The Baconator's latest victim

[KipVR 1]

I can't remember the exact weights, but I can remember the R32 engine was actually marginally lighter.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I managed to get the intake hose sorted tonight and it went better than I thought it would actually :D

 

83mm ID 180 degree was absolutely spot on. The only downside is I have to move the air intake sensor to the airbox bellows, but as the standard car takes a reading from there too, it kind of works out nicely :D I get my silicon bits and bobs from www.apmotorstore.co.uk Great prices and great service.

 

 

The hardest part was actually making a custom breather hose. The R32 experts among you may have noticed I'm using a MK4 rocker cover on a MK5 engine. The rocker cover for my engine was destroyed by the fire heat and the coils corroding into it (why do so many r32s catch fire?!?). "So what?" I hear you ask? Well, the MK5 rocker breathes into the intake and has a special diaphragm inside it. Feeding the MK4 rocker outlet into the MK5 intake just creates a massive vacuum which stalls the engine, so I've had to route it into the intake hose instead, but I'm pleased with how it turned out as it has the proper OE quick release fittings at both ends :D

 

 

I would certainly not recommend mixing and matching MK4/MK5 bits like I've done as it's a frickin nightmare, but I'm pleased with how it's come together and I guess it's unique! :D

 

[Pat_McCrotch 0]

Mate it looks brilliant! :D Intake looks good hopefully it will draw enough air :)

 

I will pop around with the new air filter tomorrow. Cheeky spin around the block? :D haha

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

very neat,i like how that engine looks more at home than the original!

[Supercharged 2]

Can't believe that pipe fits behind there!!

 

Great work dude x

[coullstar 0]

Looks like it came from factory. Very nice.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Cheers chaps. I think the next time it's in bits I'll fit the MK5 rocker cover and lose a hose or two for neatness, but otherwise I'm happy with the results.

 

Just the mapping to do now, which I'm not looking forward to be honest. I loved mapping the 12V as it was easy, but this engine is a lot more complicated. Vince will be doing all the load mapping on the dyno but i need to get a base map done so that i can drive it up there.

The standard ECU is peering at me like the back-up cars in the Top Gear challenges, so I'm determined to get the DTA behaving nicely :D

[fla 9]

Looks like it came from factory. Very nice.

Absolutely spot on comment there. The corrado-style airbox helps too! Would be interesting to see how the remap goes...

[Jim 1]

Superb mate. I reckon it'd be interesting though for you to try it with two configurations... airbox on the right of the engine (like Kip's) and then your setup and see how the characteristics change. I really like how OE it looks but wonder if you'll also lose a little bit of performance as the air will get heated by the heat from the exhaust manifold? Or should it be negligable?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

At idle in traffic it might get a little toasty but on the move it'll be fine. It's the mixer tap analogy again mate :D Granted water is far better at absorbing heat than air is, but the same principal applies. I am expecting to lose a bit of power though. If it's a huge amount I'll just stick a BMC on the passenger side and be done with it, but if it's only a small loss I'll live with it :D

 

The air intake sensor where I originally wanted to put it (just in front of the throttle) would have told me how much the air is heating up, but nevermind!

[wy906 0]

Very neat installation but then I expected nothing less from you! :)

[Swompy 0]

At idle in traffic it might get a little toasty but on the move it'll be fine. It's the mixer tap analogy again mate :D Granted water is far better at absorbing heat than air is, but the same principal applies. I am expecting to lose a bit of power though. If it's a huge amount I'll just stick a BMC on the passenger side and be done with it, but if it's only a small loss I'll live with it :D

 

The air intake sensor where I originally wanted to put it (just in front of the throttle) would have told me how much the air is heating up, but nevermind!

 

When I get my rado back from DG with the 24v it will be running a BMC CDA and a cold air feed to make sure it isn't sucking in any hot air from right behind the Rad :D

[KipVR 1]

Looks great Kev, I wasn't so sure about passing over the manifold, but seeing as you made it so simple, you've nothing to lose by trying it first.

[KADVR6 0]

looks like a nice neat install of the airbox mate, still think it would have evened out the engine bay by relocating the battery to the offside, and then using the standard r32 airbox on the nearside. But hey its your car and you have more skill than me any day off the week when it comes to messing with the corrado.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah it looks bare on the nearside now doesn't it? :lol: As Kip said, it's all stuff that can be undone easily enough and as you know, I love all this mucking about and experimentation more than I actually like driving the thing :D

 

Good stuff Mr Swompster, are you going 2.8? Are DG still going? I thought D went back to a life full time employment?

 

The initial lunge of torque from any 24V comes as a real shock after so many years of 12V flatness.....and I've not tried a 24V with the shorter gearing yet either, but hopefully I will this weekend because I've stumbled onto a cunning plan :norty:

 

The DTA's software comes with a bunch of maps. No VW ones though unfortunately! But there is however a nice looking map for an E36 M3 engine and when I compared the physcial similarities of the VW and BMW engines, they're actually really close! Even the injectors are only 15cc apart! :D 339cc @ 5 bar for the Bimmer and 324cc @ 4 bar for the dubbya! So I will attempt to use the BMW map on my engine!

 

Below is what I managed to hoik off the internet during my research and aside from the Bimmer's pornographic intake system, they're very similar engines, mechanically speaking. VANOS is quite a sexy sounding cam control but the reality is it's just the same as VW's. Honda's VTEC where the actual cam lobes differ between modes, is as far as I know, unique.

 

I think BMW also use Hydraulik Ring for the cam adjusters. Here's the R32's :D - http://www.hilite.com/products/engine-products/camphaser-modules.html

 

VW:

3.2 litre V6

84mm bore, 95.9mm Stroke

Compression: 11.8:1

4 valve head

324cc Bosch EV12 @ 4 bar

Intake cam advance: up to 52 degrees

Exhaust cam advance: up to 22 degrees

Single 3" throttle

Switchable intake tract length

280 flywheel hp (with standard Revo / Stealth et al remap) @ 6800rpm.

 

BMW:

3.2 litre inline 6

87mm bore, 91mm stroke

Compression: 11.5:1

4 valve head

339cc Bosch EV6 @ 5 bar

Intake cam advance: up to 40 degrees

Exhaust cam advance: up to 25 degrees

6 x individual throttles

Short runner intake

343 flywheel hp @ 7900rpm.

 

 

So now I'm considering project BMVW. How can we fit 6 throttle bodies and a plenum to an R32 engine? I know a chap called Gareth who has a red Vento r32 with throttle bodies, but I'd like to develop that further :D

 

340+hp nasp R32 do we think? It's certainly doable I think. The only thing I can see there in the spec lists is the BMW's bore / stroke is far closer to oversquare than VW's, which gives it more rev ability.

[24V Renshaw 0]

Certainly looks feasible. Can't remember what Gareths is putting out now?

 

Jay

[Jim 1]

Is the increased BMW horsepower not simply because it can rev higher mate? If you got the engine blueprinted and balanced so you could increase the rev limit, would you not be getting into BMW power territory?

[boost monkey 0]

:lol:

 

I knew you'd come round to ITBs! :D

 

Would be great to get some info from Gareth if you can. Whenever i've seen that car it's at WOT which makes conversation a bit of an issue... :-s

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Certainly looks feasible. Can't remember what Gareths is putting out now?

 

No idea, I haven't spoken to him for years :D

 

Is the increased BMW horsepower not simply because it can rev higher mate? If you got the engine blueprinted and balanced so you could increase the rev limit, would you not be getting into BMW power territory?

 

It is indeed mate. It can rev that high because of it's ITBs / short intake, shorter crank throw and I suspect light weight shallow skirted pistons. It's all about piston speed and it's energy at the end of it's stroke. Boost Chunky can probably explain this better than I can, but the longer the stroke and the heavier the piston, the more stored energy it has at the top of it's stroke, which limits revving because the piston wants to keep going north when it's yanked back down again by the conrod!

 

Race engines usually always have stroke much smaller than bore and keep reciprocating masses as light as possible, with as little friction as possible. For example, F1 engine bore is ~40mm vs ~98mm stroke, which enable such fast rpms (up to 20,000) that pneumatic valves are required because springs can't keep up. Ducati use Desmodromic (sp?) valves (no springs) on it's L twin motors to get round the revving issue too.

 

This is partly why diesels can't rev. Big stroke, heavy pistons and a fuel that burns a lot slower than petrol.

 

Back to the R32 then, it's stroke is too long for big revs and the pistons are definitely too big and heavy being the weird shape that they are. Having said, that I asked the question on the vortex some time ago and people have reported regular 7500rpm action with no ill effects. One guy even accidentally revved it to 8000 and it didn't die. This is good news. Although the difference is BMW designed the S54 motor to reliably sit at 8000+ all day long. There's no way an R32 with standard pistons and valve gear could sustain 8000rpm for long.

 

A 'built' engine with custom forged pistons etc would almost certainly work but I don't want to go down that road unless it's absolutely necessary :D

 

:lol:

 

I knew you'd come round to ITBs! :D

 

Would be great to get some info from Gareth if you can. Whenever i've seen that car it's at WOT which makes conversation a bit of an issue... :-s

 

I looked into E34 M5 ITBs mate 4 years ago shortly after turboing it :D I didn't really publicise it though. I absolutely do not want open trumpets though. I want them enclosed in a plenum, just like the E34 M5's :D And that's where I drew a veil over that plan because of the complete lack of room in a Corrado's engine bay.

 

It's just an idea at this stage and I'm always open to suggestions! :D

Edited October 28, 2011 by Kevin Bacon

[Swompy 0]

 

Good stuff Mr Swompster, are you going 2.8? Are DG still going? I thought D went back to a life full time employment?

 

 

It is indeed the 2.8 came from a bora. Ya they are still alive and kicking, Dave has gone back to his old job, but Graham is holding the fort and has a new guy started the other week. Cant wait to get the car back tho after it being broken for most of this year.

 

Cant seam to find many out of the box mods for the 2.8 24v tho apart from a remap and "neuspeed power pulley" both only giving an extra 4-8 bhp each.

 

Are there many interchangeable parts between the 2.8 and 3.2?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

It is indeed the 2.8 came from a bora. Ya they are still alive and kicking, Dave has gone back to his old job, but Graham is holding the fort and has a new guy started the other week. Cant wait to get the car back tho after it being broken for most of this year.

 

Cant seam to find many out of the box mods for the 2.8 24v tho apart from a remap and "neuspeed power pulley" both only giving an extra 4-8 bhp each.

 

Are there many interchangeable parts between the 2.8 and 3.2?

 

Good stuff! Yeah I know how you feel as mine's been out of action since the beginning of April!

 

What's the engine code of your 2.8? If it's an AUE then there is absolutely nothing available for it, other than pulleys and remaps etc. If it's a BDE/BDF, then yep, most of the R32 stuff will work on it, such as cams, turbo kits etc etc.

 

You can easily tell what type yours is because AUE has a VR6 coilpack and HT leads and the BDE has a coil per plug like the R32.

[Swompy 0]

I think it is a AUE so the earlier one.

 

Am I right to belive the only diffetence between the early and late 2.8 is the later heads have VVT? Is it just a straight swap if I wanted to change it?

 

---------- Post added at 12:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 PM ----------

 

I think it is a AUE so the earlier one.

 

Am I right to belive the only diffetence between the early and late 2.8 is the later heads have VVT? Is it just a straight swap if I wanted to change it?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah the head and chain gear are completely different, as is the ECU and wiring loom and probably a lot of other things, so it would be quite a big job. You'd be better off getting a BDE or R32 engine (with looms and ECU etc) in the first place to be honest!

[Swompy 0]

Fair enough then. The engine will serve its purpose untill the rest of the car is up to the standard I want it then I may look into another change :bonk:

 

But will do the few things available to get as many ponies out of it that I can. Just reading into a mod that can be done to it that isn't often used on a NA cars just for a little extra spice :afro:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

LOL, care to share? :D

 

I think the AUE will remap up to about 230ish in a car free of the emissions shackles, which isn't too bad!