time 264 cams (which i have) and and OBD2 conversion (which i need to get). Does anyone have any real life comparisons of this setup vs a 24v, perhaps throwing mpg into the mix?

[RedTyphoon 0]

Just sound comparison between my 12v

and 3.2 24v

. Same exhaust system on both,3.2 with 6 branch.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

This is a scenario i'm considering due to lack of time 264 cams (which i have) and and OBD2 conversion (which i need to get). Does anyone have any real life comparisons of this setup vs a 24v, perhaps throwing mpg into the mix?

 

The 2.8 24V is a LOT torquier than a 12V OBD2.

OBD2 is certainly a big improvement over OBD1 on the 12V though, but the difference won't keep you awake at nights with excitement.

The 24V will be the more economical of the two if you're considering a swap. Firstly, it won't be pulling 1500kg anymore and secondly, it can be mapped to run much leaner on the cruise than a 12V can.

 

As I will be running my 24V with a standalone, I will let you know just how economical it can be. A friend of mine ran his 24V Turbo at 17:1 AFR on a cruise, which is super lean, and the engine seemed to like it. A 12V wouldn't enjoy such a lean burn for very long.

[adaptorman 0]

ive run a fair amount of vr6 12v6s all stock , none with biggar cams so i carnt really comment, as ive turboed all ive had ,

i can compair a mk4 2.8 24v , it sounds and runs more smoothly then a 12v ,evern when i turbo it with no vvt , it started pulled very well, ive currantly thought id try a mk5 r32 again buy turboing via standalone , evern thow theys no camshaft profile differnce , there is a differnce with vvt system then the mk4 2.8/r32 engine , as ive currantly wired these up so i can modify the intake/exahust cams at differnert rpms what differnce and how well im unsure,, till its fitted and runing