Jim 1 Posted February 4, 2011 Disappointing to hear you've had more problems and more rebuild work being undertaken Charlie - I really hope this is the last of it for you and you can actually drive and enjoy the car again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
big ben 10 Posted February 4, 2011 not good mate... you didnt need the car over winter anyway though :lol: you will have it back loving it for summer :D Tim and the guys are great as well, i will be getting them to give mine the once over again soon! they put in a lot more work than they charge you for. Anyone who has had work done there knows they are getting a lot of work and expertise for the money Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted February 4, 2011 I sympathise with you on the engine rebuilding thing! Well done for not giving up and seeing it through to completion. It's definitely worth it in the long run! Just get some miles into that motor now and sit back and enjoy the grunt :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yandards 0 Posted February 4, 2011 Good news Charlie, I can sympathise even if some my issues were also down to my own errors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chazrad 0 Posted February 4, 2011 Cheers chaps. Much appreciated. I am really looking forward to get it back now. As it happens Yan, the damage to the engine wasn't really my fault - less the fact I was driving the car at the time, but that's another story and I'm not about to tell tales on that one... :? Getting the train down there in the morning and will be driving the ol' girl home...gently... :grin: Pics to follow soon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poll250 0 Posted February 4, 2011 Look forward to seeing this at the stealth day, always loved this car! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chazrad 0 Posted February 5, 2011 Well, she's home and tucked away again. I collected the VRT at lunchtime and arrived to find Ryan about to finish off the cleaning with a coat of Dodo Juice, so all really was well! When he'd finished, I thought it looked so good that I had to take some pics. Here attached. Tim had given the car another oil change this morning - 180 miles into the new engine's life. Under strict directions to run it in using high gears, wide open throttle where possible but limited to 3,000rpm, the running in is now underway. I was instructed to take the cross country route home rather than head up the M3 and around the M25, so headed across to Guildford then picked up the A25. What a pot-holed crappy stretch of tarmac that is! I know the car's lowered, stiffened etc, but as it got dark I found myself wincing as a wheel disappeared into yet another chasm in the road. Appalling. Still, I was able to follow instructions to the letter on a number of occasions !! The task is now to get another 750 odd miles onto the engine before the car goes back for some mapping tweaks (and no doubt another oil change) before RR day at Stealth on 1 May. Hope you like the pics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slimg60 0 Posted February 6, 2011 Looks awesome, I bet its frustrating knowing all that powers there and not being able to use it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pete_griff 0 Posted February 6, 2011 car is looking fantastic pal - really pleased to hear you're happy with it. make sure you give it lots of WOT to bed those rings in nicely! can't wait to see what sort of numbers it will make now - bet you're getting excited already! :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim 1 Posted February 6, 2011 Absolutely superb looking Corrado.. no doubt about that! Wish I was there for the RR day but it clashes with Stanford Hall which is just too enjoyable to miss! :( Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
g60knight 0 Posted February 6, 2011 wow! thats a great looking corrado. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goldie 2 Posted February 6, 2011 That engine bay looks great, you must be over the moon Charlie. Shame youve had so many problems along the way, am hoping that is all in the past now though... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
corozin 0 Posted February 7, 2011 Fingers crossed it works out this time Charlie. Looking forward to a passenger ride sometime actually! The previous turbo conversions have always managed to spring a problem before I've managed to get a ride in it! BTW I like your new steering wheel. Very nice. John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chazrad 0 Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Fingers crossed it works out this time Charlie. Looking forward to a passenger ride sometime actually! The previous turbo conversions have always managed to spring a problem before I've managed to get a ride in it! You're right John. Its just the way it has worked out. I think the thing to remember about these conversions - something that can be easily forgotten - and something that I have learnt (then been reminded about) on a number of occasions, especially with the turbo work, is that you have to go into this level of modification with your eyes wide open (and John, I know you know this with your experiences!). Anyone who thinks they can turbo an N/A engined car and not have problems is kidding themselves, even if you get someone else to do the work for you. Like a number of other people on here, my engine spec is unique and bespoke and so it has always been a case of test and adjust. Every time my car has been back to The Phirm, there have been little things that Tim has changed (eg. uprating the fuel relay circuitry to give the race pump its own relay, adding an oil swirl pot, remaking the intercooler boost pipe work in bigger bore tubing, replacing the oil cooler hoses with braided, adjusting the position of the oil cooler (then replacing it after the last little episode etc.), and literally countless other minor mods and tweaks, all to improve reliability and/or performance. That said, its all credit to Vince for being able to turbo a VR and knock out 360bhp conversions for the price he does them for, and make them reliable first time out. But even he has no doubt put alot of development time into his demo car to get the base conversion to that level, in order that customers can reap the rewards. BTW I like your new steering wheel. Very nice.John Cheers matey. When the ol' girl is run in again and the on-road mapping and tweaking is complete, I'll happily take you for a spin..... Edited February 11, 2011 by chazrad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
corozin 0 Posted February 8, 2011 That of course, is based on the assumption that my car will be working at the same time as yours so I can get over to you! What are the chances of that? LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
biggerbigben 0 Posted February 10, 2011 Glad to see it finished Charlie. I saw it recently in the phirm actually. What's the goal with the new setup and what happened with the old setup for it to go south? Musty you had a rid in my car didn't u? Be good to see you chaps soon at some point? Maybe a Coupehaus lunch around Easter time? All the best Ben Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chazrad 0 Posted February 13, 2011 Hi Ben, Yeah, would be great to catch up again with you and the others. The last one I was able to get to was probably 2 years ago, may be longer. I recall Guy giving me a run out in his mental RS4. The goal with the present set up is nothing too ambitious. I am more interested in reliable power rather than 'blow my socks off' big numbers. I know what it should make at 1 bar and having driven it at a bar before the last rebuild, that was more than enough to scare me witless! Speak soon I hope. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boost monkey 0 Posted February 13, 2011 Nice car matey. Do you have a pressure gauge in your boost piping? I'm wondering how much pressure it's reading now that you increased the bore of the intercooler tubing (and what the reasoning behind that was?) Also, wouldn't the DTA cold start problems have been a mapping issue? I haven't heard of a lot of problems on DTA before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BadMeatPies 0 Posted February 14, 2011 I missed it at the Phirm when i took mine in Charlie, always nice to check out the progress on an appropriately powered C! I've never had the chance to see it running, but i've heard stories about the sound! post up when you're having it mapped, would love to pop down and see it run. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chazrad 0 Posted February 14, 2011 Nice car matey. Do you have a pressure gauge in your boost piping? I'm wondering how much pressure it's reading now that you increased the bore of the intercooler tubing (and what the reasoning behind that was?) The bigger bore tubing was simply to reduce back pressure / pressure loss in the pipework, or put another way, so that it can flow more air for a given pressure loss from turbo cold side to throttle body. The pipework quite simply can now flow a greater volume of air - necessary for producing higher power figures. Also, wouldn't the DTA cold start problems have been a mapping issue? I haven't heard of a lot of problems on DTA before. Yup, the cold start issues were indeed down to the mapping. The problem with the DTA was that as it did not run a MAF, it could not see air density and therefore adjust fuelling for different 'cold start' conditions ie. depths of winter or heat of a summer's day. Therefore, it ran rich and lumpy when the engine was cold. That in itself is not a problem because it only seemed to do it for between 30 secs and 1 min depending on external air temperature. With a standard factory ECU, it has got these other sensors which means it can adjust fuelling to suit the density of air it is seeing at idle. DTA per se is not a problem. It is a blank canvas onto which your mapping is only as good as the person mapping it and the range of sensors the ECU supports that it can draw on to control it. I am not going to go into the specifics of my old setup here, but can discuss with you my experiences further by PM or should we meet in the future. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chazrad 0 Posted February 14, 2011 I missed it at the Phirm when i took mine in Charlie, always nice to check out the progress on an appropriately powered C! I've never had the chance to see it running, but i've heard stories about the sound! post up when you're having it mapped, would love to pop down and see it run. I'll let you know when it'll next be back there, Joe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted February 15, 2011 Yup, the cold start issues were indeed down to the mapping. The problem with the DTA was that as it did not run a MAF, it could not see air density and therefore adjust fuelling for different 'cold start' conditions ie. depths of winter or heat of a summer's day. Therefore, it ran rich and lumpy when the engine was cold. That in itself is not a problem because it only seemed to do it for between 30 secs and 1 min depending on external air temperature. With a standard factory ECU, it has got these other sensors which means it can adjust fuelling to suit the density of air it is seeing at idle. DTA per se is not a problem. It is a blank canvas onto which your mapping is only as good as the person mapping it and the range of sensors the ECU supports that it can draw on to control it. I am not going to go into the specifics of my old setup here, but can discuss with you my experiences further by PM or should we meet in the future. I thought Steve Greenauld mapped your DTA? He's got a very good reputation. I don't know if it's deserved or not as I've never met him, but he does get a good press. Seems strange that a DTA I mapped myself has cold started and warmed up flawlessy, every day, for 4 years but the so called experts you've been using can't even get it to cold run properly. I'd be looking to get a refund if I were you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chazrad 0 Posted February 15, 2011 Yes, Steve Greenauld did map the car, and yes, he does have a good reputation. To be fair to him, it is well deserved given his background in motorsport and building race engines, not to speak of the countless cars he continues to map for motorsport and even car manufacturers. He also has the experience with DTA which is why we took the car to him in the first place. Re the cold start mapping, Steve never had my car overnight so was not able to map the cold start. Of course, you've had plenty of time to perfect yours - four years I think - as you use it everyday. It is also of greater concern to you to get the cold start right. We would have got there with mine eventually (bearing in mind that my car is a weekend toy and therefore cold start behaviour is of less concern) but for starters, it was more about getting the car running as it should when warm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) Fair enough. I forget yours isn't a daily and you don't have the same time investment in it as I do. Never mind. I was just interested really, being a standalone user myself. I also went back to OBD2 after a year or so living with the P8 Pro, but it didn't go as smoothly as I hoped and it wasn't for me. I then went to the S80 and it's a vastly better ECU (than the P8 ), but glad you're happy with the Motronic. If you want idle quality, you can't really beat OBD2! Did you use an Idle valve with your P8 out of interest? I use the standard VR6 one on mine and it's the key to getting a good warm up. You could have asked me for some maps, you know? I don't bite :) Anyway, best of luck with it. Hopefully your run of bad luck is over now and you can enjoy it. Edited February 17, 2011 by Kevin Bacon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chazrad 0 Posted February 17, 2011 Fair enough. I forget yours isn't a daily and you don't have the same time investment in it as I do. Never mind. I was just interested really, being a standalone user myself. I also went back to OBD2 after a year or so living with the P8 Pro, but it didn't go as smoothly as I hoped and it wasn't for me. I then went to the S80 and it's a vastly better ECU (than the P8 ), but glad you're happy with the Motronic. If you want idle quality, you can't really beat OBD2! Did you use an Idle valve with your P8 out of interest? I use the standard VR6 one on mine and it's the key to getting a good warm up. You could have asked me for some maps, you know? I don't bite :) Anyway, best of luck with it. Hopefully your run of bad luck is over now and you can enjoy it. Kev, It was an S60 I had rather than a P8 Pro. Alan Warburton himself recommended it to Tim at the Phirm when we were researching ECUs; and we went with the DTA in the first place because that was what Steve G had recommended and what he was sure he could map well on the car... No, I never did run an ISV and I can now imagine that it would have made cold starting easier. Actually, on a couple of occasions Tim threatened to retrofit it to the engine when it was up and running, but as it was events somewhat overtook us. You are kind to have offered your maps and I know you ran a GT3071 at one stage. I was aware that you had extended that offer previously, and with hindsight it would possibly have been a good starting point; although to be fair Tim got the car running well enough for the running-in period, and then it was off to Steve G at Track and Road anyway. So it never really occurred to me to ask you. You are right about the quality of idle on OBD2. OK, mine was never good from cold on the S60 (down to mapping deficiencies as discussed) but it is a world apart now. I took the car to work today - to give it a run and get some miles on it - and it started straight away and fast idled perfectly for a minute or so before dropping down to a steady idle, just like the Golf I've got. I know you run a 2.8L block too; and as you've said before there is no discernible difference in output over a 2.9L when you strap a turbo to it anyway. but now - like you - I have the benefit of a more robust block as a starting point. The last time I saw my old block, it was languishing in the corner of Tim's workshop looking sorry for itself...RIP . The other bonus is that I've managed to sell a fair chunk of the surplus OBD2 and old Corrado 2.9L OBD1 engine parts and ancils (eg. gearbox, alternator, head, drive shafts etc) on to recoup costs of buying the complete OBD2 setup in the first place, so that has helped offset another sizeable bill for new parts.... Like you say, now to enjoy it; and with any luck it'll be run-in in time for Stealth's RR day in May. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
