oneohtwo's VR6 - New Engine!

[fla 9]

16 hours ago, 1xshaunx1 said:

If you do some research the fuel problem is to do with the tank and the fuel filter. VW had a dealer fix for this. But basically i think if you put a non return valve in between them it stops the fuel line bleeding fuel back into the tank.  

Ive got one or two spare check valves.  Send me your address and i'll pop one in the post to you

[g0ldf1ng3r 13]

4 hours ago, oneohtwo said:

Sorry, no I should have said water temps. I think the oil gets a bit higher but can't remember. I think the temps are within acceptable range, although just under 90 when motorway cruising seems a little high.

hi m8

around 90 on the water temp is all good

i remember kevbacon explaining on here that VW redesigned the thermostat so that it would give a dash reading of around 90 with modern stats, something to do with people thinking they had issues when the needle wasnt sat in the middle of the temp range

older thermostats used to give a fairly actual reading & move between around 70 to 90 but that is a thing of the past now

 

 

[GrahamU 5]

5 hours ago, g0ldf1ng3r said:

 

all dashes are made so there is a range either side of 90 that only shows as 90 to stop people worrying

[oneohtwo 8]

Actually I made an error reading the water temp and it is just around 100 degrees sat in traffic, and that was over this hot weekend so pleased with that. And if 90 is all good for cruising then, seems like it's all working well!

I would quite like to do something about the exhaust though, getting a bit fed up with the motorway drone, as much as I like how it sounds at low speed. 

 

[oneohtwo 8]

Dropped the car off to Stealth today after the ABS light started coming on again (then stopped) and they diagnosed a valve fault so they'll get the pump off and send it to be reconditioned. It was looking pretty old and worn so will be nice to have another piece reconditioned - bit more piece of mind!

[oneohtwo 8]

On 7/12/2021 at 7:09 PM, 1xshaunx1 said:

If you do some research the fuel problem is to do with the tank and the fuel filter. VW had a dealer fix for this. But basically i think if you put a non return valve in between them it stops the fuel line bleeding fuel back into the tank.  

Asked Vince to fit this when I had it in for the ABS and he said he's never fully got to the bottom of what the actual issue is. He doesn't think it's fuel related because in the past they've tested fuel pressure prior to starting and it's been fine - yet the engine will still turn over for ages before firing. The only method thing he's got to work is to briefly turn the ignition, less than a second, so the engine just starts to turn over, then turn it off. It will then start fire first time if you turn the ignition on again. I think he said his suspicion was that it was an oddity with the ECU, but he couldn't be sure.

He fitted the non-return valve anyway, and to be honest he's right it's not really made a difference. Just have to file under mysteries of the VR6...!

Anyway, ABS pump is all refurbed and working fine, so one less thing to worry about. But then they did find the idle control valve was faulty. Think it was just coked up and sticking before, so they cleaned it up and it is better, but still doesn't seem to work properly 100% of the time. Have to try and keep cleaning it as there don't seem to be many spares about... only new one is by a brand called SKV, which I have never heard of.

 

 

 

[oneohtwo 8]

Sorted a couple of jobs on the drivers side door this weekend. First, replaced the drivers footwell speak with a new Alpine unt - the old speaker hasn't worked for ages, so nice to sort that. And it was a nice easy job as it was the speaker and not the wiring.

Also got the door handle off and gave everything a good greasing. Hadn't felt nice really, almost tight, so that's now nice and smooth.

Thenreplaced the door membrane. Where I've had to peel the membrane back for previous jobs I don't think it was fully sealed and water has been leaking at the bottom.. Pulled the old stuff off and replaced with some DPM. 

Seems to have done the job overnight with the rain this morning. Surprising how much water gets to the inner membrane, not entirely sure how. I can see how it would pass the window scraper and run down between the two skins, but hitting the membrane seems odd. Slight difficulty is that the DPM is flat whereas the door and original membrane isn't. So not the nicest fit, but will hopefully do the job. I had hoped to reuse the original but couldn't really get the old sticky stuff off, and it tore in one place. Couldn't really find any replacements.

Also tried fitting a layer of MLV behind the door card to try and reduce a bit of noise ingress. It's a tight fit, so this hasn't worked brilliantly, and you end up needed to cut chunks out to get it to fit, which rather defeats the purpose. I thought it might help deaden the noise of the doors shutting as well, giving it a bit more of a soft thunk, than the metallic clang they normally do but it's made no difference on that front. Need to give it a drive to see if it's made a blind bit of difference I suppose.

 

 

 

 

 

[Keyo 47]

43 minutes ago, oneohtwo said:

Sorted a couple of jobs on the drivers side door this weekend. First, replaced the drivers footwell speak with a new Alpine unt - the old speaker hasn't worked for ages, so nice to sort that. And it was a nice easy job as it was the speaker and not the wiring.

Also got the door handle off and gave everything a good greasing. Hadn't felt nice really, almost tight, so that's now nice and smooth.

Thenreplaced the door membrane. Where I've had to peel the membrane back for previous jobs I don't think it was fully sealed and water has been leaking at the bottom.. Pulled the old stuff off and replaced with some DPM. 

Seems to have done the job overnight with the rain this morning. Surprising how much water gets to the inner membrane, not entirely sure how. I can see how it would pass the window scraper and run down between the two skins, but hitting the membrane seems odd. Slight difficulty is that the DPM is flat whereas the door and original membrane isn't. So not the nicest fit, but will hopefully do the job. I had hoped to reuse the original but couldn't really get the old sticky stuff off, and it tore in one place. Couldn't really find any replacements.

Also tried fitting a layer of MLV behind the door card to try and reduce a bit of noise ingress. It's a tight fit, so this hasn't worked brilliantly, and you end up needed to cut chunks out to get it to fit, which rather defeats the purpose. I thought it might help deaden the noise of the doors shutting as well, giving it a bit more of a soft thunk, than the metallic clang they normally do but it's made no difference on that front. Need to give it a drive to see if it's made a blind bit of difference I suppose.

 

 

 

 

 

An old trick you can also do is put some butly tape one third from the bottom inside the membrane and another bit of membrane acts like a drain into the bottom of the door. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Keyo

[fla 9]

6 hours ago, oneohtwo said:

Sorted a couple of jobs on the drivers side door this weekend. First, replaced the drivers footwell speak with a new Alpine unt - the old speaker hasn't worked for ages, so nice to sort that. And it was a nice easy job as it was the speaker and not the wiring.

Also got the door handle off and gave everything a good greasing. Hadn't felt nice really, almost tight, so that's now nice and smooth.

Thenreplaced the door membrane. Where I've had to peel the membrane back for previous jobs I don't think it was fully sealed and water has been leaking at the bottom.. Pulled the old stuff off and replaced with some DPM. 

Seems to have done the job overnight with the rain this morning. Surprising how much water gets to the inner membrane, not entirely sure how. I can see how it would pass the window scraper and run down between the two skins, but hitting the membrane seems odd. Slight difficulty is that the DPM is flat whereas the door and original membrane isn't. So not the nicest fit, but will hopefully do the job. I had hoped to reuse the original but couldn't really get the old sticky stuff off, and it tore in one place. Couldn't really find any replacements.

Also tried fitting a layer of MLV behind the door card to try and reduce a bit of noise ingress. It's a tight fit, so this hasn't worked brilliantly, and you end up needed to cut chunks out to get it to fit, which rather defeats the purpose. I thought it might help deaden the noise of the doors shutting as well, giving it a bit more of a soft thunk, than the metallic clang they normally do but it's made no difference on that front. Need to give it a drive to see if it's made a blind bit of difference I suppose.

 

 

 

 

 

Nice finish there, looks like it's well sealed

[oneohtwo 8]

Cheers, I used this stuff:

Vacuum Bagging Sealant Tape 15m - Easy Composites

Which is just a butyl tape, which I am sure you can find anywhere, but these guys use it for sealing vacuum bags so there's a bit of a guarantee of quality. It's pretty easy stuff to use. It's just the top section which isn't fully sealed due to the shape of the door, but I figured moisture was unlikely to leak through there. Just used some contact adhesive on that. 

I know you did a lot of work trying to add soundproofing - did you do anything behind the door cards?

[fla 9]

I put some closed cell foam behind the door cards but the problem is the door cards sit very close to the door skin so its hard to get a hood tight fit.

I'm looking into some other materials, ideally a heavy open cell foam to absorb noise whilst also acting as a blocker.  The other is a sound blocking films for the glass. Very expensive atm but hopefully in time the prices will come down

But the corrado is quite a hard car to reduce noise in. 

[oneohtwo 8]

Yeah, it's surprising how tight it is. I thought 2mm MLV would fit easily but it doesn't at all. The bit by the dash is tightest at all and have had to cut it away there, and where I haven't it's really squashed in and compressed the foam.

I think I might see if the door piece makes any difference, and then leave it there. Part of the trouble is I don't exactly know where most of the noise is coming from. When I did the floor plan I was aiming to cut the noise from the exhaust right down so that seemed a reasonable move. then it was a case of just putting some CLD on any bare panel that sounded a bit tinny when tapped, then all over with MLV. God knows if any of those panels do actually resonate much and whether that made a difference, but you can't exactly do it by trial and error.

Likewise the doors, have got CLD onto the outer skin, and it does work in the sense the panels are much duller to tap, but I have no idea if that was contributing to any noise increase.

And of course it's all adding weight!

[fla 9]

remember you will need to decouple the mlv otherwise the vibration may even be amplified!  Use a thin layer of a CCF as a decoupler and tape up any joins in the mlv layer.  I might look to get one of those sound level meters to try and isolate the noise sources

[oneohtwo 8]

A sounds level meter seems like a good idea. At least then you can get an actual value on what difference this has all made!

Yeah, it's interesting on the decoupling layer. When I was researching I found this MLV decoupling report v1.3.pdf (dropbox.com) which suggested CCF isn't all that good at decoupling, and not that dissimilar to the MLV on it's own - to get a true decoupling you'd need a very thick layer of something really soft which isn't practical. 

What I did in the end under the back seat was lay down some narrow strips of CCF then allow the MLV to drape over it. I figured an air gap between the panels and MLV was going to offer the best decoupling, plus then the MLV can just sit limply. Other areas this isn't possible, so the boot I just laid the loose MLV straight down under the carpet. Hard to say what is making the biggest difference, but the MLV in the boot on it's own seems fine.

Under the footwells I replaced the felt with CCF layers just to build up the depth again.

[oneohtwo 8]

Fitted a new Bosch auxilliary water pump to replace the cheapo GSF one I fitted yonks ago, which had started leaking and making whining noises. Comparison of the two parts below for reference, Bosch on the left:

Unsurprisingly looks much better quality, and the pipe fittings are a slightly larger diameter for some reason. However, neither fit in the rubber holding rings properly. I remember when I bought the GSF one years ago it was a slightly different size to to OE one, and was too short to slot properly in the top ring. I assumed this was because it was a pattern part, and gettign a proper Bosch one would sort the issue, but as you can see it's arguably worse, as the ring won't go over the fatter bottom section. I cheked the part numbers so I am guessing they changed the design at some point. It's not a major issue, but as below it's not neat:

I also fitted the small non return valve that is pushed into the hose that runs between the throttle body and heater matrix.  Had to cut it out of the old hose and push into the end of the silicon but it's an easy job that had been on my mind to do for a while, so nice to tick one off. It has stopped the sloshing and gurgling noses from behind the dash so that's that sorted.

One thing while I am here, I ordered black silicon hoses from Roose when I did the rebuild, expecting them to be a really nice deep black that would make the engine bay pop but, whilst they look a lot nicer than the OEM, I have always been a little disappointed that the colour has been a little flat, and more of a very dark grey. Anyone else had the black hoses from Roose and found the same?

They also made the little length of hose that connects to the expansion tank too long (oddly, as it's the right length in all their pictures) so the hose does not sit right, and rests on the throttle cable which is a bit annoying. Might have to just cut that to length.

Edited March 20, 2022 by oneohtwo

[oneohtwo 8]

Finished a couple of small jobs at the weekend.  Firstly recondition my steering wheel with the Liquid Leather dyes, before and after pictures below:

  

I don't think the before picture shows how bad it was, but the top bit where it gets the sun was really bad. All worn and pitted and cracked up. And similarly the after photo probably doesn't do it full justice, but it looks nice and smart now. Had to sand down the worst bits on the top first, and there's still a bit of texture to it. Not perfect as it is still a worn and old wheel, but didn't necessarily want it to be. Wanted to sort the steering wheel pretty well since I bought it, and had the Liquid Leather stuff for a few years, so nice to finally get round to it.

Slightly less successful was reattaching the sunroof headlining. Struggled to get the headliner out, which I think, now having put it back in, was due to it not being correctly installed in the first place. The little pins for the tilt portion of the trim weren't in the slots in the trim, but were underneath it somehow. So in wrestling to get it out think something else might have gone awry.

It now makes a clunk when operating the slide mechanism, and whilst it seems to open OK, it doesn't go all the way back and it doesn't close properly. It slides a bit then stops, so you have to keep pressing the button and gradually it closes. It did this once before and was then fine, so don't know if that is the motor going.  Either way I am going to have to get the whole cassette off I guess.

I also noticed that at the rear of the sunroof the seal isn't sealing as there was a tiny gap through which daylight was visible. My sunroof seems to sit slightly higher at the rear than the surrounding body work, and lower at the front. Pictures of other peoples don't seem to have this, so I don't quite know what's going on there. Anyone else notice this?

[fla 9]

great result on the steering wheel, some good effort there.  I think the sunroof doesn't actually seal on the outside, it's the inner part of the cassette that does the sealing.  Also, the front does sit lower than the rear, by 2mm - i'll need to check in Bentley to get the proper heights

[ABV-VR6 12]

That steering wheel looks amazing! I did this as well on mine, funny is that I imported the dye from the UK! Ended up nice! 

I've heard/read that sunroof seal us the pita to install... So don't feel it's just you 😉

About that Bosch aux water pump, that's too bad about the design change. I'll have to look in my parts bin if I have the same thing now... I've seen companies making the ring that holds it in billet, maybe just one would hold it and you could get rid of the top one if you're not happy? I wonder if the leak you had was because the inlet/outlet of the GSF was thinner than the Bosch? 

https://momentummotorparts.com/collections/cooling-system-components

https://www.gruvenparts.com/auxiliary-water-pump-bracket/

[Keyo 47]

Did you put a new seal on the sunroof panel - sometimes that makes a clunk when new in till its molded in good. 

[seanl82 23]

19 minutes ago, fla said:

great result on the steering wheel, some good effort there.  I think the sunroof doesn't actually seal on the outside, it's the inner part of the cassette that does the sealing.  Also, the front does sit lower than the rear, by 2mm - i'll need to check in Bentley to get the proper heights

Yeah sunroof should be 1mm lower than the roof at the front, and 1mm higher at the rear. I think it's to avoid wind noise.

Sounds like the motor is on its way out, as a bit of extra friction caused by the headlining will have an already struggling motor stopping for breath. Definitely worth checking though as if it breaks the panel tends to lift mid movement and scratches the paint. If you can take the panel out on its own and check the movement, that may point you to anything untoward.

I used liquid leather on my wheel too and agree, the photos didn't do it justice from the before and after. Mine wasn't awful, but had gone patchy between Matt and gloss. 

[oneohtwo 8]

Cheers folks, I was pleased with the steering wheel. It's funny I do these things and put them back on expecting it to magically transform the car, but by the time I have put I back on I have forgotten how it looked before so there's always a bit of an anti-climax!

Good to know about the sunroof not sitting exactly flat, surprising as it doesn't look "right", but you learn something every day. I hadn't changed the sunroof seal, it's still the old one, but maybe it got a bit dislodged when I was messing about with it.  I'll have to get the cassette down either way, and maybe look out for a replacement motor. Shame it'll have to be second hand as you never know if the replacement motor will be any better.

23 hours ago, ABV-VR6 said:

That steering wheel looks amazing! I did this as well on mine, funny is that I imported the dye from the UK! Ended up nice! 

I've heard/read that sunroof seal us the pita to install... So don't feel it's just you 😉

About that Bosch aux water pump, that's too bad about the design change. I'll have to look in my parts bin if I have the same thing now... I've seen companies making the ring that holds it in billet, maybe just one would hold it and you could get rid of the top one if you're not happy? I wonder if the leak you had was because the inlet/outlet of the GSF was thinner than the Bosch? 

https://momentummotorparts.com/collections/cooling-system-components

https://www.gruvenparts.com/auxiliary-water-pump-bracket/

The top one is tempting, even though it'd be completely hidden from view! I will think on that. The pipes sealed OK around the outlets even though they were smaller, but the unit had started to give up the ghost and was leaking through the  plastic joint. Could potentially have taken it apart and replaced the O-ring or seal, but preferred to have a proper Bosch unit in there. 

[Keyo 47]

Just to add the blue sensor in the  coolant flange front of engine signals  to the ecu so its good practice to fit a new gen vag one on purchasing a  used classic vw- relatively cheap and illuminates. 

[ABV-VR6 12]

I just checked mine "the new one" when compared to the the old one, it's identical. Is yours this part number? One thing comes in my mind. It's hard to tell from the angle of your picture but did you slide the rubber holder all the way OVER the black plastic part? Because it should not sit on the metal part, only the side where it connects "facing up" that the rubber holder is on the metal part of the aux pump. Sorry, I don't if you follow me with my explanation? I can take a picture of it if you want, it's in a bag all assembled. You can see on my picture where I got both pumps, on the old one, you can observe the mark left by the rubber holder. It's all the way over the plastic part. Would be nice if it was just that! Cheers 

[ABV-VR6 12]

The more I look at your picture, the more I think that's just it mate, 99% sure! 

[ABV-VR6 12]

1 hour ago, ABV-VR6 said:

The more I look at your picture, the more I think that's just it mate, 99% sure! 

Found a good picture from when I disassembled the engine. I think that's just it!