Puzzling non start issue

[Birdy 10]

Well, I've spend days and days searching/reading plenty of threads about non starting VR6 engines and I'm still stumped!

 

So, the car is a '94 VR6. Over Christmas I've changed the timing chains (rubbish job to do!!) and upon getting the car back together it started and ran fine, until it went into first gear and the shifter tower hit the live cable on the started solenoid!!

 

Cue the dash/all electrics dying instantly and the engine cutting out.

 

Then it wouldn't start.

 

Read the ECU codes and it came back with the camshaft position sensor being dead, a new one (gen VW) was ordered and fitted.

 

Still wont start, now the are no codes on the ECU - apart from the usual crank sensor, which does not appear when the codes are read while the engine is cranking over.

 

Thought about it (a lot!!) and checked the basics. The coilpack appears fine - all leads/plugs are working fine, tried each one individually to make sure.

 

Then I have removed the fuel rail to check the injectors are in good order - they are all working as they should when the engine is cranked over.

 

So, I'm well and truly stumped. The engine is getting fuel, has good spark but will not do anything!! I have also tried another ECU (same part number as mine) with no luck!

 

Any ideas would be massively appreciated - it was supposed to be in for a re-spray last week but I've had to put it off due to this!

[easypops 8]

I killed the ignition switch on my old valves many years ago when I shorted something while swapping the radio, no idea how but it did happen, and as they area known weak link it might be worth checking/bypassing.

Fair chance I'm miles off but you never know

[Jim Bowen 1]

What do you mean by engine will not do anything. If there is fuel and spark. Does it just keep on turning over?

[Birdy 10]

Yes, the engine just turns over, not even a hint of trying to fire up. Also changed the usual relays and it still does the same thing

[seanl82 23]

How sure are you its getting fuel? Worth checking the basics if haven't already done so. Fuses, fuel pump & ecu relays are a good starting point. You should hear a slight hum from the fuel pump when ignition is in position 2 if its good.

[sankysvr6 0]

Try disconnecting the blue temp sensor.

 

I had this on my polo recently, had spark and could here the fuel pump running. But wouldn't start at all. Disconnected the temp sensor and it fired up straight away.

 

Had me puzzled for hours.

[sankysvr6 0]

Have you got an aftermarket alarm?

[Birdy 10]

The injectors are definitely getting fuel, I pulled every fuse and checked they were ok, swapped the relay for a new one then pulled the rail off the car to test them.

 

Just been out to try pulling the blue temp sensor plug, it still wont fire up!

 

The car is fitted with a toad ai606 alarm, I have already disconnected the immobilisation circuits and replaced the original wiring in case that was the issue

[Wesleyvr6 10]

Crank shaft sensor?

[Dox 23]

Spark, Fuel, Compression, Timing and an engine should run

 

You say the leads etc are correct but don't say if you've seen a spark at the plugs?

 

 

The other end of the jump lead is earthed on the engine block

 

You say there's fuel at the injectors, but don't say if they are injecting fuel into the cylinder (remove the plugs after cranking and check to see if they're wet with petrol)

 

Compression test

 

Use a strobe light on the crank pulley mark to confirm number one cylinder is firing when it should

Edited January 16, 2016 by Dox

[Birdy 10]

Found the issue...

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]83050[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]83051[/ATTACH]

 

Think it's going to cost a fortune to get it running now!

[delfinis38 1]

Oops.

[VAG-hag 0]

Man that's harsh.

[seanl82 23]

Oh dear. That'd be timing out then.......

[Dox 23]

I'd expect more bent valves if the timing had slipped, looks like something fell in there when the plugs were out or the head has fallen off one of the valves?

 

Plenty of crusty MK3 vr6s available to transplant there engines to your C, use your inlet and throttle body and you're not far off 2.9 power anyway

[Dox 23]

Did you fit new tappets when doing the chains?

[Jim 2]

Holy crap :( sorry to see that :(

[Dox 23]

Holy crap :( sorry to see that :(

 

I wonder if he's had the same tappet jacking issue that you had?

[Cressa 44]

Try not to lose heart. At least you've found the issue and can look at sorting it.

I'm trying not to think about taking the sledge hammer to it as at times my corrado gets close. .. Good luck in sorting it

[Birdy 10]

Not exactly sure what caused it, there are 2 shattered valves on cylinder 6 and one bent inlet valve on cylinder 3 - had to retrieve one of the smashed valves from the inlet manifold!

 

Incidentally I have now noticed that the rear cam has had the drive gear pulled round and when the cam sensor was sat at tdc the cam itself was nowhere near being at tdc. Guess that's the piper cam ruined!

 

I've already picked up another cylinder head and have spent a few hours stripping it down ready to be skimmed - not a huge fan of grinding valves though!

 

I'll strip the bottom end down over a few days, luckily there are no marks on any of the bores so it shouldn't be a hugely expensive rebuild

[Dox 23]

I start grinding the valves in with the sucker post in an electric drill, with variable speed, 13mm chuck, using a slow speed and then finish by hand.

[jekel 10]

Lilfuzzers who's on here's got my old engine in his garage, changed coz got cracking deal on a full reconned one, couple of valve guides away, but otherwise seemed perfect, even got new timing chains, and passed mot emissions with no CAT day before removed, as your geting new head might be worthwhile contacting him, sure he sell it, and better than an unknown VR6 that's sat for years, only removed couple of months back