Steering rack issues solutions and swaps....

[davidwort 0]

... Rack, Column, track rod ends ?

sorry for any spelling mistakes.

 

not so much track rod ends as the inner track rod joint to the rack itself on mine, put the wheels on full lock and gently rock the steering wheel back and forth, any sign on a clunk or feeling a slight knock on the track rod and it may well be the inner joint.

New full track rods really improved the tightness of my steering and the original track rod ends had no noticeable play.

 

Interesting point to note is that inner joints on steering and CV's are not MOT fails only outer ones, figure that one out??? apparently an inner cv boot can be ripped to shreds but only outer ones are actually a definite fail.

[dr_mat 0]

I think serious camber following like that has to be geometry, once you've ruled out things that are actually loose. And if you've setup the geometry correctly, then something has to be moving under force.

[vwsam20 0]

Geometry was another thing i was thinking of. The car has been lowerd by the last owner i belive about 60mm. Dose any one know the original camber setteings and also the original ride height and just to make the answere harder where they measure from.

[davidwort 0]

Geometry was another thing i was thinking of. The car has been lowerd by the last owner i belive about 60mm. Dose any one know the original camber setteings and also the original ride height and just to make the answere harder where they measure from.

 

you'll have a job getting the right camber without cammed camber bolts on a 4 cylinder C that's lowered a lot, I've found you can't really get the negative camber you need, -1 deg IIRC

 

If you look at the hubs on lowered standard cars like the TT using the mk4 floorplan you'll see it's redesigned to keep the correct geometry but lower ride height, you can't expect to lower a car 60mm and not have some handling issues, things like following white lines etc can be a major problem as wishbones are not at the designed angle and can amplify forces from the wheels, add to that large diameter wheels and/or very low profile tyres and everything gets more twitchy and 'followy' of road imperfections.

[vwsam20 0]

Can i buy cammed camber bolts from anywere. Or have you found a happy medium.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

What kind of road surfaces are we talking about? Lorry ruts make any car weave about.....except Vectras as they have chunks of blancmange for bushes.

 

Any play in the steering and associated parts will be exhibited by the road wheels turning / moving and the steering wheel doing something else.

 

If the steering wheel moves in harmony with the road wheels, that's normal, so long as you're not constantly fighting the steering, and i mean an unusual amount of effort and corrections required. A little correction here or there over bumps and uneven surfaces is perfectly normal.

 

You will never get big saloon stability from a Corrado so don't even try. There's not enough positive caster and the wheelbase is too short. MK4s are stable because they have +7 deg caster. Corrados have +3 degrees. It makes a massive difference.

 

Anyway, have you checked the road wheel to steering wheel play by leaning in the car with your eyes firmly affixed on the road wheel and jogging the steering back and forth very slightly?

 

There should be no play what so ever.

 

Always start with the cheapest items first.

 

Lower Ball joints - They can show wear at 30 degrees only.

 

Inner tie rod joints - They can wear and fool MOT testers into thinking it's the rack

 

Outer tie rod joints - Fairly obvious when they're gone

 

Rear Wishbone bushes - split and sloppy ones will throw out the camber and caster.

 

Wheel bearings - Can cause steering play type symptoms.

 

Top mounts - Not usually associated with slack steering, but when severely worn they can cause clonks over bumps. It pays to have these in good nick too.

 

Geometry - An hour or a 4 wheel jig can sometimes transform a car.

 

Rack to Column UJ - I've seen these wear and cause steering wander

 

Steering Rack - Right hand turns are usually heavier than left hand ones when these go, but the rack to pinion wear doesn't become a problem until way past 100K and that can be taken up with the preload spring.

 

Steering column (adjustable type) centre UJ and upper / lower bearings - These can all play their part in ruining your steering feel.

 

So that's 10 things to check and is why, Jim, you can never get a definitive answer on what to change ;-)

 

Yes, H&R sell camber bolts.

[Toad 0]

Interesting point to note is that inner joints on steering and CV's are not MOT fails only outer ones, figure that one out??? apparently an inner cv boot can be ripped to shreds but only outer ones are actually a definite fail.

 

It's because the outer CV boot failing could potentially contaminate the brakes leading to brake failure...

 

The inner boot splitting just makes your gearbox messy...

 

That's according to my freindly tester, anyway.

[davidwort 0]

... only outer ones are actually a definite fail.

 

It's because the outer CV boot failing could potentially contaminate the brakes leading to brake failure...

 

The inner boot splitting just makes your gearbox messy...

 

That's according to my freindly tester, anyway.

 

yeah, I would need my brakes if the inner CV joint broke because all the grease had been spun out and it corroded :lol:

[vwsam20 0]

Cheers for all your help i will start to look at the list of bits. Luckily some have already been replaced, as befor i bought the car the owner spent some serious money on it. Think i also need to ring him to get the exact amount he lowerd it. I did have a problem with the f/n/s hub the bearing managed to loosen it's self in the hub, chaterd about and caused all sorts of problems. Fixed that (new hub etc) and reset the camber using a digital angle star gadge but cant remember what i set it to, Just took a reading from the other sided. Plus i dont work in motor sport any more so cant get my hands on a gadge so easely.

[dr_mat 0]

There is a solution!

 

I discovered this today .. and it's a winner .. !

 

Find a hump-back bridge .. aim at it at about 40mph .. get some air .. bingo, perfect steering when you land .. :)

[dinkus 10]

Not sure you'd want to try that on any kind of regular basis tho :? :lol:

[DeanTT 0]

My car has an awful clunking when turning at low speeds, parking for example. I have tried to read some of the posts in this thread but they all seem to go slightly off topic :roll:

 

Can anybody give me any pointers on what to check first. Pics would be a BIG bonus too as I don't know my tie rods to my valve caps! :? `

[PiercedWinky 0]

I am putting as much as I can into new parts for the steering on my car.

 

I have a new K-frame, new control arms, bushings, strut mounts, tie rod ends, ball joints, I will end up getting a rack soon, and the u joint. hubs, wheel bearings, and housings. (it all comes down to how much money I have at the time of ordering parts)

 

There is a noise coming from either my rack or my steering collumn (not really a clunk, more of a pop) and it happens a little bit after I turn the wheel. (car on, or off, pulling out of a parking spot or highway driving). It is probably just the u joint.

 

I am basically replacing EVERYTHING I can suspension related. but it wont matter for a good while because I am going to be doing a lump swap and having the car resprayed.

 

I can however say that control arm bushing made a world of difference in my GTI 16v, along with wheel bearings, tie rod ends and ball joints.

 

I wish I had the option of a SEAT rack on this side of the pond :(

[Jim Bowen 1]

What kind of road surfaces are we talking about? Lorry ruts make any car weave about.....except Vectras as they have chunks of blancmange for bushes.

 

Any play in the steering and associated parts will be exhibited by the road wheels turning / moving and the steering wheel doing something else.

 

If the steering wheel moves in harmony with the road wheels, that's normal, so long as you're not constantly fighting the steering, and i mean an unusual amount of effort and corrections required. A little correction here or there over bumps and uneven surfaces is perfectly normal.

 

You will never get big saloon stability from a Corrado so don't even try. There's not enough positive caster and the wheelbase is too short. MK4s are stable because they have +7 deg caster. Corrados have +3 degrees. It makes a massive difference.

 

Anyway, have you checked the road wheel to steering wheel play by leaning in the car with your eyes firmly affixed on the road wheel and jogging the steering back and forth very slightly?

 

There should be no play what so ever.

 

Always start with the cheapest items first.

 

Lower Ball joints - They can show wear at 30 degrees only.

 

Inner tie rod joints - They can wear and fool MOT testers into thinking it's the rack

 

Outer tie rod joints - Fairly obvious when they're gone

 

Rear Wishbone bushes - split and sloppy ones will throw out the camber and caster.

 

Wheel bearings - Can cause steering play type symptoms.

 

Top mounts - Not usually associated with slack steering, but when severely worn they can cause clonks over bumps. It pays to have these in good nick too.

 

Geometry - An hour or a 4 wheel jig can sometimes transform a car.

 

Rack to Column UJ - I've seen these wear and cause steering wander

 

Steering Rack - Right hand turns are usually heavier than left hand ones when these go, but the rack to pinion wear doesn't become a problem until way past 100K and that can be taken up with the preload spring.

 

Steering column (adjustable type) centre UJ and upper / lower bearings - These can all play their part in ruining your steering feel.

 

So that's 10 things to check and is why, Jim, you can never get a definitive answer on what to change ;-)

 

Yes, H&R sell camber bolts.

 

 

thats a good post :)

 

i was about to ask most of the things you've covered.

 

i'm thinking of renewing my track rods, do they come with the track rod ends when bought from VW?

 

is this a hard job on a VR, i read that the rack has to be removed?

[cubed 0]

this may well have been said on thread already but really cant be arsed trauling through twenty pages to find out,so apologies in advance!

I remember reading an article years ago on subframe movement,vw audi car i think?anyway,someone asked on the second page how the subrame is attached. the answer not very well from what i could gather. An owner was experiencing the same problems as us. The reply was that the bolts screw into captive nuts under the floorpan which can become loose. his cure was to cut away the floor directly above where the frame attaches and weld those nuts into place, i,m about to strip the old girl for some updating so i,l be having a nosey to confirm what i remember as true or false.

[was8v 0]

IT'S SORTED!!!!!!

 

I have finally found the source of the clunking on my car. Whether its the same for other people I don't know, but the cause of my clunk was the bolts on the front of the wishbones. I was under the car having a good check over everything and checked them, they seemed tight, but not "really" tight. So checked the Bentley for the torque settings and it was 130NM!! Much higher than I expected. So out with the torque wrench and tightened them right up.

 

NO MORE CLUNK!!!!!!!! WOOOOHOOOOO!!!!! Imran was witness to the differnce it made in the car. Its soooooo smooth now, I am soooo happy!!! :) :) :) :)

 

Jay

 

 

My passenger side wishbone vertical bolt keeps working loose causing a clunk since changing the wishbones.

 

How tight is 130NM? I dont have a torque wrench - is it tighter than i can get swinging off a standard size ratchet? Should I use a longer breaker bar instead - I don't want to release the captive nut.

 

I'm going to remove the bolt at the weekend, clean it up as much as I can and then threadlock it in place.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

95lb ft, so a fair amount. Imagine giving a 2 foot torque wrench / breaker bar a firm push to tighten wheel bots, plus another 1/4 turn and I reckon that's about right.

 

Good idea to remove it and clean it up first, just in case some grit is causing the threads to bind before fully clamping the subframe down tight.

 

Have you got a grinder? It's worth cutting two vertical notches a cm long into the first few threads, this will recut the threads and clean them out in the captive nut.

[was8v 0]

95lb ft, so a fair amount. Imagine giving a 2 foot torque wrench / breaker bar a firm push to tighten wheel bots, plus another 1/4 turn and I reckon that's about right.

 

Ok thanks - a fair bit tighter than i've been doing it, no wonder it comes loose. I have just worked this out too:

 

torque = force x distance    therefore    force = torque / distance

170nm / 0.3m (length of ratchet, 30cm) = 567N

since 1kg ~ 9.81n

567n / 9.81n ~ 57.8kg

So I have to imagine using the same force as picking my girlfriend up on the end of the ratchet......

 

Good idea to remove it and clean it up first, just in case some grit is causing the threads to bind before fully clamping the subframe down tight.

 

Have you got a grinder? It's worth cutting two vertical notches a cm long into the first few threads, this will recut the threads and clean them out in the captive nut.

 

Yes I've got a grinder, not sure i'd be brave enough to do this! Will give my pa a bell and see if he has any big taps.

[Purple Tom 0]

Just found this thread in a Google search for Seat Ibiza rack part numbers - it didn't come up in the normal forum search :lol:

 

I've made this post so it comes up in my 'view your posts' list for future reference :)