Jezza's G60..... 16vG60.....Turbo :-)

[junkie 0]

[i think the power you have is really good but what's probably the best thing about this engine is it can do the numbers and be a nice road car with a good spread of torque. It's not like so many engines you read about, I imagine were they get the numbers but they're a pig to drive smoothly, or daily should I say. Well done................... ye jammy git. :lol:

 

Im a jammy git too then, get the numbers and bloody brilliant to drive.

 

I would love to drive a nearly 300bhp 16vG60, probably way more fun then mine.

[CTWG60 0]

Im a jammy git too then, get the numbers and bloody brilliant to drive.

 

So you've changed that gearbox then! :D

[junkie 0]

Give me more credit than that of course not.

 

Going to try Santa pod with how my car should have been last year as it was not running right then change it to compare the difference for track based comparison.

[CTWG60 0]

Give me more credit than that of course not.

 

Going to try Santa pod with how my car should have been last year as it was not running right then change it to compare the difference for track based comparison.

 

Oh a bit of science hey! Be sure to let me know what happens, I might even see you there. :)

[flusted 0]

water/methanol doesnt just drop inlet temps it also helps to boost octane to even more timing can be added, im running it with my huge FMIC

[flusted 0]

how much boost you gettin? i tried mine round the block today with a 68mm pulley and it made 8psi?

[jezzaG60 0]

Yeah, i have used water/meth injection before, most recently on an R32 turbo. I just don't feel its necessary on this application.

8psi sounds quite low to me. Mine makes a solid 10psi pretty much through the whole rev range. Could be that you have a cam timing problem there. You want to be careful driving it round if you only have red top injectors in there, by my calculations they only have enough fuel for about 240bhp........ Do you have a wideband lambda connected up?

 

Oh, a few pics of the mess that is:

 

 

[boost monkey 0]

Flusted has a ported head, and Yan has already mentioned that he will see lower than expected boost pressure because of this, although expected power output would still be the same.

 

Loving the engine pics! :D

[dirtytorque 0]

Thnks for pics.

Looks purposeful and tidy. 8)

[jezzaG60 0]

Yes, a ported head will be less of a restriction and hence you will see a lower boost pressure. There comes a point when an engine is flowing well that pressures in the cylinder during induction will begin to match those in the manifold. At that point you need a bigger charger!!!

 

Right, another plot. This one looks a little confusing. The top 2 were some runs from yesterday, did the 2 because i remembered to change the trigger speed on the rollers so one of the plots shows what happens from 2k. The difference in the top 2 was a change in cam timing. You can see the torque curve has shifted down on the lower run.

The next plot down shows where i was at the other day with 268bhp

Put the bottom one on there just for a bit of interest. That was my car waaaay back before i pulled it all the bits to change the engine. Just an 8v with a few little bits and a 68mm pulley. How things have moved on!

 

[flusted 0]

thats brill to see the difference on th graph.

 

sorry to hi-jack your thread but mine doesnt have a ported head and its a 1.8. do you think red tops with 3bar is too low? its basicaly a standard kr with lowered compression running a 68mm pulley

[Yandards 0]

Interesting set of updates and shame about the power cut in the workshop.

 

I am still not sure if running a standard pulley with a more revs is better or worse than running a smaller pulley and shorter rev with this type of setup. If you increase the piston speed through a rev rise with a standard pulley it will definitely move the power furthur up but at the same time the loses through the charger scavenging will increase. Would be good to know if these make more with a standard pulley and 8.5k redline or with a smaller pulley and a top end of say 7k instead.

 

Also good to know that an increase in advance has a large impact on output too.

 

As a pie in the sky figure if a CNC 16v head is capable of 252bhp N/A and a supercharger provides an increase of around x1.4 then the therotical max out of the setup is 352bhp - that's all theory of course and with only a 1.8 block too. I am still impressed with BBMs stage 4 mod to the charger, it is suppossed to have been gas modelled for optimum flow and is CNC milled, probably less boost pressure but more CFM which is what really makes power anyway.

 

What comp ratio you running on the block?

[boost monkey 0]

Yan, less boost pressure will put less strain on the charger surely, and therefore be a good thing?

 

Mechanical mods (i.e. removing restrictive metal when porting a head) which are permanent and not (too) damaging to reliability seem to be the way forward!

[junkie 0]

Interesting graphs as the torque curve is very similar to mine.

[Yandards 0]

Interesting graphs as the torque curve is very similar to mine.

 

Yeah that is interesting indeed.

 

A turbo will overcome more of the restrictions inherant in the counterflow 8v head so that's probably where you get the extra from.

 

Monkey, not sure if the higher revs with the standard pulley will produce any extra go - the charger may still be reaching its pumping limit so you will only end up moving the power band up the rev range. I really dont know the answer to it hence the question. As for porting, as long as its done well then you should always see an improvment in engine efficiency through the larger port sizes and optimised flow.

[dirtytorque 0]

anybody there ???

 

:)

 

Hows it going mate?

All done?

[jezzaG60 0]

Yes its all up and running and has an MOT and Tax..... but its a long way from finished.

At the moment i've just been putting a few miles on it and ironing out any little snags as they come up.

I've still got more mapping work to do to improve economy and lean it out a little on cold start. Has so far been very smooth running and reliable. Power wise it seems to have hit a bit of a brick wall. Tried running it with the exhaust system disconnected after the down pipe and managed 290bhp.... so there is a little more there if i buy/make a larger system.

I'll stick up a few more pics when i'm at work and can get them off my camera.

 

Plan at the moment is to run it till after E38 and then i have a new plan for it...........

 

Not going to give much away about the engine but could be looking at 4wd and Haldex.......

 

If anyone knows of a syncro rear pan and suspension set up i could be very interested!

[dirtytorque 0]

Yes its all up and running and has an MOT and Tax..... but its a long way from finished.

At the moment i've just been putting a few miles on it and ironing out any little snags as they come up.

I've still got more mapping work to do to improve economy and lean it out a little on cold start. Has so far been very smooth running and reliable. Power wise it seems to have hit a bit of a brick wall. Tried running it with the exhaust system disconnected after the down pipe and managed 290bhp.... so there is a little more there if i buy/make a larger system.

I'll stick up a few more pics when i'm at work and can get them off my camera.

 

Plan at the moment is to run it till after E38 and then i have a new plan for it...........

 

Not going to give much away about the engine but could be looking at 4wd and Haldex.......

 

If anyone knows of a syncro rear pan and suspension set up i could be very interested!

 

A great project as it is but i understand that you would maybe want more. :salute:

 

With the MOT does the afr have to lean out to a given level after before X amount of time?

How long do they give you after cold starting to achieve said level?

Are you running at pretty much stoich at idle ?

 

i have to start thinking about my 1st MS MOT soon u see.

 

cheers.

[jezzaG60 0]

On MOT the car will be fully up to temp before they test the emissions. Most places will check the guage is up to temp or maybe that the fan has cut in and out.

As my car is a pre '92 then if doesn't have to pass the Cat based emissions. This means emissions levels are pretty relaxed, think your allowed 3.5% co at idle. My afr at idle is about 14:1, it doesn't idle so smoothly if i try to lean it out further. At that level the co was only about 1% anyway so i didn't have to make any adjustments for the MOT.

 

i have been surprised by how well the car puts the power down. I'm now back on my "summer" whels which are only 16's but with brand new 205 40 16 Yokohama Parada's. You have to be really mean to it to get it to break taction. A lot of this is down to the Peloquin i think but it does make Torque steer a bit of an issue. I think i'm just used to it (and i think i now have arms of steel!) but after letting my G/F drive it the other day and doing a few trips from one side of the road to the other under hard acceleration i'd say maybe it is a bit of a handful!!

[dirtytorque 0]

On MOT the car will be fully up to temp before they test the emissions. Most places will check the guage is up to temp or maybe that the fan has cut in and out.

As my car is a pre '92 then if doesn't have to pass the Cat based emissions. This means emissions levels are pretty relaxed, think your allowed 3.5% co at idle. My afr at idle is about 14:1, it doesn't idle so smoothly if i try to lean it out further. At that level the co was only about 1% anyway so i didn't have to make any adjustments for the MOT.

 

 

yeah things start to get a little ropey the closer I try and get it to 14.7.New slightly longer duration cam dosn't help.

At 14.7:1 it tends to wobble towards 15 and above.I'll aim for slightly richer and then get a smog test done.

Cheers.

I have been surprised by how well the car puts the power down. I'm now back on my "summer" wheels which are only 16's but with brand new 205 40 16 Yokohama Parada's. You have to be really mean to it to get it to break taction. A lot of this is down to the Peloquin i think but it does make Torque steer a bit of an issue. I think i'm just used to it (and i think i now have arms of steel!) but after letting my G/F drive it the other day and doing a few trips from one side of the road to the other under hard acceleration i'd say maybe it is a bit of a handful!!

 

what box are you using.

Is it a custom setup ?

[Walesy 0]

The box he's using is in his sig mate. Just got back from RKE, went out for a little pootle in the car and it has to be said, it's fecking savage :twisted: awesome machine, the noise it makes is enough to give you a stiffy let alone the power, 3rd and 4th gear were immense :eek: fantastic car :notworthy:

[jezzaG60 0]

Yeah, as Walesy said, the 'box is written in my sig.

Its a Factory re-con direct from VW out of a Mk4 Gti Turbo. I've added a Peloquin Diff and 5th gear from a Mk3 Tdi 'box.

This gives ratios similar to VR 1st and 2nd, 3rd close to the G60, a slightly shorter 4th (means i have great pull from 60-110 ish) and a long 5th which iirc does about 26mph/1000rpm....... and it may all be up for sale if i come across some suitable hadex gear!

 

Glad you enjoyed the ride Walesy...... its been a long time coming LOL

[JMC 0]

What a great project :notworthy: and good to see nice smooth dyno plots as well - sign of a well set up system 8)

[jezzaG60 0]

Well, after some more playing around it finally makes over 300bhp.

I've done a few mods but nothing really made a great deal of diffence to the performance.

I fitted water injection, i hoped that when running this with some methanol i'd be able to run some more ignition advance and make some more power. This just wasn't the case unfortuantely. I can advance the timing up a bit more with no det but there is no extra power to be had from it. I guess its given me a bit more of a safety margin (and it will come in useful for some later mods i have planned) but at these boost and compression levels it doesn't give any performance advantage. May have been a different story on a really hot day but as it is the large intercooler i have keeps chage temps around 18 degrees even on the dyno.

I have made a complete new exhaust system from the 4 branch back. I hoped this would pick up a few horses as i couldn't quite believe 2" system would flow enough for 300hp (well more than 300 if you think about it as the chager is probably pulling 20-30 on full chat)

Anyway, i know i need the bigger system for whats coming later but as things stand i didn't gain anything.

 

Did a couple of other small bits, ported the charger outlet and the throttle body. Actually got round to fitting a cold air feed and cutting away the airbox.

 

So, at the end of all that, most of the extra power came from playing around with induction kits! (see my reply on induction kits thread)

It seems the charger loves to have a large volume of free air to draw from, if i was playing about further i would be tempted to mod the charger inlet casing as bbm used to and bore the whole inlet side out to a larger volume.

 

Anyways, thats about that really, 300bhp is achievable from a G60. I'd love to have more time and money to throw at it and try more charger mods, a different 4 branch, a CNC head and maybe a higher compression ratio..... but that said i think i'd be lucking to see more than 10-20bhp more. It would also be nice to be brave/stupid/rich enough to try reving it a bit higher, but i think i'm in the region of pushing my luck as it is. Maybe i should go the dutch way and rev a 62mmm pulley to 8k! LOL :whistling:

 

I'll try and get a scan of the dyno run up later

[dirtytorque 0]

well done mate.

Some interesting observatios.

You've got balls of steel revving your grenade @ 7k on a 65mm pulley I must say. :D

 

Look forward to seeing your plot. :)

 

 

Whats it like on the road?

Hows it pull?